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Ange in or out?

Ange in or out?

  • In

    Votes: 78 47.3%

  • Out

    Votes: 87 52.7%
  • Total voters
    165
thfcsteff said:
Has he now.
I think the truth is, Harry was always good at identifying what he needed immediately in the short-term. If that is the metric, then OK. But I would not call the likes of Saha and Pienaar especially astute buys, just expensive but 'camera-ready' squaddies.

Postecoglu started his first season with Vicario, Romero/VdV and Bissouma as his spine. He was shorted a CF at that time. He most certainly did have structure, and a foundation/principle. You just don't like it. Or his style. Or him. Whether his style literally has legs is certainly an important discussion. I personally think he has lost too much in terms of energy and momentum via the disruptions to this season to last; I think he's gone. But to question his 'interest' in fundamental principles is just silliness.

I get really really tired of this 'amateur hour' nonsense. When will you and others accept that you do not have the career/experience he has by being an 'amateur'? You don't like his style/way we set-up? Wonderful, have at it. It's the extra jabs which (for me) weaken that opinion every time they get thrown. Frankly, it smacks of ignorance.
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What career/experience? This is the thing. If you're managing Celtic, and you're playing Haggis McShaggers FC, guess what, you can leave your entire right flank free minute one and nothing bad will happen. And if it does, who cares? Because if they score, 9 times out of 10 you're going to score at least 3. And that's literally the highest level he got to before getting this gig.
 
Silly McSilly Face said:
What career/experience? This is the thing. If you're managing Celtic, and you're playing Haggis McShaggers FC, guess what, you can leave your entire right flank free minute one and nothing bad will happen. And if it does, who cares? Because if they score, 9 times out of 10 you're going to score at least 3. And that's literally the highest level he got to before getting this gig.
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I see.
Obviously international management is full of Carlos Kickballs too, right?
Would you like Tony Pulis to come out of retirement? What about Alan Pardew? I hear Curbishly's available...

I think if you want to start making accusations of 'amateurism' based on your metric (not mine BTW) perhaps you should be asking why so many upper level professionals at our club hired someone who, according to you, is 'amateur hour' with no interest in fundamental structures? Any thoughts? Or are they 'amateurs' too?
 
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I think the 'amateur' stuff, whilst harsh/insulting isn't exactly unfounded given that what we are seeing is someone that succeeded at a low level in the game not being able to make it work at a higher level, it kinda follows.
 
billyiddo said:
I think the 'amateur' stuff, whilst harsh/insulting isn't exactly unfounded given that what we are seeing is someone that succeeded at a low level in the game not being able to make it work at a higher level, it kinda follows.
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If he had been unable to make it work with a full/even three quarters complement of his first team squad available, I'd agree.

I think the true thrust of opinion surely rests behind whether you believe he's stubborn for not being more pragmatic in the face of injury issues, or brave for refusing to compromise on a style of football (he did tweak the way in which that style was deployed). Calling him an 'amateur' is, IMO, absurd and fundamentally wrong.
 
billyiddo said:
I think the 'amateur' stuff, whilst harsh/insulting isn't exactly unfounded given that what we are seeing is someone that succeeded at a low level in the game not being able to make it work at a higher level, it kinda follows.
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How many “amateurs” finish 5th in their first Premier League, on the back of selling their one of best ever players and the club being in a whole heap of turmoil before that?
 
Silly McSilly Face said:
What career/experience? This is the thing. If you're managing Celtic, and you're playing Haggis McShaggers FC, guess what, you can leave your entire right flank free minute one and nothing bad will happen. And if it does, who cares? Because if they score, 9 times out of 10 you're going to score at least 3. And that's literally the highest level he got to before getting this gig.
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This sort of reply says far more about you than it does Ange.
 
tommysvr said:
How many “amateurs” finish 5th in their first Premier League, on the back of selling their one of best ever players and the club being in a whole heap of turmoil before that?
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Like I said 'amateur' is just a harsh way of describing someone who is not cut out for this level - he's obviously not an actual amateur, the same way that Jose or Conte weren't actual dinosaurs.

