Ange in or out?

[Finney Is Back]

I had much more sympathy last season re the injuries. I’d never known anything like it! Every time we got an injured player back, 2 more got injured. It was often a net loss. But it has continued into this season so that is why I don’t really have a lot of sympathy because it appears to be at least some of Ange’s doing. How many players have we lost to due to heavy/bad tackles? I can only think of one which was Bentancur against Villa last season. The rest of them appear to break down in training or in matches. As I mentioned in the injury thread, Solanke has had two spells out already having stated every game for Bournemouth last season, one of the spells was before the Europa League started so we can’t even use Europe as an excuse for that one. Not to mention Maddison couldn’t complete 90 minutes in any game before his injury against Chelsea last season. Something isn’t right, whether it’s Ange’s methods, the medical staff, the conditioning or a combination of the above. It’s just not sustainable to keep signing players if there just going to get injured so frequently.

Very few injuries in football are the result of bad tackles.

 

[Silly McSilly Face]

Yes but your statement of “I've posted on here that we don't have a single player in the top 20 for minutes played and only 2 in the top 50” Is factually incorrect so I’m not sure why you are repeating it?

It's not factually incorrect. Premier league minutes for our players with ranking out of all PL players:
1) Pedro Porro (rank 37th): 1,986 mins
2) Dejan Kulusevski (rank 44th: 1,951 mins
3) Dominic Solanke (rank 110th): 1,601 mins
4) Son Heung Min (rank 113th): 1,589 mins
5) Brennan Johnson (rank 130th): 1,497 mins)
6) Destiny Udogie (rank 145th): 1,436 mins
7) James Maddison (rank 170th): 1,305 mins
Needless to say we are now well into generic midtable now.

If you extend it out to all competitions and appearances this season, then Dejan Kulusevski has the most minutes played this season with 2491 minutes played for us and Sweden.

He's 13th out of all PL players in minutes played across all comps.

Our next player is significantly down the list (Pape Sarr). Porro is next of our players and drops off due to lack of international minutes compared to the other two.

So overall in terms of minutes played our players are not out of kilter with what you'd expect a player playing for a PL club qualified for Europe to play. The issue may come more from the demands of the particular system we play. But not pure minutes played

 

[Raziel]

It's not factually incorrect. Premier league minutes for our players with ranking out of all PL players:
1) Pedro Porro (rank 37th): 1,986 mins
2) Dejan Kulusevski (rank 44th: 1,951 mins
3) Dominic Solanke (rank 110th): 1,601 mins
4) Son Heung Min (rank 113th): 1,589 mins
5) Brennan Johnson (rank 130th): 1,497 mins)
6) Destiny Udogie (rank 145th): 1,436 mins
7) James Maddison (rank 170th): 1,305 mins
Needless to say we are now well into generic midtable now.

If you extend it out to all competitions and appearances this season, then Dejan Kulusevski has the most minutes played this season with 2491 minutes played for us and Sweden.

He's 13th out of all PL players in minutes played across all comps.

Our next player is significantly down the list (Pape Sarr). Porro is next of our players and drops off due to lack of international minutes compared to the other two.

So overall in terms of minutes played our players are not out of kilter with what you'd expect a player playing for a PL club qualified for Europe to play. The issue may come more from the demands of the particular system we play. But not pure minutes played

As always, you can look at it from different view, the chart below someone put together of games played since last international break.

Some takeaways

- Only person with more minutes than Porro is a keeper
- Spurs has 3 of top 5
- Maybe the most interesting piece, no Liverpool, Forest or Chelsea player in top 15 most minutes played (City & Liverpool only have 1 each in top 20)

 

[metalgear]

Ah but we’ve scored 100 PL goals since then and have the best GD outside the top 7… echoes of glory?!

View attachment 18858

If only goals quantity and goal difference can get you into champions league. 3 points for a win and no points for a loss is what we have to work with.

 

[metalgear]

Letting him ruin next season as well will be the real disaster.

Starts with the next transfer window...where we are appearing less attractive to good players

 

[Benny_Lad]

Conceding 1.5 goals a game means we'd need to score over that every game to win. That's not realistic or sustainable.

I don't accept 'my CB that's the quickest player in the league is out, so my defensive system is broken' as a reasonable excuse for a tactic breaking down either. Or even a tactic really.

You dont have to accept it. But the reality is we average around 2 points a game when VDV and Romero start together and about 1.2 when at least one of them is missing.

 

[Benny_Lad]

Have a look how Bournemouth are managing, and Saudi Sportswashing Machine's injuries were worse than ours last year, yet they finished 7th. Do you not agree we have dropped many points even we have presented a better team than the opposition. The fact is our manager's tactics resemble that of a bunch of school kids running around the playground. There is little motivation, little structure, little organisation, and no leadership. If you can't see that you haven't been watching the games. In my opinion this manager is the worst we have ever had, and we have had a fair few bad ones

Is this the Bournemouth that have only had the injuries for a few weeks and played 11 games less?

Again, I'm neither here nor there on Ange, but its apples and oranges.

 

[Kandi1977]

Of course they are…until you think about it with a bit of logic and realise they’re all fudging knackered because they can’t get a break.

