Ange’s system / formation

[spurspinter1]

So we'll likely finish 5th. Behind the usual top 3 and an excellent manager in Emery.
Considering this is season 1 of Ange, and starting from a very low ebb, I'm very happy with that.
Ange has always been honest from the start not to expect miracles and it's a process. Were seeing the immense strengths and gapping holes very startkly - that's pretty awesome.
There is one big difference from Jose and Conte though - Ange doesn't seem to bury his head in the sand.
He'll need to learn and adapt Ange ball to be successful in the PL and Europe. When or works, it's lethal. When it's nullified, it's exploitable. Australia, East Asia and Scotland don't have the weapons to exploit it regularly - he's at a different table now.
I'm really excited for it though.
And very happy with 5th. 4th would be exceptional.

And, most importantly.....this is enjoyable again! Please don't forget how horrible the previous 3 years were to watch.
I'd also fancy us to go very far in the EL next season.

(Also, let's not overreact to getting spanked away to Saudi Sportswashing Machine......that place is our nemesis)

5th would be great. Given our remaining fixtures, not to be pessimistic but it's a good job we have that 10 points buffer. Without looking at the results, I feel like we've done pretty well against the good sides, aside from the Chelsea game but playing like we did against Saudi Sportswashing Machine it could genuinely be 0 from 3 games and then things start looking a bit ropey.

It's interesting looking at the season, most were expecting us to be rubbish from the start and instead things just clicked. Then the bit where we lost players to injury and international duty, started racking up the losses but there were still positives in the performances. Now we're in the bit where with all the players back, it was hoped that we would've gone back to smashing it again but it's been off and on.

Better than most would have hoped for in the league and as you say MB, a lot more fun to watch. I would be astounded if we can match Conte's 1st league position with us, but a Villa collapse isn't totally out of the question. The only real dumpster fire part was the performances in the cups, some misfortune in drawing City of course but in supposedly darker times we've given a much better account of ourselves against them lot.

Potential additions will have seen enough of the potential for what can be built here and the fans hopefully will have seen enough to be patient with it too. There's a lot of false dawns and optimism for the sake of it in football but I genuinely feel like where our club is at right now has a lot of promise, if we can get back in to European football where we should be and make the summer count then we're well positioned.

 

[thfcsteff]

I’m not sure I agree with this. The chances we created against Saudi Sportswashing Machine weren’t great ones and I don’t think there were several of them. Two chances for Werner, one with the ball arriving at pace at an awkward height with him also running at pace and another (the easier of the two chances IMO) giving him very little time to sort his feet. I’d say those two chances combined probably only had XG of around 0.5.

We were well beaten by the better team at the weekend. A team that had better work rate, more physicality, more creativity and better tactics for the game. I thought 4-0 was about the fair result overall on balance of chances.

Understood, albeit I think you might be focussing my comments specifically on one game, when I was looking to make the point that the same issues have been consistent for around a month now (maybe a little longer)...

I admit that I do not pay attention to XG stats on the whole. I think the Werner chances were extremely presentable; I am not someone who hammers him as I don't see him as a finisher per se, but he has time on both occasions to anticipate what might be coming. Bentancur had an early incursion into the box. If we want to look at stats, our possession stats were huge, again that says as much about how each time set up as anything else (I accept that). If you take Saudi Sportswashing Machine's goals, two were clear mistakes, and one was a marking error. Three mistakes. I agree that Newcash's tactics were very solid, I also agree that we lacked physicality in key areas (I personally think our biggest issue is not being braver in areas of the pitch where we were earlier in the season and Madders is key to that). Saudi Sportswashing Machine 'more creative'? I disagree. They had a clear plan which worked. If creativity is measured by exploiting our mistakes, then I'd be more inclinced to see that point, otherwise I didn't see much from them beyond the goals we handed them. I think it still stands scrutiny to say that had we taken one of those two early very presentable chances, the game would've taken on a very different tone.

 

[Bullet]

Our skill players got out-fought. We should have nutmegged Schar and outpaced Burn and bamboozled Longstaff but instead we got pressed man-for-man and never beat the opponent, but allowed them to scare and bully us back.
We resorted to slow safe passes rather than really saying "right then mate, watch this".
As I type, I'm watching Barca vs PSG and it is an incredible display of confident players tricking and beating their opponent with skill and desire and never just laying it off. End to end brilliance and daring to do.

