Robspur12
Nick Barmby
Only because he doesn't strike me as long term rebuilding manager more of a short term all or nothing manager.
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Antonio Conte - officially NOT the coach of THFC
- Thread starter Daisuk
- Start date
Have you read the article above showing his interview with the Italian news outlet? It provides an argument against that from the man itself and to the fact he is a chequebook manager. If we work with Conte positively, he will be here a lot longer than the original contract by the way he is talking. I’d give him the keys to Spurs for as long as he wants if we are able to….
Robspur12
Nick Barmby
I hope you are right mate but I don’t have a good feeling about this. Just a gut instinct nothing else. Most managers will speak positively at the start of a new job. For all the criticism of Jose he had a positive and instant impact after taking over from Poch. When Harry took over from Ramos the same. At the moment we don’t look much different from the Nuno debacle.
I can’t argue with your gut feeling, anyone would be stupid not to follow their gut. Personally I have a different feeling and think @thfcsteff makes a great point about Conte speaking honestly about this group is exactly what we need as there is no hiding place for these players or indeed Levy in providing Conte with the personnel required. The last game was the only one under Contes tenure I would consider poor, and that was in the main with our squad players that most already knew weren’t up to the job and it’s good that Conte has now seen for himself. I think there have been some positives in his other games, and there will be a lot more by the end of the season. Let’s see….
90sSpursBook
Erik Edman
I also have some reservations - not because I don't think Conte is an outstanding coach still in the peak of his managerial career - just that he isn't the right solution to the problem, or at least the size of the problem that we find ourselves in.
Nominally Chelsea were the 10th best team in the country when he took over - and then within 12 months had won the league with a then record points haul. The reality is that Chelsea had badly underperformed in 2015/16 (ironically because of the mess Mourinho had left them in) and were probably the 4th best team around at the time. That summer they signed Kante - the best midfielder of his type around.
For me Conte is the manager you bring in when you're the third best squad and you want to top the league. In theory this is what Levy thought he was doing appointing Mourinho in 2019.
Reading Conte's comments I get the feeling that he didnt realise just how much we had regressed since 2018 and I'm convinced that Levy is either in denial or deluded - the mood music he would have heard from Levy (via Paratici) is "this is the best stadium in the world, you'll be working at the best training ground in the world and a squad with 3 world class players just a few tweaks, and some good coaching away from the Champions League".
Conte has quickly realised that this is somewhere between the 6th and 10th best squad which is badly balanced and contains several players who shouldn't be there or don't want to be there.
He's clearly very determined; he's also very energetic and will back his abilities to turn things around but my fear is that as time goes on and he's not consistently backed in transfer windows he'll soon lose that enthusiasm and ultimately will realise this is a job not suited to his strengths.
Nominally Chelsea were the 10th best team in the country when he took over - and then within 12 months had won the league with a then record points haul. The reality is that Chelsea had badly underperformed in 2015/16 (ironically because of the mess Mourinho had left them in) and were probably the 4th best team around at the time. That summer they signed Kante - the best midfielder of his type around.
For me Conte is the manager you bring in when you're the third best squad and you want to top the league. In theory this is what Levy thought he was doing appointing Mourinho in 2019.
Reading Conte's comments I get the feeling that he didnt realise just how much we had regressed since 2018 and I'm convinced that Levy is either in denial or deluded - the mood music he would have heard from Levy (via Paratici) is "this is the best stadium in the world, you'll be working at the best training ground in the world and a squad with 3 world class players just a few tweaks, and some good coaching away from the Champions League".
Conte has quickly realised that this is somewhere between the 6th and 10th best squad which is badly balanced and contains several players who shouldn't be there or don't want to be there.
He's clearly very determined; he's also very energetic and will back his abilities to turn things around but my fear is that as time goes on and he's not consistently backed in transfer windows he'll soon lose that enthusiasm and ultimately will realise this is a job not suited to his strengths.
thfcsteff
George Hunt
I think he will achieve top 4 this season providing he gets two to three key players. If AC Milan go out of the CL, we need to go all in for Kessie IMO.
90sSpursBook
Erik Edman
I firmly believe that Conte will get us outperforming against our level of ability. Equally I agree that he force Levy (via Paratici) out of his comfort zone in the transfer market.
