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Another shooting in Murica

LutonSpurs said:
Human life is valuable. And there's a deep philosophical debate about the right to end another's life based on actions. However extra judicial killings like this are only destined to break societal consensus.

You may dislike a person. And you may feel they contributed to your suffering. But we must work to live and thrive in a system where apparatus exists where there is control and guardrails. This is anarchy.

It helps nobody imo.
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Yep, I agree

His death came in part because of the polarisation of people, in part based on him being a massive part of that BUT his killing means that gap is now only going to get wider and its scary now to think where this takes us now.

I look at these marches in London at the weekend and I just think to myself that the world would be much better if people just concentrated on being the best version of themselves rather than taking to the streets/social media to tell everyone how others should live and think. Utopia I know but I guarantee if Kirk had spent time trying to be the best version of himself, rather than pontificating about how others should live, he would still be alive now. Thats not a dig or celebration in anyway, just that my mind can't fathom why people spend their lives doing what he and others do, to what end?
 
Grays_1890 said:
Yep, I agree

His death came in part because of the polarisation of people, in part based on him being a massive part of that BUT his killing means that gap is now only going to get wider and its scary now to think where this takes us now.

I look at these marches in London at the weekend and I just think to myself that the world would be much better if people just concentrated on being the best version of themselves rather than taking to the streets/social media to tell everyone how others should live and think. Utopia I know but I guarantee if Kirk had spent time trying to be the best version of himself, rather than pontificating about how others should live, he would still be alive now. Thats not a dig or celebration in anyway, just that my mind can't fathom why people spend their lives doing what he and others do, to what end?
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Part of the problem is that for some people doing what Kirk did was him trying to be the best version of himself, probably also including Kirk himself.

Part of the end goal is power and influence. And the spread of authoritarianism and religious dogmatism. To a significant portion of the population those are good healthy aims to have.
 
obviously wouldn't wish harm on him or most folks. but the whole "let's force sympathy on Kirk" is a bit tiring.

You're not obligated to manufacture sorrow and empathy for anyone. He was a massive fan of the 2nd Amendment and didn't matter to him who lost their lives or was impacted because of it.

FYI - there was a shooting at a school yesterday too, in case you missed it.
 
Diamond Lights said:
obviously wouldn't wish harm on him or most folks. but the whole "let's force sympathy on Kirk" is a bit tiring.

You're not obligated to manufacture sorrow and empathy for anyone. He was a massive fan of the 2nd Amendment and didn't matter to him who lost their lives or was impacted because of it.

FYI - there was a shooting at a school yesterday too, in case you missed it.
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No problems feeling sympathy/empathy for his wife and kids.

For him, not so much for me personally. Or would take significant effort to get there and not sure it's worth it.
 
braineclipse said:
No problems feeling sympathy/empathy for his wife and kids.

For him, not so much for me personally. Or would take significant effort to get there and not sure it's worth it.
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Kirk wouldn't want you to feel empathy for him. He said as much last week. It is too 'wokey'. We need to respect his wishes on that.
 
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I’ve no issue with anyone who isn’t bothered about him, or doesn’t feel empathy etc. the ones I question are the ones online jumping with glee and actually celebrating it - I don’t think that makes someone the person they think it does.

As I say, I didn’t agree with or support him, I just don’t think this solves anything, in fact, I think it makes it worse.
 
I'd never heard of him before. His Wiki makes for some interesting reading. Safe to say he's not my cup of tea.

Truly tragic for his wife and kids, but there is an...irony? Not sure if that's the correct word...but someone who is so clearly looking to create division has apparently lost his life because of just that. And, of course, the person who did has only furthered that division too.
 
my issue is more the gun control or lack thereof.

I dont think anyone should have hand guns but the fact the this advocate was shot from over 100m... why anyone needs a sniper rifle i'll never know.
 
