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Ange in or out?

Ange in or out?

  • In

    Votes: 81 42.6%
  • Out

    Votes: 109 57.4%

  • Total voters
    190
Sorry, you'll have to explain what you mean. You claimed that saying we lost 30 goals a season on average when Kane left was not accurate and provided information via the seasons he did not. I pointed out that in those seasons, he was injured, which obviously diminished the amount of opportunities he had to score those goals in those seasons. You continue to claim that Kane essentially 'slacked off/played solo/didn't give it his all' in his latter seasons with us, I responded by saying he was modifying his style of play to ensure he never had as many long injury spells again/protect his body. MY point is simple. I think you're wrong to write him off as someone who slacked off with us in his latter years, I saw him as modifying his game to avoid constant re-injury. Hopefully at least my point is clear now?

Nah, you said "guaranteed 25-30 goals" and then built a narrative around him always getting that if he didn't have injuries. I simply stated that he only got it twice in 6 years because of injuries and that is a reason why it is not guaranteed. It's a reality of being a footballer, especially in a tough PL environment when you're in your thirties. I'm not writing Kane off. I'm just grounding the conversation back to reality. Taking 25-30 goals to the bank is incorrect and in my mind not even fair to a player like Solanke.

This was the focused and original conversation. The other topics on Kane are simply tangential to the point I was making.
 
It's a shame that our injury record post-Kane has been so exemplary, we really could have done with him being here & having a clear run free from absences 😂
 
Nah, you said "guaranteed 25-30 goals" and then built a narrative around him always getting that if he didn't have injuries. I simply stated that he only got it twice in 6 years because of injuries and that is a reason why it is not guaranteed. It's a reality of being a footballer, especially in a tough PL environment when you're in your thirties. I'm not writing Kane off. I'm just grounding the conversation back to reality. Taking 25-30 goals to the bank is incorrect and in my mind not even fair to a player like Solanke.

This was the focused and original conversation. The other topics on Kane are simply tangential to the point I was making.


LOL, nothing is guaranteed in life, but given that Kane had two 30 Prem goals seasons (one of which was his last for us) and two more seasons where he hit 29 and 25 (not 30 but within the '25-30' range) I'd be prepared to wager that a fit and available Kane is a 30 league goal a season striker.

BTW, where does Solanke fit into this? Are you referring to him as a 'Kane replacement'? Nobody can replace a generational talent like Harry Kane. Dom is simnply a really decent CF who we waited a year to get. I don't think anybody ever thought he was going to be a goalscorer at Kane's rate, because not many of those exist.
 
It's a shame that our injury record post-Kane has been so exemplary, we really could have done with him being here & having a clear run free from absences 😂

The irony of your quip is that Kane modified his game to such an extent that I doubt he would've injured himself! It raises another useless-yet-fun (??????) hypothetical question as to whether Ange's 'system' would've been deployable had Kane remained at the club for one more season? Kane clearly hasn't been about aggressive repeat pressing for a while, and I doubt Ange would've left such a prolific and proven generational goalscorer on the bench. We will, of course, never know (so perhaps we file this along with the many other shreds of increasingly futile exchange which seem to be erupting from variuous finger - mine most certainlty included!!!!)...
 
The irony of your quip is that Kane modified his game to such an extent that I doubt he would've injured himself! It raises another useless-yet-fun (??????) hypothetical question as to whether Ange's 'system' would've been deployable had Kane remained at the club for one more season? Kane clearly hasn't been about aggressive repeat pressing for a while, and I doubt Ange would've left such a prolific and proven generational goalscorer on the bench. We will, of course, never know (so perhaps we file this along with the many other shreds of increasingly futile exchange which seem to be erupting from variuous finger - mine most certainlty included!!!!)...
Kane doesn't press for that very reason regarding injuries, he's the complete opposite of Solanke and Richi.

As for would Kane fit into Ange's system, I know it was just a friendly but those four goals during that 5-1 win against Shatskar Donetsk in his last game would suggest he would be fine :D.....
 
Kane doesn't press for that very reason regarding injuries, he's the complete opposite of Solanke and Richi.

As for would Kane fit into Ange's system, I know it was just a friendly but those four goals during that 5-1 win against Shatskar Donetsk in his last game would suggest he would be fine :D.....

