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Antonio Conte - officially NOT the coach of THFC

alekaras said:
As I said, I do not have the stats from his Juve days. I'm just looking at those from his Chelsea and Inter days and they don't tell the story of dominant teams, but rather ones with a significant element of luck. But since he is undoubtedly a good manager, as you say, why can't he do with Spurs what he did at Bari or Siena? I doubt he got all the players he wanted there. He had to do with what he had. Maybe if we had gotten the earlier version of Conte, the results would have been different. That was a more adaptable Conte, who may have gotten the best out of this squad. Even the Chelsea Conte adapted. But it seems to me that, after the success he has had, he has become entrenched in his tactics and approach and is unwilling to budge. His success has gotten to his head and that's never a good thing, nor what Spurs need.
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What did he achieve at Bari and Siena that he hasn't achieved here ie moderate success in relation to realistic ambition. I'd agree he is beyond boneheadedly stubborn with his tactics
 
alekaras said:
Has he really done so much better with other teams? I don't have the stats from his Juve and Sienna years, but the titles he won with Chelsea and Inter were more the result of having been lucky than having set up a team that outperformed other teams week in and week out.

In my opinion, Conte is a great manager when all the stars align for him. I think with Spurs he has been found out. Watch his next couple of managerial appointments and mark my words. If he doesn't take over a team with unlimited cash, he is not going to win another title.
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Yeah, unlike Pochettino, who didn't do anything special before or after managing Spurs. That won't deter people from demanding he's hired back to 'work his magic'. Quite frankly, the bolded sentence is true for 99% of managers. Ancelotti didn't win the league with Everton either. There's only so much you can do from the bench.
 
Kandi1977 said:
https://twitter.com/x/status/1637581938197159937
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You can't compare the two. Poch wasn't backed. Conte has been backed. So Conte's comments ring a bit hollow.

Poch had performed as well as any manager could have and made these comments to push the club to get to the next level. His comments were genuine and had much more gravitas because of what he had already achieved at Spurs. Conte is just covering his ass by rehashing stuff that he knows many fans will agree with and to deflect any blame from himself.
 
alekaras said:
You can't compare the two. Poch wasn't backed. Conte has been backed. So Conte's comments ring a bit hollow.

Poch had performed as well as any manager could have and made these comments to push the club to get to the next level. His comments were genuine and had much more gravitas because of what he had already achieved at Spurs. Conte is just covering his ass by rehashing stuff that he knows many fans will agree with and to deflect any blame from himself.
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It's also whataboutism ..

There is a whole other conversation about the club, what we should be aiming for, what the ownership should/shouldn't do.

Conceding more goals than anyone above 13th, more than clubs in the relegation zone, more than Palace who just fired their manager, is way more than "oh, what you expect with Dier in defense"
 
Raziel said:
It's also whataboutism ..

There is a whole other conversation about the club, what we should be aiming for, what the ownership should/shouldn't do.

Conceding more goals than anyone above 13th, more than clubs in the relegation zone, more than Palace who just fired their manager, is way more than "oh, what you expect with Dier in defense"
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Poch also nearly won the league twice with alot less....I get that we won nothing before someone starts again but FML, people trying to make out that Poch was worse than he was whilsy defending Conte who availed of the crown jewels in finance that came because Poch navigated through the quagmire of a move and limited money need a head check
 
Grays_1890 said:
Poch also nearly won the league twice with alot less....I get that we won nothing before someone starts again but FML, people trying to make out that Poch was worse than he was whilsy defending Conte who availed of the crown jewels in finance that came because Poch navigated through the quagmire of a move and limited money need a head check
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Alot less? He had one of the best and balanced teams in the Premier league for atleast 2 seasons. We talk as if he never did the exact thing Conte and Mourinho did in not dropping out of form players, making subs after the inevitable happened and bottling big games tactically.
 
Yiddo said:
Alot less? He had one of the best and balanced teams in the Premier league for atleast 2 seasons. We talk as if he never did the exact thing Conte and Mourinho did in not dropping out of form players, making subs after the inevitable happened and bottling big games tactically.
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What games did he bottle? He made some dodgy decisions (Son at LB being the most obvious) but people need to remember that not once in any of those semi finals were we the favourites or expected to win. Not once were we favourites for the league and we were barely mentioned as potential champions by pundits.

Poch probably should have done better on some of the big occasions but what he did to get us there was incredible. And people talk as if we were serial chokers in those games when we weren’t expected to win and we weren’t throwing away leads.
 
