Ange’s system / formation

[Bedfordspurs]

You could say their system caused us to make the mistakes, pressure generally leads to mistakes but yeah if our system was perfectly in sync it would likely have counteracted whatever they can throw at us 80% of the time but we aren't there yet and probably 1-2 seasons away from it at least.

We make the mistakes with no pressure though
I don’t mean VDV falling over. That can happen although twice is odd
But son and Maddison losing it on the edge of their area but not being decisive wasn’t pressure
The their wasn’t wasn’t pressure, it was poor play by son to lose it running into two players
Pressure comes from a team being dominant with the ball or pressing without it. Saudi Sportswashing Machine did press us well is that is some pressure for sure
But Fulham didn’t for example
When you go all out chuckle brothers on the edge of opposition area and lose it.. you have problems

 

[Raziel]

We’re on the same page
Fulham don’t win that game if we score the chances we had. We didn’t, we missed them and they scored.. first goal is key away form home as we know
Saudi Sportswashing Machine.. we were the better side with and without the ball but they have pace. Sonny and Cher lose it by not being decisive.. they bang it down our end and the mainstay of our defence falls over. That doesn’t happen very often (there were other issues too). The fact he slipped again for another goal says a lot
But… I’ll sound like a broken record… if these teams adjust and play a low block, we have to to have a CF making life harder for their centre backs. The chances we missed vs Fulham and Saudi Sportswashing Machine were not from our striker because the guy playing as striker was not in the box. That’s a big fix.
No coincidence in those games and others too, the outball for the opposition has been their form striker (isak, Muniz) who have played central and literally off our CBS
The defensive ones take more things to change too of course

Yep, but that's why the details matter

- More clinical in front of goal, with our chances (could mean more clinal striker, runs/tactics or team broadly contributing more)
- The mix of midfield working (so much here, better cover for back line, faster movement of ball, less turnover, etc)

We also have to adapt to the opposition adapting to us, specifically
- A lot of sitting deep (no space for wingers to run into), 1:1 marking (to negate the room our fluidity can create), consistent tactical fouling (again breaks game and flow), trying to target us with set pieces.

I don't think it's that far off, but we need to improve, some is team time, some of it will be better players, some of it will be Ange compensating for some of these tactics

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Yep, but that's why the details matter

- More clinical in front of goal, with our chances (could mean more clinal striker, runs/tactics or team broadly contributing more)
- The mix of midfield working (so much here, better cover for back line, faster movement of ball, less turnover, etc)

We also have to adapt to the opposition adapting to us, specifically
- A lot of sitting deep (no space for wingers to run into), 1:1 marking (to negate the room our fluidity can create), consistent tactical fouling (again breaks game and flow), trying to target us with set pieces.

I don't think it's that far off, but we need to improve, some is team time, some of it will be better players, some of it will be Ange compensating for some of these tactics

So you mean repeating what is failing isn’t gonna work … that’s what changes at half time in these games when we’re not losing … we start quicker and move quicker. It’s a tweak but a noteable one

What I don’t get is players coming deeper to get the ball as that rarely works

We should be getting more shots off imo but that needs someone moving the CBS

 

[monkeybarry]

So we'll likely finish 5th. Behind the usual top 3 and an excellent manager in Emery.
Considering this is season 1 of Ange, and starting from a very low ebb, I'm very happy with that.
Ange has always been honest from the start not to expect miracles and it's a process. Were seeing the immense strengths and gapping holes very startkly - that's pretty awesome.
There is one big difference from Jose and Conte though - Ange doesn't seem to bury his head in the sand.
He'll need to learn and adapt Ange ball to be successful in the PL and Europe. When or works, it's lethal. When it's nullified, it's exploitable. Australia, East Asia and Scotland don't have the weapons to exploit it regularly - he's at a different table now.
I'm really excited for it though.
And very happy with 5th. 4th would be exceptional.

And, most importantly.....this is enjoyable again! Please don't forget how horrible the previous 3 years were to watch.
I'd also fancy us to go very far in the EL next season.

(Also, let's not overreact to getting spanked away to Saudi Sportswashing Machine......that place is our nemesis)

 

[P.D.]

We make the mistakes with no pressure though
I don’t mean VDV falling over. That can happen although twice is odd
But son and Maddison losing it on the edge of their area but not being decisive wasn’t pressure
The their wasn’t wasn’t pressure, it was poor play by son to lose it running into two players
Pressure comes from a team being dominant with the ball or pressing without it. Saudi Sportswashing Machine did press us well is that is some pressure for sure
But Fulham didn’t for example
When you go all out chuckle brothers on the edge of opposition area and lose it.. you have problems

Pressure doesn't have to be a direct goal attacking threat. If an individual player isn't playing well or the team aren't playing well or a player/team have had a bad few results then that all creates pressure which can lead to a mistake. I didn't see the goal but Madisson could well have been sent off 2 weeks in a row now and looked pretty frustrated, not sure if he was playing badly because he was being pressed/not getting space or he's just out of form but that could cause the error.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Pressure doesn't have to be a direct goal attacking threat. If an individual player isn't playing well or the team aren't playing well or a player/team have had a bad few results then that all creates pressure which can lead to a mistake. I didn't see the goal but Madisson could well have been sent off 2 weeks in a row now and looked pretty frustrated, not sure if he was playing badly because he was being pressed/not getting space or he's just out of form but that could cause the error.

