AUDERE EST FACERE - NOW MORE THAN EVER

[glasgowspur]

I think you are misrepresenting my point here . I have never been vitriolic towards Ange or denigrated his win on Wednesday. But I was answering the comments about him. The situation between Ange and Poch were entirely different. Ange didn't have to worry about the league this season. I have to assume Poch's targets were set by Levy and at that time the league was the priority.

I think you're right and levy set the targets, but I think Poch agreed with them, hence the bond between them.
When Poch wanted to tweak the target the relationship deteriorated, like Jose Poch couldn't convince levy and it all fell apart.
Where it gets interesting for me is who or what convinced levy to change the targets in January.
He has learnt a life lesson?
Has someone or some group been able to do what neither Poch or Jose could?
Or is someone else making those calls?

The answers to that could be more important than what happens with the manager.

 

[tommysvr]

What inconsistencies relating to media? I am happy with the way he handles the media, very happy. Fair game? What about people behave with decency and respect? In respect to squad, it will depend on injuries. The players seemed to have been very familiar with the defensive setups used in Europe suggesting it had been something they had been working on. I think Ange doesn't reveal his hand entirely and keeps some tricks up his sleeves.

I read many posts on here saying us playing defensively in the Europa League was a sign of the players ignoring Ange's instructions and doing their own thing.

 

[K.D.D.D.D.Soc]

Sadly, it's a NO from Gutter


That said it takes all types and Gutter is consistent with his views. And this is life.
If he grates toooo much, there is an ignore button.

We all want that completely together 'Poch era' feeling....and maybe this is a step towards it.

It's a monkey off our back.
Something to shout about.
Sealing over wounds inflicted by others
Let them suffer for a while

Burn those stupid protest banners (they're incorrect now anyway)
EVERYONE at this club tries it's best.

Hopefully this is a sliding doors moment

Will the "Levy/ENIC out" mob boycott the parade?

 

[Mcfee]

He probably didn't have a choice.

Yes @Robspur12, I deleted my original post because as someone already said we’re heading into territory which has already been done to death.

 

[Gazza Dazzla]

I think you're right and levy set the targets, but I think Poch agreed with them, hence the bond between them.
When Poch wanted to tweak the target the relationship deteriorated, like Jose Poch couldn't convince levy and it all fell apart.
Where it gets interesting for me is who or what convinced levy to change the targets in January.
He has learnt a life lesson?
Has someone or some group been able to do what neither Poch or Jose could?
Or is someone else making those calls?

The answers to that could be more important than what happens with the manager.

We were so far away from where we wanted to be in the league by Jan that it’s a bit of a no brainer to concentrate on the easiest route to achieve something and that was the Europa.

We’ve never been so far off where we wanted to be in the league under those previous managers.

 

[thfcsteff]

Wow.

Again, I have to stress that my reason for starting this thread was not to debate managers, it was to discuss supporters, their roles, their prejudioces and baked in fearsm, and their abilities to either see Wednesday night and this group as the beginning of a new Tottenham era, or stay rooted in fears and past traumas? Essentially it comes down to how long we as supporters will insist on holding onto past Spurs traumas?

 

[afsoc4life]

Poch had no budget and no depth of squad. He certainly didn't have EL cup runs as he was mostly in the tougher CL competitions. We're in a cycle of huge investment in this playing squad. Nobody has had that aspect better than Ange in our history. To declare Ange is a better manager than Poch at this stage is premature for me. Not saying he can't end up there, but we need to see drastic improvements from him.

I do not agree with this. You forget the size of the Spurs squad when Poch came in. Pochettino made the call to shrink the squad. You forget the comments which I personally found worrying about us not finding players who were better than our players (I still find that gonads). I will give that at some point Pochettino didn't have funds but I don't know whose call that was. You forget the proven quality that Poch had access to - far more talent than this squad. Pochettino gave Spurs solid and good service. I will never take that from him as I had some fond memories but in terms of performance and squad management, Ange takes it especially comparing second seasons. I pray that Ange builds on from here and leads us to further glory.

 

[Grays_1890]

I think you're right and levy set the targets, but I think Poch agreed with them, hence the bond between them.
When Poch wanted to tweak the target the relationship deteriorated, like Jose Poch couldn't convince levy and it all fell apart.
Where it gets interesting for me is who or what convinced levy to change the targets in January.
He has learnt a life lesson?
Has someone or some group been able to do what neither Poch or Jose could?
Or is someone else making those calls?

The answers to that could be more important than what happens with the manager.

I think people make up their own rhetoric's on stuff though especially when it comes to Levy and Enic and now Ange. I will leave Ange out as I think he deserves the respect to lie on his sunlounger and take time in the sun.

But the fact we lost 7 SFs and 4 Finals in the time since our last win (I think those are correct as per a media interview yesterday) means we never prioritised one thing as much as people like to make out. Not being able to get over the line is FAR FAR FAR different to priority IMO.

Around that we made mistakes, like every club in footballing history which means people like to conflate the mistakes with the failures and jumble them all into the same thing, when in reality football doesn't work like that.

 

[Grays_1890]

Wow.

Again, I have to stress that my reason for starting this thread was not to debate managers, it was to discuss supporters, their roles, their prejudioces and baked in fearsm, and their abilities to either see Wednesday night and this group as the beginning of a new Tottenham era, or stay rooted in fears and past traumas? Essentially it comes down to how long we as supporters will insist on holding onto past Spurs traumas?