Yiddo said:
Alot less? He had one of the best and balanced teams in the Premier league for atleast 2 seasons. We talk as if he never did the exact thing Conte and Mourinho did in not dropping out of form players, making subs after the inevitable happened and bottling big games tactically.
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Substantially less yeh

Considering you constantly drone on about spend as the key driver for success I would expect you to know that

He moulded a team and his tactics and high press was a huge contributing factor to the football we played when he was here



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DeanoAustin said:
What games did he bottle? He made some dodgy decisions (Son at LB being the most obvious) but people need to remember that not once in any of those semi finals were we the favourites or expected to win. Not once were we favourites for the league and we were barely mentioned as potential champions by pundits.

Poch probably should have done better on some of the big occasions but what he did to get us there was incredible. And people talk as if we were serial chokers in those games when we weren’t expected to win and we weren’t throwing away leads.
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Champions League final, Liverpool were there for the taking and everyone knew Moura should have started.

Answer me this, would Conte have won the league with the team Poch had?
 
Grays_1890 said:
Substantially less yeh

Considering you constantly drone on about spend as the key driver for success I would expect you to know that

He moulded a team and his tactics and high press was a huge contributing factor to the football we played when he was here



Sent from my SM-A127F using Fapatalk
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He had the best team in the league and Conte / Mourinho would have won something with the same team.
 
Yiddo said:
He had the best team in the league and Conte / Mourinho would have won something with the same team.
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Which was built and coached into shape with ALOT less money than both managers had to spend

Look at his first team versus those teams you are rating

Not sure how hard that is to understand

As I say, you constantly go on about how much should be spent so you clearly think money is king at clubs....based on your own standards they had alot more to work with



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DeanoAustin said:
What games did he bottle? He made some dodgy decisions (Son at LB being the most obvious) but people need to remember that not once in any of those semi finals were we the favourites or expected to win. Not once were we favourites for the league and we were barely mentioned as potential champions by pundits.

Poch probably should have done better on some of the big occasions but what he did to get us there was incredible. And people talk as if we were serial chokers in those games when we weren’t expected to win and we weren’t throwing away leads.
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Not sure if bottled is the correct word and I’m not sure who were favourites but collectively we really should have beaten Man U in the 2018 FA Cup semifinal. Ok 1-2 gives the semblance of being close but the truth is we gave up a 1-0 lead too easily and offered nothing for the last half hour of the game. That game will always stick in my mind as the turning point in the Poch era. Not saying Poch was to blame but we had enough experience by that point to start winning these type of games.
 
Yiddo said:
Champions League final, Liverpool were there for the taking and everyone knew Moura should have started.

Answer me this, would Conte have won the league with the team Poch had?
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Liverpool were strong favourites for that game. There was an argument to play Moura, a strong one, but it would have been madness not to play Kane. It really would and it was less of a factor than people assume. On Moura, despite his heroics in the semi final, his output before and afterwards has been poor. Would you really have had confidence in him scoring in that game? In fact, when he came on, he had one very presentable chance that he scuffed and Alisson saved.

As for Conte winning the league with Poch's team. Who knows? It is far from a certainty. Who would he have played in his back 3 during the 15/16 season? Where would Dele have fit into his team? Would he have been patient with Sonny who had a very slow start? How would he have managed some of the injuries because, while the team was strong, the squad wasn't.
 
Mcfee said:
Not sure if bottled is the correct word and I’m not sure who were favourites but collectively we really should have beaten Man U in the 2018 FA Cup semifinal. Ok 1-2 gives the semblance of being close but the truth is we gave up a 1-0 lead too easily and offered nothing for the last half hour of the game. That game will always stick in my mind as the turning point in the Poch era. Not saying Poch was to blame but we had enough experience by that point to start winning these type of games.
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I think it was close enough in terms of who were favourites but I'd agree, that's the one I thought we should be winning and didn't. But losing 2-1 to United isn't bottling a game. It's just losing a game.

And what turned it was Pogba muscling the immovable Dembele off the ball to set up the equaliser. Of course, there was a lot more to the loss than just one incident and you're correct on the last 30 mins.
 
Yiddo said:
He had the best team in the league and Conte / Mourinho would have won something with the same team.
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He didn't have the best squad though, beyond the first 11 there was a huge drop off.
Conte/Mourinho would never had that team to start with because they wouldn't have developed the players like Poch did. They would've been too busy complaining about everyone else instead of doing what Poch did, develop players and build a team.
 
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