Antonio Conte - officially NOT the coach of THFC

[Grays_1890]

I'm not sure I understand the equivalency here. You seem to be conflating that Bayern can afford to hire any manager, because they're the biggest team in Germany, with Gallardo winning with River, because it's the biggest team in Argentina. Those are two different things.

Regardless, do you really think that because Bayern is by far the biggest team in Germany, they're just going to appoint anyone? Nagelsmann was considered a top manager before they appointed him. We would have been ecstatic had we landed him.

And River is not as dominant in Argentina as you think. Since 2000 they have won 5 league titles out of 39, what with the Apertura and Clausura being considered a league title.

Exactly, the bulk of Rivers titles won way before he managed them, yeh they won a bulk of leagues but the last time they won a hatful was in the 90s, and with a real mixed bag of winners recently it shows what that leagues all about.

Its a much more competitive league in the modern game than many of the Europeans

Hasn't he won a hat full of other cups out there? Is that not what its all about?

 

[Lilbaz]

I'm not sure I understand the equivalency here. You seem to be conflating that Bayern can afford to hire any manager, because they're the biggest team in Germany, with Gallardo winning with River, because it's the biggest team in Argentina. Those are two different things.

Regardless, do you really think that because Bayern is by far the biggest team in Germany, they're just going to appoint anyone? Nagelsmann was considered a top manager before they appointed him. We would have been ecstatic had we landed him.

And River is not as dominant in Argentina as you think. Since 2000 they have won 5 league titles out of 39, what with the Apertura and Clausura being considered a league title.

No i'm saying, if klopp and naglesman had been at byern for 8 years. They would have been expected to win more trophies, than they did at Leipzig and dortmund.

 

[Lilbaz]

Exactly, the bulk of Rivers titles won way before he managed them, yeh they won a bulk of leagues but the last time they won a hatful was in the 90s, and with a real mixed bag of winners recently it shows what that leagues all about.

Its a much more competitive league in the modern game than many of the Europeans

Hasn't he won a hat full of other cups out there? Is that not what its all about?

They were league champions when he took over.

 

[alekaras]

No i'm saying, if klopp and naglesman had been at byern for 8 years. They would have been expected to win more trophies, than they did at Leipzig and dortmund.

Yes, but Bayern and River of the last 20-25 years are not even close to being equivalent. So it's comparing apples and oranges.

 

[Lilbaz]

Yes, but Bayern and River of the last 20-25 years are not even close to being equivalent. So it's comparing apples and oranges.

I'm not saying he's a bad manager. Just don't understand what the fuss is. Over those 8 years you'd expect river to be winning trophies. They're the most supported team in the americas.

 

[Grays_1890]

They were league champions when he took over.

And when you look at the multiple champions they have had since it tells a story. As does the fact he has won 5 equivalents to the EC and the ECL among other trophies, I don't know a huge amount about him, nor do I have much of an opinion about a link to us, but to dismiss that record when you consider the powers there are in that region is slightly short IMO

Anyway thats my two pence worth

On the title subject I think we are highly likely to need to find a new gaffer come the summer

 

[Lilbaz]

And when you look at the multiple champions they have had since it tells a story. As does the fact he has won 5 equivalents to the EC and the ECL among other trophies, I don't know a huge amount about him, nor do I have much of an opinion about a link to us, but to dismiss that record when you consider the powers there are in that region is slightly short IMO

Anyway thats my two pence worth

On the title subject I think we are highly likely to need to find a new gaffer come the summer

My question is, has he achieved something that poch or another manager couldn't have, being river plates manager for 8 years? What makes him so special?

 

[alekaras]

I'm not saying he's a bad manager. Just don't understand what the fuss is. Over those 8 years you'd expect river to be winning trophies. They're the most supported team in the americas.

Well, I guess we will find out what all the fuss is in the coming years. As for trophies, he won the league once, finished 2nd twice, 3rd and 4th once,won the Libertadores twice, and 3 Copas Argentinas. Including some of the minor trophies, he won 14 in total over 8 years. We would have settled for one!

 

[alekaras]

My question is, has he achieved something that poch or another manager couldn't have, being river plates manager for 8 years? What makes him so special?

Again, you are assuming River in Argentina in the past 20-25 years is equivalent to Bayern in Germany, or PSG in France. It's not. More like Liverpool in the PL: great history, but no achievements recently, at least until Klopp took over. He's essentially River's Klopp, with a better record.

 

[Lilbaz]

Well, I guess we will find out what all the fuss is in the coming years. As for trophies, he won the league once, finished 2nd twice, 3rd and 4th once,won the Libertadores twice, and 3 Copas Argentinas. Including some of the minor trophies, he won 14 in total over 8 years. We would have settled for one!

As i said above though, is that better than other coaches could achieve with them?

If it is great, if he has overachieved with the team brilliant.

But you look at ibarra, has a better win rate. Yes over only one season but won the league in that season.

As i said i don't know what the fuss is. Lots of people mention gallardo. I just want someone to explain why he stands out?