 

[metalgear]

"If you’re talking about do we do training where we’re standing around and working on how we’re going to stop an opposition, how we’re going to break down, no we don’t do that, but I don’t think that’s the only kind of tactical work that exists. I think anyone who trains with us will tell you that all we do is train the way we play. Maybe that’s not tactical work, I don’t know!"

Postecoglou hits back at Dier 'no tactics' claim and defends Kane's Bayern move

The Tottenham Hotspur boss has been speaking about two of his former players and the claim that his training sessions don't involve tactical work

www.football.london

So ange's system is all about enforcing angeball and little to do interfere with the opposition's.

Not saying if it's good or bad, every system has its pros and cons. Even having no system!

 

[Bishop]

Our skill players got out-fought. We should have nutmegged Schar and outpaced Burn and bamboozled Longstaff but instead we got pressed man-for-man and never beat the opponent, but allowed them to scare and bully us back.
We resorted to slow safe passes rather than really saying "right then mate, watch this".
As I type, I'm watching Barca vs PSG and it is an incredible display of confident players tricking and beating their opponent with skill and desire and never just laying it off. End to end brilliance and daring to do.

We need better more technical players throughout the team to play the way Ange wants which is pretty similar to Barca in the long run. You can see what he wants us to be in the long run. I think we largely have the defenders for it, but its failing with the midfield and particularly the forwards;. None of them are really possession players and none suit playing against lower blocks and i'm including all of the bench options as well that we have seen. There's a disconnect between what we want to do and with the attributes of the actual forwards we have available.

 

[Diamond Lights]

Last weekend vs Saudi Sportswashing Machine has me really questioning Ange. Hate to say it, but he's being saved some grace by not being a dingdonghead which is great, but performances in recent weeks been so poor. Have teams figured us out? We might get past the Luton's and Forest but clearly anyone half decent (Fulham, Saudi Sportswashing Machine), just shocking.

Cant recall which podcast it was (VFTL?) but having 70% possession and losing 2-0 speaks volumes. Having 70% possession and losing 4-0 is embarrassing. Howe absolutely schooled Ange.

 

[jrh]

Last weekend vs Saudi Sportswashing Machine has me really questioning Ange. Hate to say it, but he's being saved some grace by not being a dingdonghead which is great, but performances in recent weeks been so poor. Have teams figured us out? We might get past the Luton's and Forest but clearly anyone half decent (Fulham, Saudi Sportswashing Machine), just shocking.

Cant recall which podcast it was (VFTL?) but having 70% possession and losing 2-0 speaks volumes. Having 70% possession and losing 4-0 is embarrassing. Howe absolutely schooled Ange.

So you're in for the long haul then?

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Last weekend vs Saudi Sportswashing Machine has me really questioning Ange. Hate to say it, but he's being saved some grace by not being a dingdonghead which is great, but performances in recent weeks been so poor. Have teams figured us out? We might get past the Luton's and Forest but clearly anyone half decent (Fulham, Saudi Sportswashing Machine), just shocking.

Cant recall which podcast it was (VFTL?) but having 70% possession and losing 2-0 speaks volumes. Having 70% possession and losing 4-0 is embarrassing. Howe absolutely schooled Ange.

Just like Ange schooled him at home
It happens
Logic says it’s shouldn’t
But it does
No one complains when we get results from it only when it goes wrong

 

[Diamond Lights]

So you're in for the long haul then?

i aint saying Ange out etc, but i also think we need to be able to question obvious issues without being slaughtered for it too.

No escaping the fact that he was completely owned by Silva and Howe. And actually, it didn't need to be this way.

Saudi Sportswashing Machine had a midfielder playing as a LWB, it wasn't personnel on the day that outdid us but the tactics and that is inescapable. You can lose to better players no problem. Losing to worse players because of system rigidity and inability to adapt is on Ange.

You may get away with it at Celtic but you wont in the PL. Needs to show he can solve the problems as they arise. So far i am not sure he has proven that.

