Ange in or out?

[Raziel]

Oddly enough, it's not really the tactics I'm worried about. It's a bit of a mixed bag but it could work. It did work for a time. It's the injuries that concern me. We've had a lot of those and I'm afraid they're the result of the system he's been using (and will continue to use). We'll never get a squad big enough to cover for that level of injuries so, for me, he's not a long-term option. I don't really mind him though. So long as there's no better option available and/or we don't get sucked into a relegation battle, he's as good as anybody else.

If I were in charge though, I'd use that time to identify someone I'd bet on in the long run. Again, for me, the injuries are a result of how we play and he's just too reluctant to rotate for this to work in the long run.

Lets talk this through, to me

Tactics - on one end, the ceiling for his model has been proven, I'd argue our best games have been better than anything in modern era that wasn't simple an elite player (Bale. Modric, Son, Kane) bailing us out. The challenge is two things tactically -> consistency (could be squad depth/balance) and ability to put away lower level sides (no space, work ethic is extremely high, time wasting/fouls)
Squad - Similar to tactics, for the system, first 11 has shown itself to be good enough, with some concerns around balance (midfield or L/RW choices can throw off system). Also real concerns around injuries
Peers - this is interesting, I think the current set of upcoming managers seem to be better than in recent years (a few years ago, Potter would have been a top pick, now I don't think he'd get a mid table job), so we have a few mid level clubs punching above their level which we will be compared to.
Club expectations - while we fans seem to believe we have some magical influence on club decisions/targets, we don't. I said it early in season, we didn't buy Gray, Bergvall, Wilson, Yang expecting result this season, our purchases seem very much to build a squad in 18-36 months not now

Personally, outside of utter collapse, I think he's got to the end of season, I think if he's smart, the cups become must win now, club probably needs to make a couple of decent purchases in Jan as well wot have any hope of recovering the season.

 

[We are Tottenham]

The correlation is as soon as anything negative happens it’s because:
He is fat Aussie clown shoe
He has never managed at this level
Daniel levy is an evil dwarf
ENIC out
Our manager is a fraud
The club is poison
The mentality is weak
We lack leaders
Ange can’t look at a camera
We pay the highest ticket fees in the galaxy so we should have better
We can only play one way

I’m sure there are a million other ones to add

What I do know is if we were to sack Ange one of the first things the new manager would be saying is we are rebuilding and it takes time
But as long as it’s a new guy the perception is better.
It’s all a bit odd to me but I’m sure if that happened with the said currently we would be back in the same position in 18 months time

others to add...

We concede from corners
We concede before the game starts
Our goalie keeps getting stamped on
Our defense keeps leaving the far post unmarked
We don't have any leaders ..whoops bin said
were *****
were rebuilding for the long term future
our banners and flags suck
No killing instinct in front of goal
too many chances missed every game.
we keep chanting yiddo all the time instead of Tottenham
Positives.
We have a great Stadium
At least the away fans turn up
London Transport generally sucks for us at home games..hang on! getting a bit off topic now...Coys...

 

[SpurMeUp]

And one manager in 25 years who has had their contract extended, according to a podcast I listened to yesterday. Not sure if that’s correct. Pretty damning if it is.

How much of that is on the Board and how much on the fans?

Here we have a pretty entitled thread, with many fans who feel think they should have better. I agree Levy should give managers more time, but shouldn’t you extend the same logic to fans patience with our leaders?

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Where did you see that quote?
I ask because Ali Gold did his usual transcript of the press conference, where this was said in relation to the fans :

Do you feel like the majority of supporters are behind you?

They're not behind me, they're behind the club. I've got no interest in who's behind me. You got to figure the ones who travel to Bournemouth are pretty hardcore supporters, they weren't happy with what they saw, they felt like they needed to give me some feedback, I took the feedback on board and we move on.

What is your message to the fans?

As I said last night, no message. I'm here, I'm going to fight to make sure we bring success to this football club. Nothing really changes. Whether there's doubt, whether that's internally or externally, it just makes my resolve even stronger to get it right.

Does it concern you that the fans are not seeing the progress you get to see in working with the players every day?

Again, the supporters are the supporters, they're invested in this club whoever is in charge, whichever the playing group is. They will feel what they feel, whether they can see what we're trying to do or not. I can't change that materially without there being evidence on the pitch that they can see. If they can't see it at the moment then it's up to me to make sure they can see it.

You copped some unacceptable abuse last night and lots of frustration. Even though you had eight players out, you want to win every week and it’s one win in six, how much are you hurting right now?