That said I think we're the 8th best squad in the PL and even with his 10% added value that will only get us to 6th. Fourth, I hate to say, is well beyond us this squad.
Good post and your closing paragraph I think is spot on. If in the next 2 windows we're don't spend the cash we get from selling Ndomele, Dele, Doherty, Sanchez, Rodon plus say £80m-£100m on top, so perhaps spending £160m-£200m in total...then I think he'd go.
And given the current markets, plus with a lot of European league still having ground closures, if we spend that sort of £160m-£200m amount we should be able to get 5-6 decent players (say one at £60m, 2 @ £40m, 2 @ £20m and a freebie). Paratici did well last summer with the likes of Romero, Gil, Royal, Sarr etc so I'd back him to spend it well
If we're not prepared to back Conte like that, then we need to bring in a long-term project manager like Scott Parker and accept it'll be closer to 10 years than 5 years before we're back in the CL
Do you really believe that Conte didn't do his homework and had a very good idea about the players and the squad at his disposal?
He was approached at the end of last season and I'm sure was in frequent contact with Paratici after that so would've been looking at the squad and games.
Conte wouldn't have come without some guarantees and I doubt very much Levy is either in denial or deluded. I'd say Levy is well aware that the squad isn't
good enough and that recruitment has been really poor for a few years. It seems to me that his plan from the start was to get Paratici and Conte and the
only reason he would do that is if he isn't happy with recruitment and he feels an overhaul of the squad is needed alongside a top manager to get the best
out of them.
A lot have the view that Conte is just a chequebook manager that comes in, buys expensive player, wins in a year or two and leaves. It's not the truth. He's only
ever both two expensive players in Lukaku and Morata with the rest either moderately priced or cheap. I think him and Paratici will work together and overhaul
the squad and it was the plan from the start.
Robspur12
Nick Barmby
He spent £350 million in 2 seasons at Chelsea and £280 million at Inter Milan according to transfrmarkt. He spends a lot of money but with it brings success. I don't think he will be able to do so at Spurs which is part of the reason I think he is the wrong guy for what we need now.
He spent about 160m net at Inter over 2 seasons and something similar at Chelsea (Chelsea sold Costa and Oscar for good money when he was there). This is within our budget and nowhere near what City and Utd are spending.
Bedfordspurs
Mark Falco
He adds value to players too
thfcsteff
George Hunt
I think he will do it only because he has two of the best forwards in Europe and they will drag us over the line, plus AFCON will help us massively. He will improve the defence, indeed, when Davies and Dier play in his system there is promise of real solidity.
Robspur12
Nick Barmby
Transfer spend alone doesn’t determine success and net spend imho is only an indicator of how well you balance the books (he still spent huge amounts of transfer money at both Chelsea and Inter to build those sides). Crucially building a strong team is a combination of transfer spend and wages on offer. Because of our constraints on wage spend we have tended to overspend on transfers for lesser quality players. Until we are willing to spend more on wages I am not sure we will bring in the better players we need to compete with the big 4/5 clubs.
hmmmm only to a point. We pay players up to around £200k pw. Liverpool's top earner is on £220k pw.
https://www.spotrac.com/epl/liverpool-fc/payroll/
So we can be competitive and an individual player level however we've not paid the squad in total close to top teams. We have been increasing this though and I'd expect that to continue in coming windows
Related point but how much are we going to have to subsidise Tubby's wages for any club which takes him?!? 200k p.w. for that lump of lard
Wages usually are closely linked to what the transfer cost is. Ndombele is our biggest transfer and he's one of our highest earners. So no, we haven't overspent on our transfers because of our wages.
There are plenty of quality players out there that won't break the bank, that's hopefully were Paratici comes in.
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Armchair Expert
Vedran Corluka
Conte speaking out against the players was a relief and is at least 3 years overdue. Hopefully that will be the end of the ludicrous line the club has been holding that we have a talented group of players for the right manager to work with. Most of the players are brick and finally it’s been said publicly.
It’s been excruciating watching us lose to pub sides in basically every euro match we’ve played outside the champions league over the past seasons. Something has to give and thank heavens Conte called it.
The malaise can be seen in the fact that Dier - who, when we were good - was regarded as abysmal, is now rested as part of the first team. The XI on the pitch are miles off. Conte is hopefully the man to ram that fact sown Levy’s throat.
Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app
It’s been excruciating watching us lose to pub sides in basically every euro match we’ve played outside the champions league over the past seasons. Something has to give and thank heavens Conte called it.
The malaise can be seen in the fact that Dier - who, when we were good - was regarded as abysmal, is now rested as part of the first team. The XI on the pitch are miles off. Conte is hopefully the man to ram that fact sown Levy’s throat.
Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app
I doubt AFCON will happen with this new strain of Covid…..
BrainOfLevy
Michael Carrick
I started watching the Juve All or Nothing today - I wonder if people will agree with me that it feels very different to the Spurs one. Clearly different clubs, different histories etc. But what is clear is that everyone in that club is utterly obsessed with winning. Nothing is good enough. Absolute dedication to winning.
Ours just feels all a bit too nice. I think Sherwood had it right. Our players are too nice with each other. I don’t think it’s just laziness. I think as Conte has noted, there is talent and there is a desire to work hard. There is not enough of the ruthless desire to win. It’s probably why Kane has decided he’s had enough. It’s good to have a family atmosphere, and maybe our club has to be that way because we have less money, and we need to offer something as the incentive to be at Spurs. But the feeling of the two squads is very different from this Amazon insight. Our players will definitely get tinkled off if a game is not going well, but you can tell the Juve players and staff are utterly obsessed, and you don’t get that sense with ours.
Maybe Poch was the right manager for us, because he’s a family guy, and he played the role of dad. And I know he did a lot of work in helping players not be too comfortable with each other. I think he said something once about enjoying seeing Walker-Peters give Eriksen a rocket for a misplaced pass - and we needed more of that. Less of being nice with each other. Less of being in awe of our better players. But I think under Poch everyone was unified around building something, fighting against the machine, and it worked when we had mostly young players making their way. Now we have signed more expensive players on bigger wages, and I think we need the club to be orientated in a different way.
I hope Paratici brings this, and I hope Conte does too. I think we need a whole mentality shift. And I think it does mean letting players go when they’ve come to the end of their life. Someone like Dele - I will always love him. He has given me so many great memories. And no doubt he worked hard this summer to get back into shape and show he wanted it. But maybe he needs a move, and maybe we need him to move. We have to show this is a place where the only standard is to win and be exceptional, and that we aren’t just going to stick by someone because we like them, because they are part of the family. It’s harsh, but I think it needs to be done.
I wonder if anyone else who has watched the Juve doc agrees with me. It just feels different. And I think we need more of that.
Ours just feels all a bit too nice. I think Sherwood had it right. Our players are too nice with each other. I don’t think it’s just laziness. I think as Conte has noted, there is talent and there is a desire to work hard. There is not enough of the ruthless desire to win. It’s probably why Kane has decided he’s had enough. It’s good to have a family atmosphere, and maybe our club has to be that way because we have less money, and we need to offer something as the incentive to be at Spurs. But the feeling of the two squads is very different from this Amazon insight. Our players will definitely get tinkled off if a game is not going well, but you can tell the Juve players and staff are utterly obsessed, and you don’t get that sense with ours.
Maybe Poch was the right manager for us, because he’s a family guy, and he played the role of dad. And I know he did a lot of work in helping players not be too comfortable with each other. I think he said something once about enjoying seeing Walker-Peters give Eriksen a rocket for a misplaced pass - and we needed more of that. Less of being nice with each other. Less of being in awe of our better players. But I think under Poch everyone was unified around building something, fighting against the machine, and it worked when we had mostly young players making their way. Now we have signed more expensive players on bigger wages, and I think we need the club to be orientated in a different way.
I hope Paratici brings this, and I hope Conte does too. I think we need a whole mentality shift. And I think it does mean letting players go when they’ve come to the end of their life. Someone like Dele - I will always love him. He has given me so many great memories. And no doubt he worked hard this summer to get back into shape and show he wanted it. But maybe he needs a move, and maybe we need him to move. We have to show this is a place where the only standard is to win and be exceptional, and that we aren’t just going to stick by someone because we like them, because they are part of the family. It’s harsh, but I think it needs to be done.
I wonder if anyone else who has watched the Juve doc agrees with me. It just feels different. And I think we need more of that.