How some fail to recognise this is just baffling!

 

[Silly McSilly Face]

As always, you can look at it from different view, the chart below someone put together of games played since last international break.

Some takeaways

- Only person with more minutes than Porro is a keeper
- Spurs has 3 of top 5
- Maybe the most interesting piece, no Liverpool, Forest or Chelsea player in top 15 most minutes played (City & Liverpool only have 1 each in top 20)

Anyone can pick a moment in time and say "but look". Gakpo has played the highest number of minutes of any PL player this season and a number of Liverpool and Chelsea players are ahead of our highest (Kulusevski). So it's likely they were used extensively beginning of the season to build up momentum and cohesion before more rotation came into play as the fixture list piles up mid season.

Now appreciating that our injuries have bitten as it gets busy (not a coincidence for me with a playing and training style already close to the red zone - we got hit with injuries at almost the exact same point last season) and that means we are unable to rotate effectively at this stage it does strike me that we appear to have done the OPPOSITE to the teams that have been most successful this season- we appear to have rotated more early doors which hasn't helped consistency early in the season and then still burnt out and got shafted with injuries as the fixtures ramped up....

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Anyone can pick a moment in time and say "but look". Gakpo has played the highest number of minutes of any PL player this season and a number of Liverpool and Chelsea players are ahead of our highest (Kulusevski). So it's likely they were used extensively beginning of the season to build up momentum and cohesion before more rotation came into play as the fixture list piles up mid season.

Now appreciating that our injuries have bitten as it gets busy (not a coincidence for me with a playing and training style already close to the red zone - we got hit with injuries at almost the exact same point last season) and that means we are unable to rotate effectively at this stage it does strike me that we appear to have done the OPPOSITE to the teams that have been most successful this season- we appear to have rotated more early doors which hasn't helped consistency early in the season and then still burnt out and got shafted with injuries as the fixtures ramped up....

I posted some info of actual minutes played this season in total… so not to be specific
It showed that spurs have players who have played more than anyone
Do the other games not count?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1889056321292431501

 

[billyiddo]

Taking Porro as an example, asides from the period where Spence was injured there has been a straight option to spread his minutes out. Even while Udogie has been injured and Spence has been covering LB, Regulion could have had more minutes, allowing Spence to play RB.

We're obviously in a tight spot regarding injuries but examples like Porro above it just highlights that we aren't making sensible decisions.

 

[paxtonwolf]

As always, you can look at it from different view, the chart below someone put together of games played since last international break.

Some takeaways

- Only person with more minutes than Porro is a keeper
- Spurs has 3 of top 5
- Maybe the most interesting piece, no Liverpool, Forest or Chelsea player in top 15 most minutes played (City & Liverpool only have 1 each in top 20)

You take Raya out of that who is a keeper and his role is nowhere as exerting as an outfield player, our trio of players has more minutes than the rest by a fair distance.

You have to got to think that one of Porro, Gray or Kulsevski are about to breakdown/pick up an injury sometime soon

 

[Svess]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1889056321292431501

I was ready to read "..combined" in the end haha

 

[Silly McSilly Face]

I posted some info of actual minutes played this season in total… so not to be specific
It showed that spurs have players who have played more than anyone
Do the other games not count?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1889056321292431501

My info is actual minutes played in total across both club and international games. Kulusevski and Sarr have played more minutes than Porro has this season when you include international minutes for their countries. Kulusevski was 19th out of all PL players for total minutes played and 16th of outfield players. PL outfield players in order with most minutes across club and international games:
1) Moises Calcedo
2) Ilya Zabarnyi
3) Nathan Collins
4) Virjil Van Dijk
5) Bruno Guimaraes
6) Ealing Haaland
7) William Saliba
8) Marc Guehi
9) Nikola Milenkovic
10) Josko Gvardiol
11) Daniel Munoz
12) Antonee Robinson
13) Bryan Mbeumo
14) Bruno Fernandes
15) Dejan Kulusevski
Source: Transfermarkt
Interestingly when you extend results to all of Europe Luka Voskovic has played the most minutes of any Spurs player so far this season. He is 38th in Europe having played 2565 minutes across club and international appearances

 

[Bedfordspurs]

My info is actual minutes played in total across both club and international games. Kulusevski and Sarr have played more minutes than Porro has this season when you include international minutes for their countries. Kulusevski was 19th out of all PL players for total minutes played and 16th of outfield players. PL outfield players in order with most minutes across club and international games:
1) Moises Calcedo
2) Ilya Zabarnyi
3) Nathan Collins
4) Virjil Van Dijk
5) Bruno Guimaraes
6) Ealing Haaland
7) William Saliba
8) Marc Guehi
9) Nikola Milenkovic
10) Josko Gvardiol
11) Daniel Munoz
12) Antonee Robinson
13) Bryan Mbeumo
14) Bruno Fernandes
15) Dejan Kulusevski
Source: Transfermarkt
Interestingly when you extend results to all of Europe Luka Voskovic has played the most minutes of any Spurs player so far this season. He is 38th in Europe having played 2565 minutes across club and international appearances