Agreed

The level of snipe and told you so's, even for me is hard to read...........live and let live for a few weeks people and bask in the glow of the cup

 

[Muttley]

What inconsistencies relating to media? I am happy with the way he handles the media, very happy. Fair game? What about people behave with decency and respect? In respect to squad, it will depend on injuries. The players seemed to have been very familiar with the defensive setups used in Europe suggesting it had been something they had been working on. I think Ange doesn't reveal his hand entirely and keeps some tricks up his sleeves.

For me, I just wish he would stop preaching. I've said from day 1 for him to focus on being a football manager and not a doctor of philosophy or life coach. He needs to earn that right in this environment. As for inconsistency, an example is how he told us all how Spurs need to play (e.g. Chelsea) and has backtracked (a good thing). I also don't appreciate it when he attacks journo's to evade answering the football questions they are asking. It's a technique that I see right through. There are many layers with Ange, and he plays the straight talking Aussie persona. He is anything but when you look closely.

I do appreciate media comms is as tough as it gets though for these guys. I also think you'll see him adapt that comm style in the next phase. He's left himself too open.

 

[afsoc4life]

Wow.

Again, I have to stress that my reason for starting this thread was not to debate managers, it was to discuss supporters, their roles, their prejudioces and baked in fearsm, and their abilities to either see Wednesday night and this group as the beginning of a new Tottenham era, or stay rooted in fears and past traumas? Essentially it comes down to how long we as supporters will insist on holding onto past Spurs traumas?

Fair point, I will stand down from that line of conversation.

 

[glasgowspur]

We were so far away from where we wanted to be in the league by Jan that it’s a bit of a no brainer to concentrate on the easiest route to achieve something and that was the Europa.

We’ve never been so far off where we wanted to be in the league under those previous managers.

And normally the manager would have been sacked, the EL has meant little to nothing for us.
It's been a distraction or an opportunity to play the stiffs or kids.
Has the CL place changed that?

 

[Grays_1890]

And normally the manager would have been sacked, the EL has meant little to nothing for us.
It's been a distraction or an opportunity to play the stiffs or kids.
Has the CL place changed that?

We were so deep and cut adrift it presented itself as a natural route. IMO

 

[Finney Is Back]

Have I been wrong though? Does anyone think any of Mourinho, Nuno, Conte or Ange were good appointments? Or that any of them have done anything other than cause us to regress? A handful of Paratici signings have been the only competent managerial actions of the past 5 years. Everything else has been decline.

Everything up until Ange yes….

 

[glasgowspur]

I think people make up their own rhetoric's on stuff though especially when it comes to Levy and Enic and now Ange. I will leave Ange out as I think he deserves the respect to lie on his sunlounger and take time in the sun.

But the fact we lost 7 SFs and 4 Finals in the time since our last win (I think those are correct as per a media interview yesterday) means we never prioritised one thing as much as people like to make out. Not being able to get over the line is FAR FAR FAR different to priority IMO.

Around that we made mistakes, like every club in footballing history which means people like to conflate the mistakes with the failures and jumble them all into the same thing, when in reality football doesn't work like that.

We certainly do, I always try to remind myself that I have no clue what is happening and any theories I come up with are pure speculation.

 

[glasgowspur]

We were so deep and cut adrift it presented itself as a natural route. IMO

But with ange?

 

[carl]

Yes, it is strange to say that especially when you look at results and outcome. The team had serious injury problems this season which led Ange to prioritise winning a cup. He did that successfully in his SECOND season. That for me puts him top of the list. Let's see what happens in future.

On another note I support Inter as well - who is the better manager for the nerazzurri between Conte and Inzaghi?

Not sure as I don't really follow Italian football but what I do know (or believe) is should the Inter job come up, Poch would have a much higher chance of getting the job than Ange.

 

[Muttley]

I do not agree with this. You forget the size of the Spurs squad when Poch came in. Pochettino made the call to shrink the squad. You forget the comments which I personally found worrying about us not finding players who were better than our players (I still find that gonads). I will give that at some point Pochettino didn't have funds but I don't know whose call that was. You forget the proven quality that Poch had access to - far more talent than this squad. Pochettino gave Spurs solid and good service. I will never take that from him as I had some fond memories but in terms of performance and squad management, Ange takes it especially comparing second seasons. I pray that Ange builds on from here and leads us to further glory.

Poch had a very good 14 or 15 players. Within that he also had some absolute gems. He also knew how to improve it in the market but had no budget and a recruitment team that couldn't close a door. He also had his new signings delivered late impacting all of his pre-season preparations which were massive for his philosophy. Therefore the squad was burnt out eventually. He did some amazing things when he first joined as he scrubbed through a massively bloated squad and got it rightsized. I never blamed him at all for the big push back on signing more mediocrity. He made a stand on what was happening. What's also interesting is that there has only ever been one player's name leaked (Tielemans) that we may have not pursued. Even then, no guarantee he would have joined. Everyone likes to say that Poch declined players, but nobody can give credible names that we actually could have got that would have improved us.

There is still a part of me that wonders what may happen if he operated in the post stadium world at Spurs. It's a different beast nowadays.

 

[Muttley]

Fair point, I will stand down from that line of conversation.

Guilty as charged. Me too.

 

[Grays_1890]

We certainly do, I always try to remind myself that I have no clue what is happening and any theories I come up with are pure speculation.

Same but I do believe in the fact as history presents itself with the fact, those that are performing better in the league have more chances and generally win things more than those that don't.

I think the idea being universally touted on here as much as the "ohhh did I mention we sacked Jose before a final" that we never won things because we were top 4 and in the CL is utter tosh. We didn't cross the finish line, in the week we did, thats cup final football

Anyhooo, Its Friday, its a sunny day and we are cup winners baby............