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AUDERE EST FACERE - NOW MORE THAN EVER

NaijaSpurs said:
I like Poch. And Poch built a great team. But he was here for 5 years and we won nothing. He also made the stupid decision of starting an obviously unfit Kane in the final of the CL. A mistake Ange would not be dumb enough to make.

As for Iraola, well, it is not that I think he is a bad manager, because I do not, I like him. However I would be concerned about sacking Ange who has just won as a European trophy for a manager who is is in a current streak of winning just 2 of 14 matches .
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I agree. When I saw that Son wasn't starting and Richarlison was instead. 2 people went up further in my estimates; Son and Ange. The choice of Kane to play ahead of Moura in that final was in my own opinion, wrong and demonstrated that players were not thinking of the team. Even that incident between Kane and Erikson on that goal left a bitter taste in my mouth.

On Iraola, he is unproven in Europe. I think it is 'grass is greener on the other side' syndrome.
 
afsoc4life said:
I would point you to Giannis', the basketballer. His response to a journalist best fits your post. We are too hung up with declaring seasons without trophies as failures rather than recognising that it is a journey. No team is guaranteed to win trophies every season. We should focus on continuing to do the right things in line with our strategy to achieve our purpose of being the best club. This week was a key milestone. I look forward to more. Each one of those managers played their own part in my opinion and I am grateful to them. Whatever the club decides to do, I am fine with it. And yes I am still 100% Ange IN. If you look at Spurs from 2000 and compare it to today, then you will agree with me that Levy's appointment of Santini has been like pushing off a domino stack. We have been improving since then.
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Do you not thing our league finishes dropping from 2nd/3rd to 17th over the course of 6 years is failure?
 
Gutter Boy said:
Have I been wrong though? Does anyone think any of Mourinho, Nuno, Conte or Ange were good appointments? Or that any of them have done anything other than cause us to regress? A handful of Paratici signings have been the only competent managerial actions of the past 5 years. Everything else has been decline.
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Eh?....Did you write this before 8pm on Wednesday?.
 
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Glenda's Legs said:
Here we go. Who needs fans of other clubs to put down our achievement when our own fans can do it so well. .
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not putting down the achievement but seeing it as it is. its better than no trophy but its not champions league.
its clear that finishing in champions league places means ineligibility to compete in the europa league.
yes we can happy but we cannot be satisfied. we need to be doing more, much more.
 
Gutter Boy said:
'Double pivot, full backs tuck in'. That was all we needed to do to win on wednesday. And maybe 10-15 league games that we lost too
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And yet remind me how many times we had a better team than Utd or another EPL side and all we had to do was beat them yet we crashed. For Spurs, I respect Pochettino and his record but I think bringing him up as a better manager than Ange who has had a weaker team and delivered a continental championship is strange.

Also consider the difference in team management especially our youths. As someone who loves youth development, I am very happy with how the club has handled it recently compared to the Poch days.
 
Gutter Boy said:
Coming a very close 2nd in both the league and CL is hardly not being equipped. Its the only time we've been at that level ever, other than 1960-2
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CL run was lucky, numerous times we got the bounce or the decision. Could easily have went out in the group stages, against city or ajax.
Were we close in the PL, we were second, but a few points behind.
 
afsoc4life said:
And yet remind me how many times we had a better team than Utd or another EPL side and all we had to do was beat them yet we crashed. For Spurs, I respect Pochettino and his record but I think bringing him up as a better manager than Ange who has had a weaker team and delivered a continental championship is strange.

Also consider the difference in team management especially our youths. As someone who loves youth development, I am very happy with how the club has handled it recently compared to the Poch days.
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Strange to say a manager who had us fighting for league titles and champions leagues is better than a manager who nearly got us relegated?
 
carl said:
Strange to say a manager who had us fighting for league titles and champions leagues is better than a manager who nearly got us relegated?
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Yes, it is strange to say that especially when you look at results and outcome. The team had serious injury problems this season which led Ange to prioritise winning a cup. He did that successfully in his SECOND season. That for me puts him top of the list. Let's see what happens in future.

On another note I support Inter as well - who is the better manager for the nerazzurri between Conte and Inzaghi?
 
thfcsteff said:
I actually practiced mindfulness and shut out all the noise and comments around me (to the point they weren't causing me to react) and fed back into my positive belief that this unit were going to get the job done. Whilst doing so, I acquieseced to the reality that we were also going to need a bit of luck; finals demand it. I genuinely thought Solanke was going to control and blast that pass home in the second-half. When it didn't, I still believed.

This unit -this very young unit- now knows how to get the job(s) done. IMO.
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I remember being on a training course a long time ago. One of those corporate ones where we were all being coached that you can only control what is ahead in life. However, if you project your negative experiences from the past onto your future, you don't break the cycle. You can end up in more failed products/projects etc.

The good news about our young squad is that they have experienced a trophy. I hope they think it is the norm. In fact, I hope they won't settle for just that. I'm not sure a single trophy will change an entire fan base belief system though. It definitely helps.

