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Antonio Conte - officially NOT the coach of THFC

Gazza said:
The past is not in anyway linked to Conte, that's our history not his. There is one consistent factor in all of those appointments but I'm not going to say who for good or bad reasons.
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True...our past is not linked to Conte, but our future (and his immediate one) will be directly effected by him..so the conditions he works under will be key in determining both
billyiddo said:
This was not the case. Very mixed response among the fanbase and it was widely considered a risky move by those outside after the way he left his last couple of jobs.

I have my doubts about Conte and his suitability to the task at hand but to compare this appointment to when we hired Jose and Ramos is wide of the mark - this is unquestionably the biggest on-paper managerial appointment the club has ever made (might need to caveat that with in the modern era) - read somewhere else someone put it like this : of the non money doped clubs who would you have expected Conte to rock up to next? Barca/Real/United etc - that's the level of appointment we've just pulled off.
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I agree that we have indeed employed on paper our biggest ever managerial appointment in the modern era (at least in the PL era).

However, Jose was that at the time, even with the fact that he was past his best and this is still a risky move given the way Conte typically operates (quick expensive building of squads, blaming ‘lack of support’ when things go wrong etc) and the way we typically operate (not known to be decisive in transfer market when we go up against clubs of similar money or status, not known to get transfers done in the way a Conte or Jose would like, believe in using youth/academy to build/supplement squads etc). Unless we are REALLY going to change how we do things as a club it’s another risky move given how we’ve spoken about the ‘club’s DNA’ and the fact it’s known we prefer a manager who can both handle/attract top stars but also coach and mould younger players.
If we are honest we will have to acknowledge that Conte overall is a chequebook manager who has fallen out with his previous clubs over the issue of buying more and more players (see the sheer number at Inter). At Chelsea it’s easy to forget how many second string players were bought that hardly played or were outright duds (Bakayoko, Zappacosta, Barkley, Emerson etc).
We of course will acknowledge that he is a better coach and man-manager than Jose.

However, the likes of Pep, Klopp and maybe even Tuchel all seem like squad builders for the long-term in comparison to Conte. Hence my hesitation to go overboard with any excitement just yet, though again I acknowledge again that on paper this is quite a coup of an appointment.

For now, I’m just excited and looking forward to the games on Thursday and Sunday to see what immediate impact Conte might have.

Looking further forwards, as I’ve said, we will have to change how we have typically operated for this to work and imo we’ll know whether we really have changed on 1st February 2022 in the same way we (imo) got an idea on 1st February 2020..
 
glorygloryeze said:
True...our past is not linked to Conte, but our future (and his immediate one) will be directly effected by him..so the conditions he works under will be key in determining both


I agree that we have indeed employed on paper our biggest ever managerial appointment in the modern era (at least in the PL era).

However, Jose was that at the time, even with the fact that he was past his best and this is still a risky move given the way Conte typically operates (quick expensive building of squads, blaming ‘lack of support’ when things go wrong etc) and the way we typically operate (not known to be decisive in transfer market when we go up against clubs of similar money or status, not known to get transfers done in the way a Conte or Jose would like, believe in using youth/academy to build/supplement squads etc). Unless we are REALLY going to change how we do things as a club it’s another risky move given how we’ve spoken about the ‘club’s DNA’ and the fact it’s known we prefer a manager who can both handle/attract top stars but also coach and mould younger players.
If we are honest we will have to acknowledge that Conte overall is a chequebook manager who has fallen out with his previous clubs over the issue of buying more and more players (see the sheer number at Inter). At Chelsea it’s easy to forget how many second string players were bought that hardly played or were outright duds (Bakayoko, Zappacosta, Barkley, Emerson etc).
We of course will acknowledge that he is a better coach and man-manager than Jose.

However, the likes of Pep, Klopp and maybe even Tuchel all seem like squad builders for the long-term in comparison to Conte. Hence my hesitation to go overboard with any excitement just yet, though again I acknowledge again that on paper this is quite a coup of an appointment.

For now, I’m just excited and looking forward to the games on Thursday and Sunday to see what immediate impact Conte might have.

Looking further forwards, as I’ve said, we will have to change how we have typically operated for this to work and imo we’ll know whether we really have changed on 1st February 2022 in the same way we (imo) got an idea on 1st February 2020..
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I can't see how you can say that Pep is a long term squad builder, How many defenders has he gone through? Tuchel was at PSG for 2 years and Dortmund for 2 years before that.

