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Ange in or out?

Ange in or out?

  • In

    Votes: 83 77.6%

  • Out

    Votes: 24 22.4%
  • Total voters
    107
Mikey10 said:
I keep being told that “the underlying data is good,” but every statistic that I see suggests that we are dogshi t.
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The underlying data is good, i.e.

- We create chances, we score goals, we win the ball, we have great possession, we run, we press

The issue is all of that is for nothing if the system leaves you exposed for 5 minutes of 90 and you concede 2 goals. The biggest issue is the lack of any level of game management, it's feels like some level of Bielsa ball
 
Raziel said:
The underlying data is good, i.e.

- We create chances, we score goals, we win the ball, we have great possession, we run, we press

The issue is all of that is for nothing if the system leaves you exposed for 5 minutes of 90 and you concede 2 goals. The biggest issue is the lack of any level of game management, it's feels like some level of Bielsa ball
Click to expand...

Exactly! I ask what is the difference between Bielsa and Ange actually, part bfrom trophies won?
Also, does Ange compare favourably to Roberto Martinez??
 
I said at the start of the season, I think he will get us 10th with 50 points. I took a step back from all things spurs after the Roma game, I was getting too angry, and tbh the performances were having an effect on my home life.

As much as I love spurs, and as much as I big up certain players, we are quite crap and it is inconsequential tbh.

We will be crappish for the next 2 seasons, guaranteed. Only then can we judge how we are doing. This is due to mismanglement of the squad, long term, ie DL problem mixed with a bunch of directors and win now managers.

I appreciate he has stepped back (DL), allegedly, from the footblall side, honestly I will wait and see on that.

Ange, I dislike him, he does deserve time, but I am getting very close to calling for his head.
I am not sure that he is the correct person to build the squad, mainly because he kills them. Just looking at our front 3, we have 6 ppl plus kulu, moore and lanks, despite this he wants another striker and cant field anyone across the front 3 for 90 mins, thats 9 players for the front 3, needing subbed.

On top of this we dont actually have a RB, we have Porro (winger) and Gray (18 Mid masquerading as Rb/Cb/Lb). Our central Def is fudged, see Gray but no 2 yr older Dorrington/Phillips etc.

Dragon, whom I am fed up hearing from his agent, said the injuries are down to how we train and play.

We need time to rebuild, I am patient for that, however I think that our players will be dead on arrival in 2 years or wanting out.

In for the minute, believe me it is only a minute. As much as I expected the points/position that we have, the performances are fudging woeful and I believe that will be the killer.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
His football can look exciting in highlights but it’s long ball I agree
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Have to admit I have voiced an opinion about bringing Frank in on here but thinking about it that is based on "an impression" based on MOTD and Brentford always giving us a hard time when we play them more than anything else. Those stats don't paint Ange or Frank in a positive light.
 
Cundies undies said:
I said at the start of the season, I think he will get us 10th with 50 points. I took a step back from all things spurs after the Roma game, I was getting too angry, and tbh the performances were having an effect on my home life.

As much as I love spurs, and as much as I big up certain players, we are quite crap and it is inconsequential tbh.

We will be crappish for the next 2 seasons, guaranteed. Only then can we judge how we are doing. This is due to mismanglement of the squad, long term, ie DL problem mixed with a bunch of directors and win now managers.

I appreciate he has stepped back (DL), allegedly, from the footblall side, honestly I will wait and see on that.

Ange, I dislike him, he does deserve time, but I am getting very close to calling for his head.
I am not sure that he is the correct person to build the squad, mainly because he kills them. Just looking at our front 3, we have 6 ppl plus kulu, moore and lanks, despite this he wants another striker and cant field anyone across the front 3 for 90 mins, thats 9 players for the front 3, needing subbed.

On top of this we dont actually have a RB, we have Porro (winger) and Gray (18 Mid masquerading as Rb/Cb/Lb). Our central Def is fudged, see Gray but no 2 yr older Dorrington/Phillips etc.

Dragon, whom I am fed up hearing from his agent, said the injuries are down to how we train and play.

