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Archie Gray

Surfless said:
I have to say this one feels like one of paratici's "have a list for each position and if one comes up for a good price, act"

I'm not saying we didn't want him but I suspect it was all a bit last ditch as Leeds realised they couldn't shift enough debt via other players. Let's be honest ignoring Rodon going the other way, this is a steal for someone so highly rated.
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£40m is a good price that just came up?
 
spurspinter1 said:
It's not necessarily fair to hold it against Archie Gray but I was hoping we'd just buy the finished product in this position.

For the 2nd half of the season it barely mattered who started in midfield, they'd end up playing badly and Ange would shift things around at half time, then the following game he'd start the one he left out and they'd have a poor 1st half etc etc

I don't think anyone at that time was screaming "If only we a flashy hot prospect from the Swedish league or an up and coming championship player, that'd immediately solve our midfield woes". Both look like excellent additions in the long term but do we expect either to steady the ship for next season? If the only movement is losing PEH and gaining these two then we're looking a bit short still imo. Between the trio of Biss, Bentancur and Sarr, reliable and consistent are not adjectives that would come up a lot going by last season; that's possibly unfair on Sarr but age isn't an excuse of we buy young players, it's our choice to do so.

The hope is that Gray can make the step up a la Dele and like a fair few others I haven't seen enough of him to make a prediction on that. Plenty to like about this signing, English and able to cover (possibly thrive) in our RB hybrid position as well so my concerns above aren't bitching about him but we are looking a bit bereft of quality combined with experience imo. Players like Sarr and Gray should probably be learning from the best and who we have currently aren't the best.
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I can see the perspective but I'd make a few points to consider

- It's really £25M +Rodon, not quite Richi levels of spend
- Championship young player of season is an interesting list (see below)

CYPS.JPG

Ange spent way more on Johnson last season, and clearly wanted/played him

This is clearly a strategy of the club now

THFC u23.JPG

To @Surfless comment, I don't think this was random, I think the only thing that made it feel like a reaction is the fact that Brentford tried for him.

If we lose PEH & Lo Celso, basically the only senior players we will have are Son, Romero & Davies, so I would like to see a more senior head come in to help mentor but I feel this is a little like the Poch era

- We have a style and a coach that requires complete buy in on system and the legs to do it all season, younger players tend to fit that model better.

And I know we sometimes all feel like we have seen this movie before, I genuinely don't think we are buying players for the first squad that Ange isn't 100% on board with.
 
Surfless said:
I have to say this one feels like one of paratici's "have a list for each position and if one comes up for a good price, act"

I'm not saying we didn't want him but I suspect it was all a bit last ditch as Leeds realised they couldn't shift enough debt via other players. Let's be honest ignoring Rodon going the other way, this is a steal for someone so highly rated.
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We all knew we needed a DM more than any position. And we've not really been linked with any other than Gallagher and the guy at Atalanta. So i think this was always on the cards - we just needed the pressure of the 1st deadline day.

I actually think some of our other business was dependent on this - i.e. if we had to fall back to the Atalanta guy as 2nd choice, maybe we'd've needed a homegrown LB or CF etc. But now we can go overseas on them
 
Ali Gold has just made the point that if we do sign Gray we have a ready made deputy to a Porro as well as a CM. He's played at Rb for Leeds, albeit in the championship, and with his being a midfielder by nature it will suit him advancing into midfield from fullback.

So now Milan can have Emerson Royal and we get £17m or thereabouts for another square peg in an Ange hole.
 
Surfless said:
Ali Gold has just made the point that if we do sign Gray we have a ready made deputy to a Porro as well as a CM. He's played at Rb for Leeds, albeit in the championship, and with his being a midfielder by nature it will suit him advancing into midfield from fullback.

So now Milan can have Emerson Royal and we get £17m or thereabouts for another square peg in an Ange hole.
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Plagiarism! I wrote that in the 2nd post of this thread
 
Raziel said:
I can see the perspective but I'd make a few points to consider

- It's really £25M +Rodon, not quite Richi levels of spend
- Championship young player of season is an interesting list (see below)

View attachment 17330

Ange spent way more on Johnson last season, and clearly wanted/played him

This is clearly a strategy of the club now

View attachment 17331

To @Surfless comment, I don't think this was random, I think the only thing that made it feel like a reaction is the fact that Brentford tried for him.

If we lose PEH & Lo Celso, basically the only senior players we will have are Son, Romero & Davies, so I would like to see a more senior head come in to help mentor but I feel this is a little like the Poch era

- We have a style and a coach that requires complete buy in on system and the legs to do it all season, younger players tend to fit that model better.

And I know we sometimes all feel like we have seen this movie before, I genuinely don't think we are buying players for the first squad that Ange isn't 100% on board with.
Click to expand...

It's always a nice feeling to have young talented players and I do hope that Ange is the guy to build it in to something notable. It just depends if it is all we do on that area (which I think was Jerusalem's point). If the only other movement there is PEH leaving I think the lack of experience is a fair concern but I completely get that it's early days.

It's a problem position (or at least a position we need to improve on), and expecting / hoping for an 18 year old from the championship to come and fix it is a big ol' ask.

Johnson is an interesting one, great numbers and hopefully much more to come from him. Big impact in small moments kind of player. He hasn't set the world on fire in terms of his impact on games as a whole but it's a promising first season but Kulu looks a bit out of place on that flank but that's another topic.

Solid last paragraph in your post btw, that's probably the best way to look at it.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
One will cover and play DM
The other will cover and play Sarrs role
I guess
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I would have thought broadly:

#4 - Bissouma, Gray (+ Skipp)
#8 - Sarr, Bentancur
#10 - Maddison, Bergvall (+ Kulu)

With Gray also covering RB and Kulu also RWF, that seems about the right number.

Basically Gray replaces Hojbjerg and Bergvall replaces Lo Celso.
 
Gutter Boy said:
I would have thought broadly:

#4 - Bissouma, Gray (+ Skipp)
#8 - Sarr, Bentancur
#10 - Maddison, Bergvall (+ Kulu)

With Gray also covering RB and Kulu also RWF, that seems about the right number.

Basically Gray replaces Hojbjerg and Bergvall replaces Lo Celso.
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Feels that way
Would still need a right side and CF
 
Quite excited by Udogie and Gray. They could be the base of midfield for years to come (when in possession).

It’s a tidy sum for a player who is still growing. Only just 18. But fits the Ange setup on paper - can play right back and midfield. Highly talented and sought after, he’s a bit of a coup.

Royal, Spence (and Rodon) fees should cover most of the cash outlay. And we upgrade the technical ability with a player who seems made for Ange ball.
 
SpurMeUp said:
Quite excited by Udogie and Gray. They could be the base of midfield for years to come (when in possession).

It’s a tidy sum for a player who is still growing. Only just 18. But fits the Ange setup on paper - can play right back and midfield. Highly talented and sought after, he’s a bit of a coup.

Royal, Spence (and Rodon) fees should cover most of the cash outlay. And we upgrade the technical ability with a player who seems made for Ange ball.
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Udogie in midfield?
 
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