 

[tommysvr]

i aint saying Ange out etc, but i also think we need to be able to question obvious issues without being slaughtered for it too.

No escaping the fact that he was completely owned by Silva and Howe. And actually, it didn't need to be this way.

Saudi Sportswashing Machine had a midfielder playing as a LWB, it wasn't personnel on the day that outdid us but the tactics and that is inescapable. You can lose to better players no problem. Losing to worse players because of system rigidity and inability to adapt is on Ange.

You may get away with it at Celtic but you wont in the PL. Needs to show he can solve the problems as they arise. So far i am not sure he has proven that.

This is laughable.

 

[Diamond Lights]

This is laughable.

which part? Happy to engage and discuss rather than a "this is laughable" but not actually pointing out where/why.

I've been a big supporter of Ange since he's taken over the club but again, in recent weeks, we have been taught a lesson at Fulham and Saudi Sportswashing Machine, both in effect winnable games by a score of 7-0.

Instead of just going on vibes, maybe engage and explain further?

Vs Fulham:
57% possession
Fulham 7 shots on target | Spurs 5

Vs Saudi Sportswashing Machine:
73% possession
Ncastle 5 shots on target | Spurs 2

That's just a high level synopsis. In both games, we had the lions share of possession, created little to nothing, and despite our superior possession, had suffered more shots from opposition, meaning the system didn't work.

 

[Lilbaz]

which part? Happy to engage and discuss rather than a "this is laughable" but not actually pointing out where/why.

I've been a big supporter of Ange since he's taken over the club but again, in recent weeks, we have been taught a lesson at Fulham and Saudi Sportswashing Machine, both in effect winnable games by a score of 7-0.

Instead of just going on vibes, maybe engage and explain further?

Vs Fulham:
57% possession
Fulham 7 shots on target | Spurs 5

Vs Saudi Sportswashing Machine:
73% possession
Ncastle 5 shots on target | Spurs 2

That's just a high level synopsis. In both games, we had the lions share of possession, created little to nothing, and despite our superior possession, had suffered more shots from opposition, meaning the system didn't work.

How many transfer windows did it take klopp, pep or even arteta to get their system to work?

Arteta ok you could argue won the fa cup. But then successive 8th placed finishes.

There will be tweaks. Both tactical and in players.

 

[Lilbaz]

which part? Happy to engage and discuss rather than a "this is laughable" but not actually pointing out where/why.

I've been a big supporter of Ange since he's taken over the club but again, in recent weeks, we have been taught a lesson at Fulham and Saudi Sportswashing Machine, both in effect winnable games by a score of 7-0.

Instead of just going on vibes, maybe engage and explain further?

Vs Fulham:
57% possession
Fulham 7 shots on target | Spurs 5

Vs Saudi Sportswashing Machine:
73% possession
Ncastle 5 shots on target | Spurs 2

That's just a high level synopsis. In both games, we had the lions share of possession, created little to nothing, and despite our superior possession, had suffered more shots from opposition, meaning the system didn't work.

Out of curiosity at the beginning of the season did you do a prediction of where we'd finish?

 

[Bedfordspurs]

i aint saying Ange out etc, but i also think we need to be able to question obvious issues without being slaughtered for it too.

No escaping the fact that he was completely owned by Silva and Howe. And actually, it didn't need to be this way.

Saudi Sportswashing Machine had a midfielder playing as a LWB, it wasn't personnel on the day that outdid us but the tactics and that is inescapable. You can lose to better players no problem. Losing to worse players because of system rigidity and inability to adapt is on Ange.

You may get away with it at Celtic but you wont in the PL. Needs to show he can solve the problems as they arise. So far i am not sure he has proven that.

As I say… no one said it when he schooled Howe at the lane or silva too
Don’t forget Fulham took points off Arsenal
Saudi Sportswashing Machine battered Villa
It does happen
It’s frustrating and annoying, but it does happen

 

[Jurgen the German]

Out of curiosity at the beginning of the season did you do a prediction of where we'd finish?