We need time to rebuild, I am patient for that, however I think that our players will be dead on arrival in 2 years or wanting out.

In for the minute, believe me it is only a minute. As much as I expected the points/position that we have, the performances are fudging woeful and I believe that will be the killer.
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This. This. This. If you think the players are enjoying playing and training this way I suspect they do not. Even if they did at first the constant stress injuries will have them worried. Their short careers are on the line and you can only twang your hamstring so many times before you'll end up with chronic muscle inflammation and your career is basically f***ed. I think that explains the recent "sick of excuses" comments. I think the players have probably been asking him to tone it down a bit recently and I suspect Werner and Romero have been singled out as they are the ones likely raising concerns as two of the more experienced senior players in the squad. There's clearly some degree of disquiet building between players and coach.

I said at the beginning of the season that like you I expected our lowest league position and points total for many a season as nothing appeared to have changed from last season but I was content to give him the season as it was in some ways an entertaining rollercoaster. Before probably the board and players got tired of it. I've changed my mind on that as like you say the roller coaster has turned into a long straight track leading to a dark tunnel. The performances have been woeful recently and getting worse game by game. Something drastic needs to change very quickly for him to save his job. But as many have said I think he's a "live by the sword, die by the sword" kind of person.

I've come to the conclusion that Levy and the club have made yet another poor choice in terms of compatibility of a head coach for the club's philosophy.

While the on-pitch style is night and day in terms of footballing principles, Ange is another "my way or the highway" manager like Mourinho and Conte who wants to play in a rigid set way and needs very specific player attributes in every position to be successful.

As the club's transfer strategy is more "wheeler dealer"/opportunistic in approach they need another Redknapp/Jol/Poch who is more content to make do and bring younger players on and integrate them into a bit of a rotation of senior players and odds and sods transfers as the club "play" the market.
 
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Kompakted said:
Have to admit I have voiced an opinion about bringing Frank in on here but thinking about it that is based on "an impression" based on MOTD and Brentford always giving us a hard time when we play them more than anything else. Those stats don't paint Ange or Frank in a positive light.
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I really like Frank as a coach and a Person
But the football would have fans moaning again
 
Kandi1977 said:
Why should they get 5 years, but not Ange?
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Reality is anyone given any "time" in football is only going to be given that time while that time looks like it is going somewhere. Poch didn't really pull up trees in his first season but you could see the foundations building and things improved as the season went on with that 5-3 over Mourinho's Chelsea with all the young players brought in.

And that for me is a key difference in squad management between say, Poch and Ange.

People forget that Poch dropped Dembele, Capoue, Paulinho etc for Bentaleb and Mason.

That's because the younger players were willing to buy nto his philosophy and show that on the pitch, whereas the senior players maybe said the right things in training but on the pitch regressed to old habits. So he made a point. He sent out Townsend, Bentaleb, Mason and Kane to play an experienced and quality Chelsea team and they steamrollered them. Dembele, Soldado and Paulinho were all on the bench. That was the tipping point moment of Poch's time here.

The senior pros had to get on board or get out and the very notable one that played himself back into contention and became the fulcrum of the side was Dembele.

I contrast this to Ange who is refusing to use his whole squad and continues playing the senior pros even when they're not suited and not playing how he wants.

Someone has said Ange hasn't been fully backed and the squad doesn't fully suit how he wants to play. I agree, I think we look short on quality and have key weaknesses in Ange's system with the players we have. But you could adapt to what you have or use the younger players that ARE suited. For example, Lankshear is a far more suitable replacement for Solanke when he's out than sticking Son upfront when Ange's system clearly requires a traditional CF to work. Porro is not a right back and teams are constantly exploiting that now. Likewise it actually generally looks better when Werner plays out left than when Son does as again, Ange wants wingers that go outside to create space for the fullbacks to run into for the overload in the box.....but he'll continually play Son and Kulu out wide which f*** his own system....