Indeed!!!
The point I was looking to make in the mists of wherever that conversation ended up going, is that losing Kane on the eve of the season was a big blow for Ange given Kane's generational goalscoring talent (which we have seen continue in another league)...
 
LOL, nothing is guaranteed in life, but given that Kane had two 30 Prem goals seasons (one of which was his last for us) and two more seasons where he hit 29 and 25 (not 30 but within the '25-30' range) I'd be prepared to wager that a fit and available Kane is a 30 league goal a season striker.

BTW, where does Solanke fit into this? Are you referring to him as a 'Kane replacement'? Nobody can replace a generational talent like Harry Kane. Dom is simnply a really decent CF who we waited a year to get. I don't think anybody ever thought he was going to be a goalscorer at Kane's rate, because not many of those exist.

lol - cool, so it is not guaranteed. That was my whole point all along.

The Solanke reference is an interesting one actually. It more relates to your next post. Knowing what has been asked of Dom in this Ange system and knowing that we bought him on a data model approach, it can't be easy for him when it is just assumed Kane would have scored the goals that he hasn't. No compensation for Kane potentially having to adjust to the same training methods as the rest of the squad. No compensation for Kane being in his thirties and slowing down. I think we've done quite well as a set of fans not laying that at Solanke's doors. When you say things like Kane guaranteed 25-30 goals, that's when the pressure is built on our new striker. So if Kane had stuck around, we'll never knew whether Ange or Kane or both would have accommodated their styles for each other. What we do know is that Solanke plays to the current tactical system.

The more interesting conversation is which of the 2 styles is better for England. Some wouldn't even entertain that Watkins or Solanke could be selected over Kane. They are perhaps more of what the new England ballers like Bellingham, Saka, Palmer, Foden etc need around them. Do they need Kane's slower paced game and him floating around? There is a sum of the parts argument growing to transition Kane to the super-sub role or even ask him to give his best 60 mins before withdrawal. We must not see a situation like we saw in the last competition where we carrying a half fit and immobile Kane at the expense of a fit player. In England's case, the answer is hopefully coming in the next gen.
 
I’ll take anyone over no tactics Ange. We would be more solid with Frank and he will adapt depending on opponent.
This is my argument. Anyone of the seven dwarfs is likely to do a better job. We all know that we are being closely linked with Frank, and although that doesn't excite me, I fail to see how he can't be better than Ange
 
lol - cool, so it is not guaranteed. That was my whole point all along.

The Solanke reference is an interesting one actually. It more relates to your next post. Knowing what has been asked of Dom in this Ange system and knowing that we bought him on a data model approach, it can't be easy for him when it is just assumed Kane would have scored the goals that he hasn't. No compensation for Kane potentially having to adjust to the same training methods as the rest of the squad. No compensation for Kane being in his thirties and slowing down. I think we've done quite well as a set of fans not laying that at Solanke's doors. When you say things like Kane guaranteed 25-30 goals, that's when the pressure is built on our new striker. So if Kane had stuck around, we'll never knew whether Ange or Kane or both would have accommodated their styles for each other. What we do know is that Solanke plays to the current tactical system.

The more interesting conversation is which of the 2 styles is better for England. Some wouldn't even entertain that Watkins or Solanke could be selected over Kane. They are perhaps more of what the new England ballers like Bellingham, Saka, Palmer, Foden etc need around them. Do they need Kane's slower paced game and him floating around? There is a sum of the parts argument growing to transition Kane to the super-sub role or even ask him to give his best 60 mins before withdrawal. We must not see a situation like we saw in the last competition where we carrying a half fit and immobile Kane at the expense of a fit player. In England's case, the answer is hopefully coming in the next gen.

I thought it was obvious that nothing in life can be guaranteed? My point still stands (the one I was making!) which is that IF a manager was losing 25-30 goals a season in the Prem alone on the eve of his first league match, it would be a blow.
 
I thought it was obvious that nothing in life can be guaranteed? My point still stands (the one I was making!) which is that IF a manager was losing 25-30 goals a season in the Prem alone on the eve of his first league match, it would be a blow.
It wasn't really on the eve. He knew before he came in that Kane was going we all did.

What I do think is fair to say is that he didn't really get a replacement that season for what Kane offered. Instead we tried to use Richy (was never going to work) and Son to fill in the gap.
 
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