Doesn’t mean we can’t analyse individual games. I’m very pro Ange in most aspects except the defensive side. Setting teams up to be hard to beat really isn’t that hard. Especially when we have some very good defenders. Going forward I’m very pleased with how we play and the style and I’m confident we will create chances and score goals, albeit I feel we need better wingers. It’s the other end that needs to be addressed more urgently as we have the players IMO to go to places like Saudi Sportswashing Machine and Fulham and be getting gubbed 3 and 4 nil.

 

[Diamond Lights]

Doesn’t mean we can’t analyse individual games. I’m very pro Ange in most aspects except the defensive side. Setting teams up to be hard to beat really isn’t that hard. Especially when we have some very good defenders. Going forward I’m very pleased with how we play and the style and I’m confident we will create chances and score goals, albeit I feel we need better wingers. It’s the other end that needs to be addressed more urgently as we have the players IMO to go to places like Saudi Sportswashing Machine and Fulham and be getting gubbed 3 and 4 nil.

Think you're right about questioning individual games as i have done so, would disagree our problems only exist at the back though.

I mean, there are certainly problems at the back. We effectively have two defenders and ask them to do bail us out, just an error or mis-step and it's over.

But up front, analysing Saudi Sportswashing Machine, we had the possession, what did we do with it? not everyone likes xG and i totally get why, but Saudi Sportswashing Machine's was 3.15 vs Spurs of 0.74. We had possession but created very few chances, very few clear cut opportunities. As i said with Son unable to do much, we have no Plan B. It was interesting actually against Saudi Sportswashing Machine we looked better when Brennan went up top and Kulu was on as we finally had someone to hold the ball up and bring others into the game.

Richy's injuries have also killed us. It was no surprise his first X amount of goals were all headers (usually via Perisic crossing) but now we have no option like that.

Not saying i have a solution but if Son has 2 goals in 2 months as your main striker, then you have issues.

 

[Baleforce]

Think you're right about questioning individual games as i have done so, would disagree our problems only exist at the back though.

I mean, there are certainly problems at the back. We effectively have two defenders and ask them to do bail us out, just an error or mis-step and it's over.

But up front, analysing Saudi Sportswashing Machine, we had the possession, what did we do with it? not everyone likes xG and i totally get why, but Saudi Sportswashing Machine's was 3.15 vs Spurs of 0.74. We had possession but created very few chances, very few clear cut opportunities. As i said with Son unable to do much, we have no Plan B. It was interesting actually against Saudi Sportswashing Machine we looked better when Brennan went up top and Kulu was on as we finally had someone to hold the ball up and bring others into the game.

Richy's injuries have also killed us. It was no surprise his first X amount of goals were all headers (usually via Perisic crossing) but now we have no option like that.

Not saying i have a solution but if Son has 2 goals in 2 months as your main striker, then you have issues.

We didn’t even stick with plan A against Saudi Sportswashing Machine, getting the wingers in behind to put dangerous balls across.

Just tried to play keep ball on the edge of the box.

I think if we can adjust the defence and have more bodies back there it eases things across the team.

 

[johnola]

Out of curiosity at the beginning of the season did you do a prediction of where we'd finish?

To jump in….Most of us would have said below Chelsea and United…!

 

[DeanoAustin]

Doesn’t mean we can’t analyse individual games. I’m very pro Ange in most aspects except the defensive side. Setting teams up to be hard to beat really isn’t that hard. Especially when we have some very good defenders. Going forward I’m very pleased with how we play and the style and I’m confident we will create chances and score goals, albeit I feel we need better wingers. It’s the other end that needs to be addressed more urgently as we have the players IMO to go to places like Saudi Sportswashing Machine and Fulham and be getting gubbed 3 and 4 nil.

I’m not sure we can be hard to beat without sacrificing some of our ability to score goals. I’ve been very critical of his use of full backs as I think it leaves us over exposed but it does bring with it the possibility of reward.

Like Ange said, no system is perfect, they all have flaws and weaknesses.

Personally though, I’d be happier to be a bit more solid even if that took away some of our attacking threat. Don’t think that’s in Ange’s make up though.

 

[parklane1]

it was always going to take time to turn us into a better team then we were before Ange came in. Sadly it seems there are those who expected it to be a overnight transistion and not willing to give him the time before the doubters start calling him out on what he is doing.. WORK IN PROGRESS and its bound to have its ups and downs.