What our club needs most now is consistency. Life under Ange has been too much of a sin wave. Under Poch, you knew we would mostly win, but could obviously lose or draw. However, you knew that the team would be there or there about in every game. To get a belief system ingrained in the fans, the manager and players need to find that.
 
thfcsteff said:
This thread was specifically to have a discussion about whether us -fans, supporters - can unshackle ourselves from fear and fear of things going wrong, something I think has become an increasing issue in life generally, where it seems the race to assume negativity is getting faster, and the fear of a negative outcome from certain actions is increasingly projected.

It was not intended to be about the match specifically or the manager. It was certainly a questioned posed in light of things we learned from Wed night i.e. how to win, how the players have unshackled themselves from such negativity, and whether we can follow suit and believe on a more frequent basis.
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Sadly, it's a NO from Gutter :)


That said it takes all types and Gutter is consistent with his views. And this is life.
If he grates toooo much, there is an ignore button.

We all want that completely together 'Poch era' feeling....and maybe this is a step towards it.

It's a monkey off our back.
Something to shout about.
Sealing over wounds inflicted by others
Let them suffer for a while

Burn those stupid protest banners (they're incorrect now anyway)
EVERYONE at this club tries it's best.

Hopefully this is a sliding doors moment 🙏
 
Lost Mango said:
So Poch is allowed a free pass to prioritise and win nothing (FA Cup and League Cup beneath us/him?) because he had over ambitious targets but prioritising winning (and delivering) the Europa is still a cardinal sin for Ange?
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I think you are misrepresenting my point here . I have never been vitriolic towards Ange or denigrated his win on Wednesday. But I was answering the comments about Poch. The situations between Ange and Poch were entirely different. Ange didn't have to worry about the league this season. I have to assume Poch's targets were set by Levy and at that time the league was the priority.
 
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Lost Mango said:
So Poch is allowed a free pass to prioritise and win nothing (FA Cup and League Cup beneath us/him?) because he had over ambitious targets but prioritising winning (and delivering) the Europa is still a cardinal sin for Ange?

I'm one of the 35 who stayed as Ange In during the season but actually think he has taken as far as he can so would welcome a parting of the ways but some on here are so vitriolic against him it is ridiculous - "We won on Wednesday INSPITE of him" for example as if he had nothing to do with team or tactics selection.

Personally, I will be so disappointed if we go back to Poch but I won't hate on him at any point.
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If Ange does stay, I hope he finds some consistency on the pitch in this squad. He also needs to find some consistency in his messaging. He has brought a lot of this on himself by the things he has said publicly. He will continue to be fair game unless he controls that side of his role.
 
Muttley said:
I remember being on a training course a long time ago. One of those corporate ones where we were all being coached that you can only control what is ahead in life. However, if you project your negative experiences from the past onto your future, you don't break the cycle. You can end up in more failed products/projects etc.

The good news about our young squad is that they have experienced a trophy. I hope they think it is the norm. In fact, I hope they won't settle for just that. I'm not sure a single trophy will change an entire fan base belief system though. It definitely helps.

What our club needs most now is consistency. Life under Ange has been too much of a sin wave. Under Poch, you knew we would mostly win, but could obviously lose or draw. However, you knew that the team would be there or there about in every game. To get a belief system ingrained in the fans, the manager and players need to find that.
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Yup.

I wish people had given him that grace and understanding when he hit a sticky patch; instead, most people wanted him booted.
 
Muttley said:
If Ange does stay, I hope he finds some consistency on the pitch in this squad. He also needs to find some consistency in his messaging. He has brought a lot of this on himself by the things he has said publicly. He will continue to be fair game unless he controls that side of his role.
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What inconsistencies relating to media? I am happy with the way he handles the media, very happy. Fair game? What about people behave with decency and respect? In respect to squad, it will depend on injuries. The players seemed to have been very familiar with the defensive setups used in Europe suggesting it had been something they had been working on. I think Ange doesn't reveal his hand entirely and keeps some tricks up his sleeves.
 
afsoc4life said:
And yet remind me how many times we had a better team than Utd or another EPL side and all we had to do was beat them yet we crashed. For Spurs, I respect Pochettino and his record but I think bringing him up as a better manager than Ange who has had a weaker team and delivered a continental championship is strange.

Also consider the difference in team management especially our youths. As someone who loves youth development, I am very happy with how the club has handled it recently compared to the Poch days.
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Poch had no budget and no depth of squad. He certainly didn't have EL cup runs as he was mostly in the tougher CL competitions. We're in a cycle of huge investment in this playing squad. Nobody has had that aspect better than Ange in our history. To declare Ange is a better manager than Poch at this stage is premature for me. Not saying he can't end up there, but we need to see drastic improvements from him.
 
afsoc4life said:
I agree. When I saw that Son wasn't starting and Richarlison was instead. 2 people went up further in my estimates; Son and Ange. The choice of Kane to play ahead of Moura in that final was in my own opinion, wrong and demonstrated that players were not thinking of the team. Even that incident between Kane and Erikson on that goal left a bitter taste in my mouth.

On Iraola, he is unproven in Europe. I think it is 'grass is greener on the other side' syndrome.
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It's apples & oranges as Son is a shadow of his former self - Ange is known for rushing important players back from injury (see evidence this season and the quotes in the Athletic article from mid season that had quotes from physios that worked with him) so in similar circumstances he'd have not necessarily made the same decision.
 
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