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Ange in or out?

Ange in or out?

  • In

    Votes: 78 47.3%

  • Out

    Votes: 87 52.7%
  • Total voters
    165
Silly McSilly Face said:
1) Do you think someone with Ange's CV should have been anywhere near the shortlist for a club like THFC?
2) Even if you think the A to Q1 is "yeah, worth a punt", is it actually a surprise that having taken the punt, 18 months in, we look a total mess and are likely going to have our worst league finish/points total in absolute years?
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1) I mentioned him three years before he was even appointed, so yes I did: https://www.glory-glory.co.uk/threads/next-manager.10899/page-443#post-1475142

2) No, it’s not a huge surprise. ~3 months of missing 10+ players can do that to a team
 
tommysvr said:
I’m not saying he didn’t do amazing things (wasn’t aware he won the League too.) But it’s still less than Ange? You have someone criticising his achievements on this very page because they didn’t happen in a “pwopa league”
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Yeah, he won't the 4th tier and 3rd tier division and then came second in the 2nd tier but still got them promoted. They will build a statue of him in that little town one day for what he did. They ended up with UEFA football. He also took a degree and followed it up with a masters in emotional intelligence and business.

I actually think Ange is quite smart as well. He is quite the genius with the media. He evades the questions, has his canned, vanilla answers ready at all times and if someone pushes him for not answering he gets spiky. You have to be quite intelligent to do all of that. It wouldn't wash with me though. If I were Munn, he'd have to answer the sort of questions we read on this forum every day. They are massive questions on why it's not happening on the pitch for him at Spurs.

I also think that history on the CV was what was needed to hire him. It wouldn't count at all for the retention question right now. All that history has been superseded by the data points we have on him in his current role. That is way more important than what he did in Oz, JP or Scotland.
 
Lilbaz said:
We've been crap for a lot longer than 3 months.
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We finished 5th last season and were 6th (a few points of 3rd/4th) when the injuries hit. We haven’t played consistently good football for a long time, but he had us in a good position and the injuries have been a major disruptor.
 
tommysvr said:
1) I mentioned him three years before he was even appointed, so yes I did: https://www.glory-glory.co.uk/threads/next-manager.10899/page-443#post-1475142

2) No, it’s not a huge surprise. ~3 months of missing 10+ players can do that to a team
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Do you think he can maintain a consistent level of performance even without injuries? Bearing in mind as well that Postecoglu himself says that injuries are just an accepted byproduct of the way he trains and plays.

We lost 12 games last season in the league. Which is a high amount for a team finishing in the top 6. We did that with no European football. I feel like we got away with it a bit in the league in some respects but also threw top 4 away via a really poor run of results towards the end of the season where the players just seemed to implode performance wise and there are signs that we are seeing that at a similar stage this season. Of course 4 of the 12 games lost last season came in a period where injuries had robbed us of half of our defenders, just before Xmas. A pattern is potentially emerging is it not?
 
tommysvr said:
But still many Spurs fans would have gladly welcomed him, no?
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Over Ange, I would have thought so, although maybe not gladly given his Chelsea connections and failure. That’s simply because many people would value his body of work( with huge weighting given to his stint as Brighton) as being greater than what Ange has achieved. It’s a matter of opinion if that’s correct or not.
 
Lilbaz said:
We've been crap for a lot longer than 3 months.
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We have been awful since November 2023 and despite his great start points wise, I don’t think we were exceptional in those first ten games either performance wise.

He’s simply not good enough, the question now is if he somehow does manage to win the Europa league does he deserve a shot for next season or does the overwhelming body of evidence suggest that this is not the manager who has a system set up for consistency at this level
 
RigorMortis said:
Over Ange, I would have thought so, although maybe not gladly given his Chelsea connections and failure. That’s simply because many people would value his body of work( with huge weighting given to his stint as Brighton) as being greater than what Ange has achieved. It’s a matter of opinion if that’s correct or not.
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That's fine, I have no problem with Potter and think he did a great job at Brighton. The difference I'm pointing out is the rhetoric. Potter is a fantastically talented manager who failed in his first big job because Chelsea were a brick show. Ange is a clueless amateur who has only done it in tinpot leagues and is now being found out in his first big job.
 
RigorMortis said:
We have been awful since November 2023 and despite his great start points wise, I don’t think we were exceptional in those first ten games either performance wise.

He’s simply not good enough, the question now is if he somehow does manage to win the Europa league does he deserve a shot for next season or does the overwhelming body of evidence suggest that this is not the manager who has a system set up for consistency at this level
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The fact you decided in November 2023 -- 3 months in!!!! - says a lot.
 