 

[Lilbaz]

Again, you are assuming River in Argentina in the past 20-25 years is equivalent to Bayern in Germany, or PSG in France. It's not. More like Liverpool in the PL: great history, but no achievements recently, at least until Klopp took over. He's essentially River's Klopp, with a better record.

They were champions when he took over. Not liverpool who hadn't won the league in 20 years.

 

[Lemonade Money]

My question is, has he achieved something that poch or another manager couldn't have, being river plates manager for 8 years? What makes him so special?

If their fans are anything like ours, lasting 8 years for a start.

 

[Grays_1890]

My question is, has he achieved something that poch or another manager couldn't have, being river plates manager for 8 years? What makes him so special?

5 Continental titles in 8 years puts him in an Elite field in his job in a hotly competitive region in its own right. Argentina is not the two team league its being made out to be either, recent history tells you that either

47 years old, 8 years at River and 14 trophies, with all due respect, if other could do it they would have, that can't be discounted easily TBH.

The questions you level could easily be applied to many an elite manager in Europe TBH, within his own right he is one of the elite managers within South America

 

[Lilbaz]

5 Continental titles in 8 years puts him in an Elite field in his job in a hotly competitive region in its own right. Argentina is not the two team league its being made out to be either, recent history tells you that either

47 years old, 8 years at River and 14 trophies, with all due respect, if other could do it they would have, that can't be discounted easily TBH.

The questions you level could easily be applied to many an elite manager in Europe TBH, within his own right he is one of the elite managers within South America

Is that better than abel ferreira? Been manager at palmeiras since 2020. Won 2 copa libertadores. The brazilian leage. The brazilian cup. The recopa. The supercopa. Runner up in the world club cup...

Please don't get me wrong. I haven't said once gallardo isn't good or even great. Just don't get why so many spurs fans keep mentioning him.

I have no problem if he is our choice.

 

[Diamond Lights]

Brighton will go fourth if they win all their games in hand and are a home win against Grimsby away from the semi-finals of the FA Cup.

Immense failure on our part, and specifically on our management team given the squad depth at our disposal. Lose tonight, he absolutely has to go.

 

[Grays_1890]

Is that better than abel ferreira? Been manager at palmeiras since 2020. Won 2 copa libertadores. The brazilian leage. The brazilian cup. The recopa. The supercopa. Runner up in the world club cup...

Who said it was? I have not compared him to anyone else just given him credit on his own merit. But you highlighting another manager from another country winning the Copa Liberadores just proves how competitive the region is and that 5 regional titles in 8 years is not to be sniffed at.

He can only do what he can do where he is

 

[Lilbaz]

Who said it was? I have not compared him to anyone else just given him credit on his own merit. But you highlighting another manager from another country winning the Copa Liberadores just proves how competitive the region is and that 5 regional titles in 8 years is not to be sniffed at.

He can only do what he can do where he is

I'm not saying it's to be sniffed at and not knocking his achievements. But his name keeps coming up when there is manager talk. Why him above others? Why is his name so fashionable? When there are others from south america that seem to have achieved similar in a lot less time?

 

[Grays_1890]

I'm not saying it's to be sniffed at and not knocking his achievements. But his name keeps coming up when there is manager talk. Why him above others? Why is his name so fashionable? When there are others from south america that seem to have achieved similar in a lot less time?

Because I imagine people use the Argentine link with and post Poch and that someone like Simone despite polarising (rightly in my opinion) came out the same region I suppose he is seen as a prospect for any club, and why not? You yourself have said previously that there are elite managers and we are unlikely to get them, so you look at the best of the rest and his name would certainly be on a list of 10 if not shorter. I could take or leave the link, just talking about it as its come up in conversation today but looking at him, the same question marks that surround him surround plenty others IMHO,

 

[Lilbaz]

Because I imagine people use the Argentine link with and post Poch and that someone like Simone despite polarising (rightly in my opinion) came out the same region I suppose he is seen as a prospect for any club, and why not? You yourself have said previously that there are elite managers and we are unlikely to get them, so you look at the best of the rest and his name would certainly be on a list of 10 if not shorter. I could take or leave the link, just talking about it as its come up in conversation today but looking at him, the same question marks that surround him surround plenty others IMHO,

Fair enough and i agree.

Personally if conte does leave would like someone that does have some prem experience though. Although the argentine league is pretty tough.

If he does come in, great i would be fully behind him.

 

[elltrev]

Surprised to see so many posts saying Conte 'has to go' if we lose tonight. I'd expect to hear that if we were languishing in mid-table, and/or if Conte had disrupted a recent history of regularly winning trophies. But we haven't won a trophy in 15 years, and we're currently on track for 67 points, which is 4th best in the league (the teams behind us aren't all likely to win all their games in hand). Not brilliant, but better than the 59 and 62 points that we got in the two seasons before Conte.

Now I'm not saying things are great - we've gone backwards since last season, despite what seemed at the time like a decent summer window. So I'm certainly not satisfied with how we're performing under Conte. But I don't understand why people think he 'has to go'? Is it about more than just the results? Is it also how boring we are to watch, and/or the uncertainty around his contract? (Both valid reasons IMO!)