All three of the managers you've mentioned has spent just as much as him. There was a stat showing that Conte's spend per point is the 2nd lowest of top managers.

I'm sure that his first season in Italy with Inter his spend was low as they were broke. Look at his transfer incomings during his Inter reign. Not much different to our spending.
 
fernadez said:
I can't see how you can say that Pep is a long term squad builder, How many defenders has he gone through? Tuchel was at PSG for 2 years and Dortmund for 2 years before that.

All three of the managers you've mentioned has spent just as much as him. There was a stat showing that Conte's spend per point is the 2nd lowest of top managers.

I'm sure that his first season in Italy with Inter his spend was low as they were broke. Look at his transfer incomings during his Inter reign. Not much different to our spending.
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Pep is a spoilt spender, ys, but he leaves a squad that is young and can be picked up and moulded by whoever follows him. Similar with Klopp and Tuchel imo.
I'm sure if you look at Conte's buys at Inter several of them were what we'd class as older has-beens that, yes, he moulded into a very good side but you have to remember the state they are in now is partly because they strived to satisfy him constantly. His record in Europe with Inter certainly didn't reflect the spending for example. So again what he does can come at a big cost further down the line.

As i say, i'm not trying to be totally down on the appointment, just highlighting the pitfalls and the fact that WE will have to change our ways for it to work on the terms Conte usually works...
 
glorygloryeze said:
Pep is a spoilt spender, ys, but he leaves a squad that is young and can be picked up and moulded by whoever follows him. Similar with Klopp and Tuchel imo.
I'm sure if you look at Conte's buys at Inter several of them were what we'd class as older has-beens that, yes, he moulded into a very good side but you have to remember the state they are in now is partly because they strived to satisfy him constantly. His record in Europe with Inter certainly didn't reflect the spending for example. So again what he does can come at a big cost further down the line.

As i say, i'm not trying to be totally down on the appointment, just highlighting the pitfalls and the fact that WE will have to change our ways for it to work on the terms Conte usually works...
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Klopp and Tuchel both came from Dortmund. Their whole philosophy is to buy young and sell for a high price. Dortmund constantly have to rebuild. Liverpool's team now is aging. Front 3 all over 30. Throughout the team there are players in their later 20's.
Pep's last squad at Barca had Puyol, Xavi, Villa, Iniesta, Valdes, Masch. He's never built or rebuilt a young team in his career.

I'm not even saying Conte is a guaranteed success. However some of the things being used to point out why he might not be don't ring true to me. If anything he's a better fit for us than some of the other elite managers he's being compared to.
 
fernadez said:
Klopp and Tuchel both came from Dortmund. Their whole philosophy is to buy young and sell for a high price. Dortmund constantly have to rebuild. Liverpool's team now is aging. Front 3 all over 30. Throughout the team there are players in their later 20's.
Pep's last squad at Barca had Puyol, Xavi, Villa, Iniesta, Valdes, Masch. He's never built or rebuilt a young team in his career.

I'm not even saying Conte is a guaranteed success. However some of the things being used to point out why he might not be don't ring true to me. If anything he's a better fit for us than some of the other elite managers he's being compared to.
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Overall, the issue is actually US...are WE a good fit for Conte??
 
glorygloryeze said:
True...our past is not linked to Conte, but our future (and his immediate one) will be directly effected by him..so the conditions he works under will be key in determining both


I agree that we have indeed employed on paper our biggest ever managerial appointment in the modern era (at least in the PL era).

However, Jose was that at the time, even with the fact that he was past his best and this is still a risky move given the way Conte typically operates (quick expensive building of squads, blaming ‘lack of support’ when things go wrong etc) and the way we typically operate (not known to be decisive in transfer market when we go up against clubs of similar money or status, not known to get transfers done in the way a Conte or Jose would like, believe in using youth/academy to build/supplement squads etc). Unless we are REALLY going to change how we do things as a club it’s another risky move given how we’ve spoken about the ‘club’s DNA’ and the fact it’s known we prefer a manager who can both handle/attract top stars but also coach and mould younger players.
If we are honest we will have to acknowledge that Conte overall is a chequebook manager who has fallen out with his previous clubs over the issue of buying more and more players (see the sheer number at Inter). At Chelsea it’s easy to forget how many second string players were bought that hardly played or were outright duds (Bakayoko, Zappacosta, Barkley, Emerson etc).
We of course will acknowledge that he is a better coach and man-manager than Jose.

