Antonio Conte - officially NOT the coach of THFC

[SteveAWOL]

Feels like such a very long time ago that we had a team which everyone feared rather than mocked

Aside from Son it seems that every other position in team is now weaker than that prime Poch period; as Kane’s ankle injuries have reduced his mobility, Lloris is in the twilight of his career, Dele is a pale shadow of his former self and everyone else has been replaced with inferior players.

 

[harr1984]

It is possible that both the managers weren't good enough and several players aren't good enough, it isn't a case of either/or.
Reguillon has come out and send it was the worst few days of his life training under Conte. Dier has said it's like going back to the double sessions under Poch.
That's damning of the training sessions under Mourinho and Nuno. It was obvious that the fitness levels had dropped since Poch and that the players didn't
have a clue what was expected from them attacking wise.

That doesn't mean there aren't glaring weakness in several areas with players needing to be replaced. I don't think we have the players to play Contes system at the moment.
The WBs aren't good enough going forward and the balance isn't right in midfield (a long term problem). It may take a couple of windows to sort out but I do believe if Conte
and Paratici are given time and support they will get it right.

Yup, but the point is we have just had an identical performance in Europe to what we had under both Nuno and against higher level Europa League teams with Mourinho in Europe and the manager took the flak and massive abuse. Conte comes in and we get the exact same performance during what is meant to be the honeymoon period and it’s ‘Oh, it’s clear the players need to go.’ Yes we are getting fitter, and yet still that performance is served up - and as has been mentioned already not every team is about having supreme fitness, there are several ways to skin a cat and Contes intense style isn’t the only way - although I’m certainly excited to see it.

It was obvious under Jose the players needed upgrading, yet we didn’t. Then posters were full of how we were going to be playing great football again now the ‘dinosaur’ had left the building. Yet the same problem has occurred again and again. I admit when Poch left, I thought he was the problem and looked burnt out. But when Jose wasn’t getting a tune out of them it was obvious there was a big issue with the players - because like or loathe him the one thing he is good at is improving the mentality of players, and it was no coincidence that the top class Son and Kane excelled whilst the majority showed themselves up time and time again to be weak. Mourinho and especially Nuno were never likely to be massive hits at Spurs, but it has been obvious that they are not the real problem…..

 

[fernadez]

I love it when people think they were a lone voice of reason on here

I think if we got the managerial appointment post Poch correct we'd have likely seen a lot of that squad stay on and move forward with the new manager, with us progressing on the pitch - however with 2 more years of further regression & stagnation on the pitch because of poor decisions at the top and it has become a self fulfilling prophecy

Players were brick in his last year though. Been flogged to death.

 

[parklane1]

THESE PLAYERS JUST AREN’T GOOD ENOUGH!

You could have a management team of Guardiola, Clough, Klopp, Ferguson, Nicholson and Burkinshaw in charge and this bang average, mentally weak lot would still find new ways to fudge it up.

I really don’t understand what some people need to see before they believe that.

Quite a few of us have been saying that for several years now but as you say there are those who have put the blame firmly on the manager/s head.

 

[DubSpur]

Yup, but the point is we have just had an identical performance in Europe to what we had under both Nuno and against higher level Europa League teams with Mourinho in Europe and the manager took the flak and massive abuse. Conte comes in and we get the exact same performance during what is meant to be the honeymoon period and it’s ‘Oh, it’s clear the players need to go.’ Yes we are getting fitter, and yet still that performance is served up - and as has been mentioned already not every team is about having supreme fitness, there are several ways to skin a cat and Contes intense style isn’t the only way - although I’m certainly excited to see it.

It was obvious under Jose the players needed upgrading, yet we didn’t. Then posters were full of how we were going to be playing great football again now the ‘dinosaur’ had left the building. Yet the same problem has occurred again and again. I admit when Poch left, I thought he was the problem and looked burnt out. But when Jose wasn’t getting a tune out of them it was obvious there was a big issue with the players - because like or loathe him the one thing he is good at is improving the mentality of players, and it was no coincidence that the top class Son and Kane excelled whilst the majority showed themselves up time and time again to be weak. Mourinho and especially Nuno were never likely to be massive hits at Spurs, but it has been obvious that they are not the real problem…..

Fitness is important for any sport and we are way off where we should be. Look at the top teams and it can be seen that they had a higher workrate and more sprints than we have had over the last 2-3 years. Conte is only in the door and has a lot of work to do to undo the lack of coaching since Poch left. So yes, he's going to get time before getting criticism.
As when Poch joined at the start, he's trying to implement a style of play and at least that can be seen unlike with Jose (bar park the bus) and Nuno. It will lead to improvement.
As I said already the squad isn't good enough in several areas and definitely depth wise, but the previous two managers were also part of the problem.
The quickest one to fix was the manager and that's been done. Next step will be seeing Paratici and Conte sorting out the player problems.