I’m not hurting, I am determined and that’s all. I don’t want to say it is unacceptable because like I said, it is what it is. I have lived in this world for long enough to know that when people aren’t happy, they’ll express their opinions and I am never going to hide. I am never going to shirk that responsibility, that’s fine. I will take on board. Is it nice? No, because like I said last night I am not just a manager, I am a human being like everyone else and none of us like to hear those sorts of things, but it is what it is. It doesn’t disappoint me, it doesn’t frustrate me, it doesn’t make me angry. I am just as determined as ever to get it right, not because of that but because of my resolve to bring success to the football club.

--------

None of that matches with "I've no interest in what the fans think" - but maybe there was a different interview/press conf from which that was taken?

See
Now this is exactly what I want when I say lots of our fans read one line and that’s it
Shame some of our fans don’t want to look beyond that line even if it’s misquoted or made up
Romano did that the other week
Completely made up something and everyone brought it

 

[SpurMeUp]

There is one positive to this latest defeat: we are now 400-1 to win the league

I’m going to put a fiver on. It will be a push to qualify for CL if we’re honest. It’s a tough league.

Yes with a full squad - with Richarlison, Odobert, Moore, Bentancur, Romero, VDV - I think we would have won last night. The players who did play just seemed fatigued.

 

[Baleforce]

True
But the squad needs 22/23 players
You have forgotten odobert too and Ashley Philips (I think he was brought in Anges time)
But we have lost
Kane - replaced by Dom
PEH - replaced by gray in theory or bentcaur stepping into the DM role
Skipp - see above
Gil - he did play last year and is replaced by oderbert who is out as we know
Royal - technically replaced by Spence or Gray you could argue
Dier - Dragusin

I think I’ve captured everyone but the key wasn’t adding quality it capable quantity. All the ones who have Left couldn’t play Ange ball

And he also inherited Sarr and kulu and Davies and richarlison

nobody who is left or new seems to be able to play it either

 

[Bedfordspurs]

nobody who is left or new seems to be able to play it either

I disagree
But when you see them in isolation with other changes to the team the issue gets exaggerated
We played well in Europe with 10 men because the team was fresh
But when they are all being stretched physically and also being asked to play the most demanding football with no cover it goes wrong
It’s exactly why Ange needed to rotate more

 

[Muttley]

It's still IN for me even though Ange does seem to be doing his best impression of Eddie Jones at the moment.

Where we find ourselves isn't down to chairmen, transfer budgets, squad depth, injuries / suspensions and all that jazz. It is down to Ange and his tactics. It is ironic that Iraola's boys puts all the pressure on Ange by doing the one thing that Ange doesn't seem to respect enough and that is getting a clean sheet. It is Ange that is getting to define what "football" we want as a club. It's not actually the club anymore. You have to admit, there is a mismatch when allw e ever do is talk about his tactics.

Munn has a tough job. He has to sit down with Ange and figure out he can help him. He also needs to get Ange to help himself by adopting some first principles from the managers playbook. Those principles that he clearly is choosing to ignore.

Right now, I wouldn't place money on Ange being in role next season.

 

[Raziel]

It's still IN for me even though Ange does seem to be doing his best impression of Eddie Jones at the moment.

Where we find ourselves isn't down to chairmen, transfer budgets, squad depth, injuries / suspensions and all that jazz. It is down to Ange and his tactics. It is ironic that Iraola's boys puts all the pressure on Ange by doing the one thing that Ange doesn't seem to respect enough and that is getting a clean sheet. It is Ange that is getting to define what "football" we want as a club. It's not actually the club anymore. You have to admit, there is a mismatch when allw e ever do is talk about his tactics.

Munn has a tough job. He has to sit down with Ange and figure out he can help him. He also needs to get Ange to help himself by adopting some first principles from the managers playbook. Those principles that he clearly is choosing to ignore.

Right now, I wouldn't place money on Ange being in role next season.

It's very weird, because what you say is true.

My interesting take, is this version of Spurs probably has the best chance to win a trophy (not CL/top 4 space), because our style suits better teams (unlikely you will keep clean sheet anyway), space suits us and the team seems to get up for it. Unlike previous better versions of Spurs that got close and went out with a whimper at SF/finals. Feels like watching one of those United/Chelsea seasons that most days they were brick, but somehow come out the end of season with a trophy.

And if he wins a trophy, will be super hard to not see him start next season

 

[RunTMC]

It’s interesting reading this thread. It feels like Ange In has a slight advantage but the poll itself is conclusively Ange In, currently almost 82%.

I wonder if this site is a fair reflection of the wider fanbase or we might just be delusional.

BTW Ange firmly In for me.

 

[Muttley]

It's very weird, because what you say is true.

My interesting take, is this version of Spurs probably has the best chance to win a trophy (not CL/top 4 space), because our style suits better teams (unlikely you will keep clean sheet anyway), space suits us and the team seems to get up for it. Unlike previous better versions of Spurs that got close and went out with a whimper at SF/finals. Feels like watching one of those United/Chelsea seasons that most days they were brick, but somehow come out the end of season with a trophy.

