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Ange in or out?

Ange in or out?

  • In

    Votes: 95 63.8%

  • Out

    Votes: 54 36.2%
  • Total voters
    149
billyiddo said:
There were quotes recently from the Hibs physio - was he not saying that Ange would sometimes ignore their recommendations if he felt the player was ready? (And take responsibility for the decision) I can't find the quotes now if anyone has them to hand?
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Dunno about Hibs, Celtic and us? He was on Five Live and that wasn't what I heard?
 
braineclipse said:
Agreed.

And I think those problems have been compounded further by who has been injured. Not just some of our best players, but vital players in terms of ball progression and creativity.

That's also where the squad is short in terms of quality, particularly among the players who aren't teenagers.

We severely missed a dribbly creative winger profile last season. Brought in Odobert who fits that profile, Moore another one who was heading towards more game time. Still short squad wise, but then both got injured/ill.

We also lack ball progression deep in midfield. Our best non teenager there is Bentancur, who then also has missed most of the season.

Then losing Romero and Vic. With Forster and Dragusin having their weaknesses with passing and being comfortable under pressure.

Had we missed Sarr and Johnson instead of Bentancur and Odobert for example we'd still be feeling the effects of that. But less of a cumulative effect I think. Romero is really important no matter what, but less so with more ball progression in the middle and dribbly creativity wide.
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Johnson is our top scorer so it would have been huge
 
Nothing in the discussions here or the growing leaks out there leave me with any other conclusion that he will not survive with us and is close to the end.
 
thfcsteff said:
https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/6077551/2025/01/23/tottenham-injury-crisis/

A pretty comprehensive overview with some 'he said/she said' stuff regarding Geoff Scott. If the information about VdV and Romero v Chelsea is true, I wonder how much the pressure valve building would've influenced such a foolish move by Ange...because if he actually did go against medical advice, then it was a huge fudge up on his part.
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It's a very good article.

On one side of the argument, none of us are experts in this field so the danger is that our opinion gets coloured by our view of Ange. Also, you'd imagine if Levy was watching multi million pound assets getting flogged by the manager, he'd be in the manager's ear in no uncertain terms. Maybe he is.

That said, we can only form an opinion based on the information in the public domain. Fact is, we have an abnormally high number of hamstring and muscle injuries. Fact is, Ange has had these problems elsewhere and has admitted, at times, that his style can sometimes cause these injuries. I think it's fanciful to think that the way we play has little or nothing to do with the amount of injuries we have.

Even if you accept Ange has no responsibility for the injuries through his style of play, it's very hard to make a case that he hasn't managed his squad incredibly badly to the point of negligence. Not playing Spence for months and not picking him in the squad for EL, throwing VdV and Romero back in against Chelsea, his over-reliance on Solanke. I'd add his use of Reggie albeit I know there is a decent counter argument to that. That's fairly epic mismanagement of his resources in my opinion.

In my view, he's got to go. I'd love him to turn it around but I've absolutely no faith that he will and I strongly believe that the mess he has on his hands from an injury point of view is one that is at least partially and in my opinion, largely, of his own making. And that, in my view, is rank bad management before we even touch on results which are beyond unacceptable.
 
thfcsteff said:
https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/6077551/2025/01/23/tottenham-injury-crisis/

A pretty comprehensive overview with some 'he said/she said' stuff regarding Geoff Scott. If the information about VdV and Romero v Chelsea is true, I wonder how much the pressure valve building would've influenced such a foolish move by Ange...because if he actually did go against medical advice, then it was a huge fudge up on his part.
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From what I remember last season he was quite careful about bringing players back from injuries.

Same now with Richarlison it seems.

I think the pressure made him make decisions he otherwise wouldn't have made.

I don't think it's a particular Ange problem. There's a lot of these marginal calls for managers, and I think a lot of them take risks they shouldn't sometimes.

But I do hope he's learned from that.
 
braineclipse said:
From what I remember last season he was quite careful about bringing players back from injuries.

Same now with Richarlison it seems.

I think the pressure made him make decisions he otherwise wouldn't have made.

I don't think it's a particular Ange problem. There's a lot of these marginal calls for managers, and I think a lot of them take risks they shouldn't sometimes.

But I do hope he's learned from that.
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From what I heard on the pod (I’ll try to find it)
The fitness guy inferred it was always a judgement call
The example was a Scottish cup final game and a Japanese player mentioned above
He also said Ange knows his sports science form his time in Oz… don’t know what or how of course
 
braineclipse said:
From what I remember last season he was quite careful about bringing players back from injuries.