I think his form is a combination of things and your right, he could have been carded several times

 

[Bishop]

So you mean repeating what is failing isn’t gonna work … that’s what changes at half time in these games when we’re not losing … we start quicker and move quicker. It’s a tweak but a noteable one

What I don’t get is players coming deeper to get the ball as that rarely works

We should be getting more shots off imo but that needs someone moving the CBS

You need precise passes and dribblers to move defenders. None of our front three are dribblers, especially not in tight spaces.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

You need precise passes and dribblers to move defenders. None of our front three are dribblers, especially not in tight spaces.

No one dribbles in tight spaces successfully apart from maybe Doku
There are quite a few examples in recent games though of crossing from a dribble and no one being there to score
What teams do though is push their striker even further forward to make them retreat more or simply occupy them
It’s haalands game or Hunez’s
Dripping out of the area doesn’t work well if no one of the opposition comes with you

 

[Bishop]

No one dribbles in tight spaces successfully apart from maybe Doku
There are quite a few examples in recent games though of crossing from a dribble and no one being there to score
What teams do though is push their striker even further forward to make them retreat more or simply occupy them
It’s haalands game or Hunez’s
Dripping out of the area doesn’t work well if no one of the opposition comes with you

I said precision passes and dribblers. Dribblers would be Doku, Saka, Salah, Dias, Jesus (although he has massive failings) etc. Precision passers the likes of Salah again, B Silva etc. Add more of this type and low block defences become easier to pierce.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I said precision passes and dribblers. Dribblers would be Doku, Saka, Salah, Dias, Jesus (although he has massive failings) etc. Precision passers the likes of Salah again, B Silva etc. Add more of this type and low block defences become easier to pierce.

Salah and silva I agree are great passers. Salah passing is really under rated

Diaz and Jesus are just like Werner. They play like him, they shoot like him and create like him. It sometimes looks fancier but the end product is the same

Saka is a bit of a mix similar to Salah

What those guys do though is stay in the box when needed

You don’t see them coming to the half way line to collect the ball

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Didn’t know where to put this

 

[thfcsteff]

View attachment 17016

Didn’t know where to put this

So annoyed at the reffing this season. We got dingdonged again early doors Saturday...

 

[Bedfordspurs]

So annoyed at the reffing this season. We got dingdonged again early doors Saturday...

The high kick?

 

[thfcsteff]

The high kick?

That was one, but I was much more aggravated by Scharr coming 40 yards to take out Sonny one minute and 18 seconds in (it's a yellow all fudging day for me) and then when Burn pulled Sonny back about 10 mins later and no yellow. Those decisions let Newcash know they can get away with stuff. Like so many this season. brick reffing again.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

That was one, but I was much more aggravated by Scharr coming 40 yards to take out Sonny one minute and 18 seconds in (it's a yellow all fudging day for me) and then when Burn pulled Sonny back about 10 mins later and no yellow. Those decisions let Newcash know they can get away with stuff. Like so many this season. brick reffing again.

What worried me was how deep Sonny was … but at last at that point the CB has tracked him

After that they left him

But the ref did book players based on outcomes rather than actions

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Stolen from teletext

We are struggling to score & break down teams with a low block yet when you mention Richarlison to #Spurs fans the hate is unreal
When he has started for #Tottenham this season

12 Wins
3 Draws
2 Losses

71% win rate.
2.29 points per game.

He’s our No 9

Also out best defender of set pieces

Amazing how someone value comes when they aren’t playing

 

[thfcsteff]

What worried me was how deep Sonny was … but at last at that point the CB has tracked him

After that they left him

But the ref did book players based on outcomes rather than actions

He was getting nibbled all the time, ditto Maddison. The ref was the same pathetic tone of other refs this season. That isn't letting the game flow, that's allowing a tactic to go unpunished. Chelsea did it, so many have this season...

 

[Bedfordspurs]

He was getting nibbled all the time, ditto Maddison. The ref was the same pathetic tone of other refs this season. That isn't letting the game flow, that's allowing a tactic to go unpunished. Chelsea did it, so many have this season...

Yep
But it’s rarely the cbs of the opposition

 

[tommysvr]

He'll need to learn and adapt Ange ball to be successful in the PL and Europe. When or works, it's lethal. When it's nullified, it's exploitable. Australia, East Asia and Scotland don't have the weapons to exploit it regularly - he's at a different table now.

I agree with most of what you say, except this. It’s all relative. It’s not like Brisbane Roar, Yokohama F Marinos and Celtic were full of Premier League players. He got players of a much lower level to play that way and absolutely dominate teams and the league.

The thing he needed at those clubs, and the thing he needs here is time.

 

[thfcsteff]

Yep
But it’s rarely the cbs of the opposition

I think we are generally saying the same thing; that brick refereeing/the inability - refusal of refs to card offences committed early, has often led to teams either cycle-fouling us repeatedly or for individuals to take liberties in the same fashion. Mark Yeates at the City Ground springs to mind, there have been several others, CBs or not. This past weekend it was both Scharr and Burn who were among the main culprits that got away with it. I'm just tired of it. I suspect you are too.