 

[markysimmo]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1464537686602137605

 

[90sSpursBook]

Yup, but the point is we have just had an identical performance in Europe to what we had under both Nuno and against higher level Europa League teams with Mourinho in Europe and the manager took the flak and massive abuse. Conte comes in and we get the exact same performance during what is meant to be the honeymoon period and it’s ‘Oh, it’s clear the players need to go.’

#

If you'll indulge me and look at the post in the match thread I'd suggest that crap performances in europa extend way beyond Mourinho. Ever since we first qualified for the CL in 2010 our attitude (as a club) to europa/europa conference has stunk of indifference and arrogance.

 

[Gazza Dazzla]

Feels like such a very long time ago that we had a team which everyone feared rather than mocked

Aside from Son it seems that every other position in team is now weaker than that prime Poch period; as Kane’s ankle injuries have reduced his mobility, Lloris is in the twilight of his career, Dele is a pale shadow of his former self and everyone else has been replaced with inferior players.

View attachment 13186

Ridiculous team that!

 

[90sSpursBook]

I'm sure that Conte had done his due diligence but I do worry that the club push the 'real estate angle' a bit too much - constantly talking up the facilities at the training ground and stadium.
As Poch famously said (and I paraphrase) its no point having the gorgeous mansion without having any furniture to go in it.

 

[Gazza Dazzla]

#

If you'll indulge me and look at the post in the match thread I'd suggest that crap performances in europa extend way beyond Mourinho. Ever since we first qualified for the CL in 2010 our attitude (as a club) to europa/europa conference has stunk of indifference and arrogance.

100% Agreed. It’s as if winning trophies is beneath these players!

 

[90sSpursBook]

Feels like such a very long time ago that we had a team which everyone feared rather than mocked

Aside from Son it seems that every other position in team is now weaker than that prime Poch period; as Kane’s ankle injuries have reduced his mobility, Lloris is in the twilight of his career, Dele is a pale shadow of his former self and everyone else has been replaced with inferior players.

View attachment 13186

FYI....we went on to lose this game 0-1 at Man Utd (Dec 2016) who were managed by.....

 

[90sSpursBook]

100% Agreed. It’s as if winning trophies is beneath these players!

Can extend that to domestic cups too....since 2018 we've had wobbles at lower league opponents - Newport (draw), Rochdale (draw), Colchester (lost on pens), Middlesbrough (draw). Prior to that we consistently swatted aside lower league opponents.

 

[FolkestoneSpur]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1464537686602137605

That's a really good interview, I like him more and more and this
" I totally put my heart and soul into the club I'm working for. Faithful to that all blacks motto: "Leave the shirt better than how you found it" I have always left houses with well-built foundations, where others after me have had the oppotunity to continue to win, some more, some less, that is not pressumption that is facts"

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Can extend that to domestic cups too....since 2018 we've had wobbles at lower league opponents - Newport (draw), Rochdale (draw), Colchester (lost on pens), Middlesbrough (draw). Prior to that we consistently swatted aside lower league opponents.

This is actually really interesting. I was thinking it with the Europa qualifying results / performances under Jose. He did start calling it out, saying something to the effect of it is cold, the players have had to travel a long way, and they don’t look like they are into it.

I wonder if since the players have had a taste of the Champions League that they consider everything else beneath them? We have put in way too many atrocious performances against lower ranked teams in the last 2-3 years that it does speak to something more. Under 4 different managers now, of all different styles of play and motivational methods. I’m sure we may have lost the odd game in the UEFA under Jol or Ramos but I don’t remember as many consistently embarrassing performances - I feel like we’d turn up to some random European country and usually fully deserve a win.

 

[Spoonman]

#

If you'll indulge me and look at the post in the match thread I'd suggest that crap performances in europa extend way beyond Mourinho. Ever since we first qualified for the CL in 2010 our attitude (as a club) to europa/europa conference has stunk of indifference and arrogance.

This is spot on. I posted similar in an earlier match thread.

Our record in the Europa league is appalling. 1 quarter final and 2 or 3 last 16 ties since 2007 I think. Given we have generally been one of the top 6 or 7 sides competing in it, it's a joke. In that time Middlesbrough and Fulham have both reached the final along with the more obvious United, Chelsea and Arsenal.

We seem to fare better in the CL against better teams. Go figure.

 

[Finney Is Back]

Yup, but the point is we have just had an identical performance in Europe to what we had under both Nuno and against higher level Europa League teams with Mourinho in Europe and the manager took the flak and massive abuse. Conte comes in and we get the exact same performance during what is meant to be the honeymoon period and it’s ‘Oh, it’s clear the players need to go.’ Yes we are getting fitter, and yet still that performance is served up - and as has been mentioned already not every team is about having supreme fitness, there are several ways to skin a cat and Contes intense style isn’t the only way - although I’m certainly excited to see it.