And if he wins a trophy, will be super hard to not see him start next season

And therein lies the problem. The best managers can almost play 3 systems in 3 different phases of the same game. They can flick that switch and the players know what to do. You often see the changes based on when goals go in. Admittedly, we have to let Ange have the time to get to that point in his tenure. My sense though is that point might never come as Ange hasn't had to think like that in all his previous roles. His Plan A with repetition, repetition, repetition has just worked. It does with us as well in certain games e.g. City. It clearly doesn't in the toughest league in the world.

Ange's current tactics and thought process are not sustainable. Munn, Lange and his own coaches need to get that across to him otherwise he will be getting a P45 soon.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

It’s interesting reading this thread. It feels like Ange In has a slight advantage but the poll itself is conclusively Ange In, currently almost 82%.

I wonder if this site is a fair reflection of the wider fanbase or we might just be delusional.

BTW Ange firmly In for me.

This isn’t a great sample
Now go on X and you will see the whole range

 

[Bedfordspurs]

And therein lies the problem. The best managers can almost play 3 systems in 3 different phases of the same game. They can flick that switch and the players know what to do. You often see the changes based on when goals go in. Admittedly, we have to let Ange have the time to get to that point in his tenure. My sense though is that point might never come as Ange hasn't had to think like that in all his previous roles. His Plan A with repetition, repetition, repetition has just worked. It does with us as well in certain games e.g. City. It clearly doesn't in the toughest league in the world.

Ange's current tactics and thought process are not sustainable. Munn, Lange and his own coaches need to get that across to him otherwise he will be getting a P45 soon.

That’s what you can see at Liverpool
But I’ve not seen other managers do it that quickly
I think the key there is no change to the squad which is highly unusual

 

[Chrissivad]

This isn’t a great sample
Now go on X and you will see the whole range

I feel x leans further the other way than on here.

They want everyone gone

 

[Muttley]

That’s what you can see at Liverpool
But I’ve not seen other managers do it that quickly
I think the key there is no change to the squad which is highly unusual

I guess it is how you define quickly. We're 18 months in now and as other fans keep reminding us we only bought one first team ready player in the second summer. Shouldn't we be seeing way more positive signs on the tactical side by now?

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I guess it is how you define quickly. We're 18 months in now and as other fans keep reminding us we only bought one first team ready player in the second summer. Shouldn't we be seeing way more positive signs on the tactical side by now?

I’m talking specifically about your comment on how we play in game and that management of the phases on the game

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I feel x leans further the other way than on here.

They want everyone gone

100%
But a lot more people on there
Mostly just there to shout though but that’s not an untypical spurs fan

 

[SkipRat]

Do you think Kulu and vdV will stay in the summer if we really hit those depths?

No great loss

 

[SkipRat]

See
Now this is exactly what I want when I say lots of our fans read one line and that’s it
Shame some of our fans don’t want to look beyond that line even if it’s misquoted or made up
Romano did that the other week
Completely made up something and everyone brought it

Sorry, but when you have no striker on the pitch, and leave one on the bench until 2 mins left remaining in the game.

You are not fit to lead a PL club.

With the Injuries and knackered players we have... We could have started the game with

Solanke

Werner ---- Maddison ---- Johnson

Gray ------ Sarr

Udogie ---- Davis ---- Dragu ---- Djed​

Bergvall could come on for Maddison
Lankshear for Solanke
Reg for Udogie, if he is spent.

Ange has no game, team management at all, he refuses to use the whole squad to his advantage, in order to keep our best players in tip top condition.

The injuries we have are not a problem

The problem is poor team management, loaing out our 4th defender (Phillips).... Why the feck was Gray forced to play as a CB? Yet, I have people crying on other forums etc... That Philips is not ready to play CB? Really? And Gray is?

It's an absolute joke.

The guy has to go, he is never going to change... I dont care if it is at the end of the seasons or whatever... Moring after the final match... Gone....

No point building something if have zero nuance on how to use it.

 

[stratnumberone]

I want to be ‘Ange in’ but I can’t be because I cannot see any progress.

He refuses to adapt, overcome and therefore improve. It’s no use refusing to find a ‘Plan B’ when it’s abundantly clear that ‘Plan A’ isn’t working.

I’ve no idea what - if any - defensive coaching the players are getting. You simply cannot be successful at any half decent level of football if you can’t defend properly.

He’d rather play youngsters out of position (Gray being the prime example) than use his squad. This is damaging in the short term (because it weakens the side) and longer term (it can’t be helpful in the development of a teenager to be constantly battered by opponents because he’s out of position and being targeted as a weak link).

These things happen game after game but his stubbornness won’t allow him to change anything. We all know what they say about doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result….