Rafa87 said:
I’ve no issue with anyone who isn’t bothered about him, or doesn’t feel empathy etc. the ones I question are the ones online jumping with glee and actually celebrating it - I don’t think that makes someone the person they think it does.

As I say, I didn’t agree with or support him, I just don’t think this solves anything, in fact, I think it makes it worse.
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Indeed.
I'll perhaps be the first to post here and actively say I agreed with the vast majority of what he would say, I thought he was a fantastic human being and I am shaken by his murder.
I have heard a lot of him talking and encountered a grace-filled, intelligent person who held beliefs and faith strongly enough to actively engage with people to try and convince them otherwise. He traded in dialogue and debate and (maybe) for that he's been murdered. Just because someone disagreed with how he lived his life and believed the best way for others to live as well.
Mercifully, his overriding driver was his faith in Christ and that is in whose arms he now resides
 
JerusalemMan said:
Indeed.
I'll perhaps be the first to post here and actively say I agreed with the vast majority of what he would say, I thought he was a fantastic human being and I am shaken by his murder.
I have heard a lot of him talking and encountered a grace-filled, intelligent person who held beliefs and faith strongly enough to actively engage with people to try and convince them otherwise. He traded in dialogue and debate and (maybe) for that he's been murdered. Just because someone disagreed with how he lived his life and believed the best way for others to live as well.
Mercifully, his overriding driver was his faith in Christ and that is in whose arms he now resides
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Lets be fair, he was also a mass spreader of misinformation and hate and before anyone starts, thats not justifying his death because its not.

But lets not wash the truth here, the guy's main vehicle for life and his income was about spreading hate and creating division, no matter how gracefully and polite he debated, its a fact. I give you that he wasn't Lawrence Fox, but he wasn't Gandhi either
 
...spreading hate. Sheesh.
Hard to express how fundamentally I disagree with you. But I'm aware I'm heterodox in this place when it comes to such things so - especially right now - it's not fruitful to say more.
 
JerusalemMan said:
...spreading hate. Sheesh.
Hard to express how fundamentally I disagree with you. But I'm aware I'm heterodox in this place when it comes to such things so - especially right now - it's not fruitful to say more.
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Speeches laden with misogyny and homophobia, a massive anti civil rights advocate.........for starters

But he said it nicely and was close to Christ............sound
 
LutonSpurs said:
Human life is valuable. And there's a deep philosophical debate about the right to end another's life based on actions. However extra judicial killings like this are only destined to break societal consensus.

You may dislike a person. And you may feel they contributed to your suffering. But we must work to live and thrive in a system where apparatus exists where there is control and guardrails. This is anarchy.

It helps nobody imo.
Click to expand...

I do agree. But there is the academic argument about the Operation Anthropoid/The Dead Zone conundrum. Whether a carefully chosen intervention might as a consequence save thousands or millions of lives.

You only have to look at the sad case of Yitzhak Rabin to see how successful political assassination can be. Navalny might turn out to be another one. Usually though the martyrdom ends up being more powerful than the original person was
 
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I'd never heard of the guy and I've no intention of finding out about him.
It's sad that someone has been killed in such it way.
It's even sadder that his death is almost certainly going to make matters worse, not better.
 
Gutter Boy said:
I do agree. But there is the academic argument about the Operation Anthropoid/The Dead Zone conundrum. Whether a carefully chosen intervention might as a consequence save thousands or millions of lives.

You only have to look at the sad case of Yitzhak Rabin to see how successful political assassination can be. Navalny might turn out to be another one. Usually though the martyrdom ends up being more powerful than the original person was
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Carefully chosen by who is the issue. And how powerful is the target that society feels they need to kill them when they have not broken the law?
 
braineclipse said:
Part of the problem is that for some people doing what Kirk did was him trying to be the best version of himself, probably also including Kirk himself.

Part of the end goal is power and influence. And the spread of authoritarianism and religious dogmatism. To a significant portion of the population those are good healthy aims to have.
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....and grifting, never forget the money angle.
 
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