So with that in mind there's probably a lot of managers who have had an initially impressive first season/run of results before being unable to maintain it. Tim Sherwood has our highest win % if I'm not mistaken.
 
afsoc4life said:
I agree with the last paragraph especially. There are many times I have considered walking away from this forum because of this. I wonder what would happen if the manager was Nigerian and Spurs were not doing well, what language would one see?
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I hesitate to bring up his nationality as a reason for the negativity but I do think it plays a part. Rather than it him being Australian though, maybe it’s that he’s not English?

Graham Potter has won what…a Swedish cup? Do you see the same things written about him? Unai Emery was dragged through the mud by English media because he had an accent. There are probably other examples.

However, there are examples that disprove it. Sam Allardyce, David Moyes and other British managers have never full got the respect they deserve. Countless footballers get the same treatment too — black players definitely worse for me.

Dunno what the answer is.
 
I personally think Ange has got off lightly given the level of performance he has produced since he has been here, I’m amazed the noise has only come up recently.
 
thfcsteff said:
If he had been unable to make it work with a full/even three quarters complement of his first team squad available, I'd agree.

I think the true thrust of opinion surely rests behind whether you believe he's stubborn for not being more pragmatic in the face of injury issues, or brave for refusing to compromise on a style of football (he did tweak the way in which that style was deployed). Calling him an 'amateur' is, IMO, absurd and fundamentally wrong.
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I think i simply seem to have hit a nerve. I didn't actually call him an amateur. I said that leaving our entire right flank completely open minute one away in a cup tie against a top 6 team was "amateur hour". That space was vacated by our first choice full back following tactical instructions (the gaps behind our full backs are constantly exploited and a tactical weak spot in the system that has been consistently hit by opposition teams since the early good run he enjoyed start of last season. That's not a factor to do with injuries, it's a fundamental weakness in the set up and philosophy AT THIS LEVEL. Playing an accurate ball over a high pressing midfield into the space behind isn't actually an easy pass for a non-top tier player. And it takes an element of risk/reward to tell your winger to not track our full back into our half but let him go and sit in the vacated space. It's no surprise therefore that the higher up you go the more likely these gaps are going to be regularly exploited.
 
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tommysvr said:
How many “amateurs” finish 5th in their first Premier League, on the back of selling their one of best ever players and the club being in a whole heap of turmoil before that?
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I think the challenge is that some of those performances that got us to 5th have not been replicated barely at all this season. They seem a distant memory now, even considering the Ipswich victory where the scoreline and performance didn't jive. Also the 5th could have been a 4th, but for some of the defensive fallibilities that cost us key points that would have got us over the line last season.

Ange really needs to remind us again that he can get 11 players playing well. He has some great resources at his disposal.
 
Muttley said:
A bit of artistic license there. Potter moved his club through 4 divisions and won 2 league titles in the process. He did amazing things with that Swedish club. 4th tier Swedish league to beating Arsenal at the Emirates in the UEFA Cup.
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I’m not saying he didn’t do amazing things (wasn’t aware he won the League too.) But it’s still less than Ange? You have someone criticising his achievements on this very page because they didn’t happen in a “pwopa league”
 
tommysvr said:
This sort of reply says far more about you than it does Ange.
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1) Do you think someone with Ange's CV should have been anywhere near the shortlist for a club like THFC?
2) Even if you think the A to Q1 is "yeah, worth a punt", is it actually a surprise that having taken the punt, 18 months in, we look a total mess and are likely going to have our worst league finish/points total in absolute years?
 
tommysvr said:
I’m not saying he didn’t do amazing things (wasn’t aware he won the League too.) But it’s still less than Ange? You have someone criticising his achievements on this very page because they didn’t happen in a “pwopa league”
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He did well with brighton in the prem. When he took over chelsea he got slated. The media said the job was too big for him. You might not have noticed as much, as you are not a chelsea fan. Chelsea fans were emailing him and saying he and his kids should die.
 
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