Same now with Richarlison it seems.

I think the pressure made him make decisions he otherwise wouldn't have made.

I don't think it's a particular Ange problem. There's a lot of these marginal calls for managers, and I think a lot of them take risks they shouldn't sometimes.

But I do hope he's learned from that.
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IF the Romero/VdV thing was on him, then I'd say it was a bad mistake and yes, I believe at the time I speculated that pressure/perceived lack of support might've been a factor. I also felt he was acting on info given. As you said he was actually more careful than not last season.

But the narrative is done now...as, I fear, he might be too...
 
DeanoAustin said:
It's a very good article.

On one side of the argument, none of us are experts in this field so the danger is that our opinion gets coloured by our view of Ange. Also, you'd imagine if Levy was watching multi million pound assets getting flogged by the manager, he'd be in the manager's ear in no uncertain terms. Maybe he is.

That said, we can only form an opinion based on the information in the public domain. Fact is, we have an abnormally high number of hamstring and muscle injuries. Fact is, Ange has had these problems elsewhere and has admitted, at times, that his style can sometimes cause these injuries. I think it's fanciful to think that the way we play has little or nothing to do with the amount of injuries we have.
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Up to this point I'm in full agreement.

I think these issues aren't specific to Ange. Similar things were said about Conte's training methods iirc.

There's a balance to strike. A spectrum with an acceptable range in the middle. Some managers get labelled as too relaxed, prioritising short term fitness and getting results, but long term the players suffer with their fitness levels.

Ange may not be striking that balance correctly, but I don't think there's reason to believe he's getting it clearly wrong.
DeanoAustin said:
Even if you accept Ange has no responsibility for the injuries through his style of play, it's very hard to make a case that he hasn't managed his squad incredibly badly to the point of negligence. Not playing Spence for months and not picking him in the squad for EL, throwing VdV and Romero back in against Chelsea, his over-reliance on Solanke. I'd add his use of Reggie albeit I know there is a decent counter argument to that. That's fairly epic mismanagement of his resources in my opinion.

In my view, he's got to go. I'd love him to turn it around but I've absolutely no faith that he will and I strongly believe that the mess he has on his hands from an injury point of view is one that is at least partially and in my opinion, largely, of his own making. And that, in my view, is rank bad management before we even touch on results which are beyond unacceptable.
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Here I disagree. Incredibly badly, to the point of negligence, issues largely of his own making, rank bad management...

I'm sure he's made multiple mistakes, all managers do. We can agree and disagree on we what they are. I don't think he's made a lot of them.

I still have faith he can turn it around. But I think he needs some luck short term, both results and injuries to be in a position to do so.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
From what I heard on the pod (I’ll try to find it)
The fitness guy inferred it was always a judgement call
The example was a Scottish cup final game and a Japanese player mentioned above
He also said Ange knows his sports science form his time in Oz… don’t know what or how of course
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Always a judgement call resonates with my very limited understanding.

I don't think Ange is particularly bad on these things overall.
thfcsteff said:
IF the Romero/VdV thing was on him, then I'd say it was a bad mistake and yes, I believe at the time I speculated that pressure/perceived lack of support might've been a factor. I also felt he was acting on info given. As you said he was actually more careful than not last season.

But the narrative is done now...as, I fear, he might be too...
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I agree on the first part.

Narratives change. I don't have fear on this, only on who we would then appoint. But he's not done until he's done.
 
thfcsteff said:
Nothing in the discussions here or the growing leaks out there leave me with any other conclusion that he will not survive with us and is close to the end.
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I guess the question becomes when is there enough time left in the season to get away with an interim coach / caretaker? At the moment it feels too long to be operating with an in-house caretaker but would certainly work if someone like Dyche took the reins for 3-4 months and got paid appropriately.

I think Ange will navigate the next 2 games actually.
 
Muttley said:
I guess the question becomes when is there enough time left in the season to get away with an interim coach / caretaker? At the moment it feels too long to be operating with an in-house caretaker but would certainly work if someone like Dyche took the reins for 3-4 months and got paid appropriately.

I think Ange will navigate the next 2 games actually.
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I like Dyche as a person.
I do not want him here.
 
We're not Dyche desperate. Neither in our position or who we reasonably could be expected to attract.

Any one of the names being speculated about other than Frank would be better imo.
 
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