It was obvious under Jose the players needed upgrading, yet we didn’t. Then posters were full of how we were going to be playing great football again now the ‘dinosaur’ had left the building. Yet the same problem has occurred again and again. I admit when Poch left, I thought he was the problem and looked burnt out. But when Jose wasn’t getting a tune out of them it was obvious there was a big issue with the players - because like or loathe him the one thing he is good at is improving the mentality of players, and it was no coincidence that the top class Son and Kane excelled whilst the majority showed themselves up time and time again to be weak. Mourinho and especially Nuno were never likely to be massive hits at Spurs, but it has been obvious that they are not the real problem…..

I think many of those who wanted rid of Jose never wanted him in the first place. We wasted a significant amount of playing budget sacking Pochettino and have subsequently wasted significant amounts of playing budget sacking Jose (bad fit for us anyway) and Nuno (bad fit for us anyway). The problem at this club is higher up than whoever the manager happens to be.

 

[Mikey10]

It is possible that both the managers weren't good enough and several players aren't good enough, it isn't a case of either/or.
Reguillon has come out and send it was the worst few days of his life training under Conte. Dier has said it's like going back to the double sessions under Poch.
That's damning of the training sessions under Mourinho and Nuno. It was obvious that the fitness levels had dropped since Poch and that the players didn't
have a clue what was expected from them attacking wise.

That doesn't mean there aren't glaring weakness in several areas with players needing to be replaced. I don't think we have the players to play Contes system at the moment.
The WBs aren't good enough going forward and the balance isn't right in midfield (a long term problem). It may take a couple of windows to sort out but I do believe if Conte
and Paratici are given time and support they will get it right.

The problem with this argument is that they were also bloody awful for the last 12 months under Poch (bar the CL run), and many in the squad ended up bitching about his methods too.

 

[DubSpur]

The problem with this argument is that they were also bloody awful for the last 12 months under Poch (bar the CL run), and many in the squad ended up bitching about his methods too.

How is it a prob with the argument that it wasn't just the down to the managers or the players but both were an issue?
Poch was burnt out in his last 12 months and the deterioration of the squad started under him with some really poor buys and distancing himself from the squad.

Levy made two bad mistakes with the appointments of Mourinho and Nuno. The squad is not as strong as it was and that is compounded by two bad
management appointments that didn't coach the team to the levels that prime Poch did and now Conte is doing.

 

[Robspur12]

You don’t think Poch agreed with the signing of Lo Celso then? Did Poch want either/or or both?
My point is that people are still going on about Poch’s call for a painful rebuild like if we’d listened at the time everything would be ok. The reality is the rebuild has been going on for several seasons but the evidence so far suggests we’ve bought poorly. Poch doesn’t get a free pass on that imo.

Poch does get a free pass as far as the rebuilding goes because he only worked with the players he bought for 3 months. In those 3 months Ndombele looked an exciting but unfit player, Lo Celso and Sessegnon were both injured. You cannot buy players for a manager, sack him then say the players he bought in to fit his system are a disaster because they don't fit the way another manager wants to play. That's why it's better to have a DOF and a clear transfer plan.

Lo Celso was pretty good under Mourinho which is why he signed him permanently.

As for Mourinho, he started well, funny enough better than Conte has started imo. I was so excited when we signed Bale right up to that disastrous WHAM game at home when they came back from 3-0 down, genuinely thought we could do something special until that point . But by the end he and Sacramento looked completely lost, Jose started his blaming antics and by the end it was right that he had to go. Although I wouldn't have sacked him the week before a cup final.

The Harry saga has clearly not helped the squad morale and or Harry's performances, he needs to go now. Lo Celso has gone backwards and Ndombele is looking more and more of a luxury player. Dele needs to move on now too, think he has been wasted by playing out of position and Son is showing his usual streaky form. We havent replaced Eriksen and we need to think about life post Kane.

So the squad is in a bad position and I am not sure Conte is the man to do the rebuild we need at this point. I've said before, just signing a big name manager doesn't solve the club's problems. Unless there is a drastic change I think we will struggle this season. Perhaps things will look better if we sign a playmaker in January. That really is the key at the moment.

 

[DubSpur]

So the squad is in a bad position and I am not sure Conte is the man to do the rebuild we need at this point. I've said before, just signing a big name manager doesn't solve the club's problems. Unless there is a drastic change I think we will struggle this season. Perhaps things will look better if we sign a playmaker in January. That really is the key at the moment.

Why do you not think Conte is the man for a rebuild?