However, the likes of Pep, Klopp and maybe even Tuchel all seem like squad builders for the long-term in comparison to Conte. Hence my hesitation to go overboard with any excitement just yet, though again I acknowledge again that on paper this is quite a coup of an appointment.

For now, I’m just excited and looking forward to the games on Thursday and Sunday to see what immediate impact Conte might have.

Looking further forwards, as I’ve said, we will have to change how we have typically operated for this to work and imo we’ll know whether we really have changed on 1st February 2022 in the same way we (imo) got an idea on 1st February 2020..
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Have you got evidence conte is a checkbook manager? Simon jordan read out some stats this morning, contes average net spend in the last 5 years is £46m a season. Yes we might have to fork out a bit more as we need a lot of work. But if levy gives paratici the budget and lets them get on with it, i don't see why it can't work now.
Agree that he isn't a project manager. Or hasn't been so far. But if he can get us back in cl, i don't care.
 
Lilbaz said:
Have you got evidence conte is a checkbook manager? Simon jordan read out some stats this morning, contes average net spend in the last 5 years is £46m a season. Yes we might have to fork out a bit more as we need a lot of work. But if levy gives paratici the budget and lets them get on with it, i don't see why it can't work now.
Agree that he isn't a project manager. Or hasn't been so far. But if he can get us back in cl, i don't care.
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Simon Jordan really doesn’t like playing the narrative does he? Damn him and his facts! Joking aside the blokes a breath of fresh air.

i read on here recently, so most prob BS(!) that since the CL final we’ve spent over 350m on players? So contrary to popular opinion I don’t think our strategy has to change much if that is the case, we just have to scout better which is Paratrici’s task!
 
Lilbaz said:
Have you got evidence conte is a checkbook manager? Simon jordan read out some stats this morning, contes average net spend in the last 5 years is £46m a season. Yes we might have to fork out a bit more as we need a lot of work. But if levy gives paratici the budget and lets them get on with it, i don't see why it can't work now.
Agree that he isn't a project manager. Or hasn't been so far. But if he can get us back in cl, i don't care.
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Everyone and their dog knows he's left all his previous posts because "issues over spending" or "lack of backing" etc. It's all there in the open.
If you want to take a look in detail see here: https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/ant...ers/trainer/3517/plus/0/galerie/0?station_id=

Also note the sheer number of players at Inter even the ones without fees; yet he often was said to be complaining in the media about lack of support after a CL loss for example...it will take a big change for us to sate this kind of appetite!
 
Gazza Dazzla said:
Simon Jordan really doesn’t like playing the narrative does he? Damn him and his facts! Joking aside the blokes a breath of fresh air.

i read on here recently, so most prob BS(!) that since the CL final we’ve spent over 350m on players? So contrary to popular opinion I don’t think our strategy has to change much if that is the case, we just have to scout better which is Paratrici’s task!
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I certainly like Jordan atm, especially his defence of us when an Arsenal fan tried to mock. But even he a few days ago acknowledged that something had to change with how Levy/ENIC usually operate to get someone like Conte...

Let's indeed hope Paratici is up to the task, otherwise we'll be in trouble!
 
fernadez said:
I can't see how you can say that Pep is a long term squad builder, How many defenders has he gone through? Tuchel was at PSG for 2 years and Dortmund for 2 years before that.

All three of the managers you've mentioned has spent just as much as him. There was a stat showing that Conte's spend per point is the 2nd lowest of top managers.

I'm sure that his first season in Italy with Inter his spend was low as they were broke. Look at his transfer incomings during his Inter reign. Not much different to our spending.
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Pep and Klopp have outspent conte
Tuchel is not a days builder but a coach of players
And your right the Conte has to spend thing is a weak stereotype
 
glorygloryeze said:
I certainly like Jordan atm, especially his defence of us when an Arsenal fan tried to mock. But even he a few days ago acknowledged that something had to change with how Levy/ENIC usually operate to get someone like Conte...

Let's indeed hope Paratici is up to the task, otherwise we'll be in trouble!
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I think we all know that if levy tries to go for cheap options conte will walk. Sure levy does too. But we have paratici as dof now. If levy can give paratici a budget and step back and let the 2 of them get on with it. I can see it working.
If not,well it will get ugly.

We are in a sort of same situation as when rddknapp took over. The team is on a low not working at all. Enic did a share issue and raised funds (increasing their stake in the club too), this was given to redknapp and we turned it around completely. Hopefully the same can happen.
 
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