How do you get that on that site? All I can get is premier league minutes
It’s a great site but the way. So much in there

 

[Muttley]

My info is actual minutes played in total across both club and international games. Kulusevski and Sarr have played more minutes than Porro has this season when you include international minutes for their countries. Kulusevski was 19th out of all PL players for total minutes played and 16th of outfield players. PL outfield players in order with most minutes across club and international games:
1) Moises Calcedo
2) Ilya Zabarnyi
3) Nathan Collins
4) Virjil Van Dijk
5) Bruno Guimaraes
6) Ealing Haaland
7) William Saliba
8) Marc Guehi
9) Nikola Milenkovic
10) Josko Gvardiol
11) Daniel Munoz
12) Antonee Robinson
13) Bryan Mbeumo
14) Bruno Fernandes
15) Dejan Kulusevski
Source: Transfermarkt
Interestingly when you extend results to all of Europe Luka Voskovic has played the most minutes of any Spurs player so far this season. He is 38th in Europe having played 2565 minutes across club and international appearances

Out of interest, do they include the mins over 90 mins?

On WhoScored I see the following for domestic + international.
Porro 3010 mins
Sarr 2208 mins
Kulu 3269 mins

That feels about right to me, especially Sarr who has been rotated and subbed a lot. He's definitely not played more than the other 2.

 

[johnola]

My info is actual minutes played in total across both club and international games. Kulusevski and Sarr have played more minutes than Porro has this season when you include international minutes for their countries. Kulusevski was 19th out of all PL players for total minutes played and 16th of outfield players. PL outfield players in order with most minutes across club and international games:
1) Moises Calcedo
2) Ilya Zabarnyi
3) Nathan Collins
4) Virjil Van Dijk
5) Bruno Guimaraes
6) Ealing Haaland
7) William Saliba
8) Marc Guehi
9) Nikola Milenkovic
10) Josko Gvardiol
11) Daniel Munoz
12) Antonee Robinson
13) Bryan Mbeumo
14) Bruno Fernandes
15) Dejan Kulusevski
Source: Transfermarkt
Interestingly when you extend results to all of Europe Luka Voskovic has played the most minutes of any Spurs player so far this season. He is 38th in Europe having played 2565 minutes across club and international appearances

Are you saying we are not working the players hard enough or that they shouldn’t be tired?

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Out of interest, do they include the mins over 90 mins?

On WhoScored I see the following for domestic + international.
Porro 3010 mins
Sarr 2208 mins
Kulu 3269 mins

That feels about right to me, especially Sarr who has been rotated and subbed a lot. He's definitely not played more than the other 2.

Not form what j could see as it had every present players minutes being a 90 minute factor

 

[Finney Is Back]

It's not factually incorrect. Premier league minutes for our players with ranking out of all PL players:
1) Pedro Porro (rank 37th): 1,986 mins
2) Dejan Kulusevski (rank 44th: 1,951 mins
3) Dominic Solanke (rank 110th): 1,601 mins
4) Son Heung Min (rank 113th): 1,589 mins
5) Brennan Johnson (rank 130th): 1,497 mins)
6) Destiny Udogie (rank 145th): 1,436 mins
7) James Maddison (rank 170th): 1,305 mins
Needless to say we are now well into generic midtable now.

If you extend it out to all competitions and appearances this season, then Dejan Kulusevski has the most minutes played this season with 2491 minutes played for us and Sweden.

He's 13th out of all PL players in minutes played across all comps.

Our next player is significantly down the list (Pape Sarr). Porro is next of our players and drops off due to lack of international minutes compared to the other two.

So overall in terms of minutes played our players are not out of kilter with what you'd expect a player playing for a PL club qualified for Europe to play. The issue may come more from the demands of the particular system we play. But not pure minutes played

So (as I said before) Your statement of "I've posted on here that we don't have a single player in the top 20 for minutes played and only 2 in the top 50” is factually incorrect

Use the other statement if you want "overall in terms of minutes played our players are not out of kilter with what you'd expect a player playing for a PL club qualified for Europe to play"

But don't keep on peddling the original comment that has been proven to be incorrect.

 

[Raziel]

My info is actual minutes played in total across both club and international games. Kulusevski and Sarr have played more minutes than Porro has this season when you include international minutes for their countries. Kulusevski was 19th out of all PL players for total minutes played and 16th of outfield players. PL outfield players in order with most minutes across club and international games:
1) Moises Calcedo
2) Ilya Zabarnyi
3) Nathan Collins
4) Virjil Van Dijk
5) Bruno Guimaraes
6) Ealing Haaland
7) William Saliba
8) Marc Guehi
9) Nikola Milenkovic
10) Josko Gvardiol
11) Daniel Munoz
12) Antonee Robinson
13) Bryan Mbeumo
14) Bruno Fernandes
15) Dejan Kulusevski
Source: Transfermarkt
Interestingly when you extend results to all of Europe Luka Voskovic has played the most minutes of any Spurs player so far this season. He is 38th in Europe having played 2565 minutes across club and international appearances

Yes, but the data I presented is last 20 games

So what it shows is as the season got more congested others were able to rotate, we weren't.