Silly McSilly Face said:
Do you think he can maintain a consistent level of performance even without injuries? Bearing in mind as well that Postecoglu himself says that injuries are just an accepted byproduct of the way he trains and plays.

We lost 12 games last season in the league. Which is a high amount for a team finishing in the top 6. We did that with no European football. I feel like we got away with it a bit in the league in some respects but also threw top 4 away via a really poor run of results towards the end of the season where the players just seemed to implode performance wise and there are signs that we are seeing that at a similar stage this season. Of course 4 of the 12 games lost last season came in a period where injuries had robbed us of half of our defenders, just before Xmas. A pattern is potentially emerging is it not?
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I'm always open to evidence on Ange being at fault for the injuries. I support Spurs, not Ange. So if it's proven that he's causing these issues then sure, something has to change. I haven't seen that yet. I've seen lots injuries that might fit that pattern, and I've seen a bunch that don't -- Solanke and Dragusin* the ones off the top of my head.

As I've consistently said, I'm not a doctor or physio or anyone with any knowledge on this. I don't pretend to be and I won't make claims either way that make it seem like I have any idea of the truth as to why we've had so many injuries.

(*cue the "he should have rested them!!" comments)
 
tommysvr said:
That's fine, I have no problem with Potter and think he did a great job at Brighton. The difference I'm pointing out is the rhetoric. Potter is a fantastically talented manager who failed in his first big job because Chelsea were a brick show. Ange is a clueless amateur who has only done it in tinpot leagues and is now being found out in his first big job.
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But Chelsea are a brickshow in terms of ownership and the scattergun approach they applied, I don’t care enough about Chelsea to see what their fan’s rhetoric on Potter is but wouldn’t be surprised if they view Potter in the same way as we view Ange because he was a disaster for them.

My own personal opinion of Potter was Chelsea may have been just a bad fit, given the upheaval at the time and the body of work he did at Brighton, but I think confirmation either way can come with his current stint at West Ham which has been a mixed bag so far.

Ange, in my opinion, doesn’t have that body of evidence at an elite level apart from at Spurs ( and those world cups/european experience) and has been an extremly poor manager so far.
Given his failure to step up at this level so far, whilst amateur could be termed as harsh, it’s not massively inaccurate.
Like I said he reminds me a bit of Bob Bradley at Swansea.
It seems that people’s unwillingness to share the high opinion you have of him winds you up.
But take that aside, do you think he has done a good job since he has been here?
 
Silly McSilly Face said:
I think i simply seem to have hit a nerve. I didn't actually call him an amateur. I said that leaving our entire right flank completely open minute one away in a cup tie against a top 6 team was "amateur hour". That space was vacated by our first choice full back following tactical instructions (the gaps behind our full backs are constantly exploited and a tactical weak spot in the system that has been consistently hit by opposition teams since the early good run he enjoyed start of last season. That's not a factor to do with injuries, it's a fundamental weakness in the set up and philosophy AT THIS LEVEL. Playing an accurate ball over a high pressing midfield into the space behind isn't actually an easy pass for a non-top tier player. And it takes an element of risk/reward to tell your winger to not track our full back into our half but let him go and sit in the vacated space. It's no surprise therefore that the higher up you go the more likely these gaps are going to be regularly exploited.
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I think you're now trying be disengenuous because you realise it is absurd to make statements about him which suggest he 'doesn't care' about structure and engages in what you perceive as 'amateur hour' tactics.
 
Silly McSilly Face said:
Ok I'll answer the question: Tony Pullis for me. I've got a niggling need to see from how far out Porro can throw a ball into the opposition's penalty area...
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That was not the question (or even a question) I asked.

You have illustrated exactly what I was saying i.e. when challenged with a question/questions which don't comfortably fit your own worldview, you ignore or deflect.

Here are the questions I actually asked:

<<...perhaps you should be asking why so many upper level professionals at our club hired someone who, according to you, is 'amateur hour' with no interest in fundamental structures? Any thoughts? Or are they 'amateurs' too?>>
 
thfcsteff said:
That was not the question (or even a question) I asked.

You have illustrated exactly what I was saying i.e. when challenged with a question/questions which don't comfortably fit your own worldview, you ignore or deflect.

Here are the questions I actually asked:

<<...perhaps you should be asking why so many upper level professionals at our club hired someone who, according to you, is 'amateur hour' with no interest in fundamental structures? Any thoughts? Or are they 'amateurs' too?>>
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I would be interested to know who had the heaviest influence to push Angel’s case.
Was it Munn?
 
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