I've said before that with the current squad a 3-5-2 makes the most sense with current personnel:

.......................Son......Solanke
.........Richarlison/Johnson/Lankshear

..............................Kulu
..........................Maddison

Udogie.....Bissouma.......Bentancur......Porro
Reguillon...Gray...........Sarr/Bergvall....Spence

.........VDV...........Dragusin.....Romero
........Davies.......youth players


That looks a lot more balanced and stronger for me with CB cover priority for Jan.

If you're going to have a fist at making Ange's system work i think he needs to turn to youth like Poch did. He needs to play Spence at RB not Porro and he needs a DM to anchor the chaos so he needs to start Gray there and stick with it warts and all. Just for starters....
 
Gazza said:
Because Ange has shown his in game management to be amateur, his stubbornness to be difficult to accept … what makes you think he deserves 5 years. I am all for getting a manager for a legacy but it has to be the right candidate… he’s just not it.
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We don't know yet if he's right or not. All managers have their principles, and stick with them. We're completely hamstrung (literally) by injuries. Results and performance at the moment will naturally be inconsistent. We need to be a little bit patient,and give a manager time to mould the team. Changing now would be utterly ridiculous. Ange should get next season too. You can't build a new team in 18 months!
 
Kompakted said:
Reality is anyone given any "time" in football is only going to be given that time while that time looks like it is going somewhere. Poch didn't really pull up trees in his first season but you could see the foundations building and things improved as the season went on with that 5-3 over Mourinho's Chelsea with all the young players brought in.

And that for me is a key difference in squad management between say, Poch and Ange.

People forget that Poch dropped Dembele, Capoue, Paulinho etc for Bentaleb and Mason.

That's because the younger players were willing to buy nto his philosophy and show that on the pitch, whereas the senior players maybe said the right things in training but on the pitch regressed to old habits. So he made a point. He sent out Townsend, Bentaleb, Mason and Kane to play an experienced and quality Chelsea team and they steamrollered them. Dembele, Soldado and Paulinho were all on the bench. That was the tipping point moment of Poch's time here.

The senior pros had to get on board or get out and the very notable one that played himself back into contention and became the fulcrum of the side was Dembele.

I contrast this to Ange who is refusing to use his whole squad and continues playing the senior pros even when they're not suited and not playing how he wants.

Someone has said Ange hasn't been fully backed and the squad doesn't fully suit how he wants to play. I agree, I think we look short on quality and have key weaknesses in Ange's system with the players we have. But you could adapt to what you have or use the younger players that ARE suited. For example, Lankshear is a far more suitable replacement for Solanke when he's out than sticking Son upfront when Ange's system clearly requires a traditional CF to work. Porro is not a right back and teams are constantly exploiting that now. Likewise it actually generally looks better when Werner plays out left than when Son does as again, Ange wants wingers that go outside to create space for the fullbacks to run into for the overload in the box.....but he'll continually play Son and Kulu out wide which f*** his own system....

I've said before that with the current squad a 3-5-2 makes the most sense with current personnel:

.......................Son......Solanke
.........Richarlison/Johnson/Lankshear

..............................Kulu
..........................Maddison

Udogie.....Bissouma.......Bentancur......Porro
Reguillon...Gray...........Sarr/Bergvall....Spence

.........VDV...........Dragusin.....Romero
........Davies.......youth players


That looks a lot more balanced and stronger for me with CB cover priority for Jan.

If you're going to have a fist at making Ange's system work i think he needs to turn to youth like Poch did. He needs to play Spence at RB not Porro and he needs a DM to anchor the chaos so he needs to start Gray there and stick with it warts and all. Just for starters....
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Show me a top level team that has been successful playing 3-5-2 in the last decade.
I'm waiting.......
 
Kandi1977 said:
Show me a top level team that has been successful playing 3-5-2 in the last decade.
I'm waiting.......
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I mean not sure that means it can't be successful. There are plenty of managers that are making 3-4-3 a success and all you really need to do around that with the formation i put out is get Kulu to join the attack from deeper while Son preserves his fading legs by staying higher close to Solanke. Alternatively you move it to 3-4-3 by playing Johnson and Son up with Solanke.
 
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