Ange departs

[parklane1]

The points are the points and can’t be defended but can have some context added if we want to recycle and start arguments
What I’ll say is unlike, any manger in the last 15 or so years he got the team to turn up when it mattered. That’s been the exception at this club
And now the next man will come in

It has been for sure, i will always remember that he gave me one of the best nights for a very long time watching Spurs.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

It has been for sure, i will always remember that he gave me one of the best nights for a very long time watching Spurs.

And it really really shouldn’t be overlooked
Who cares who we played, we should enjoy that we won

 

[Lilbaz]

It has been for sure, i will always remember that he gave me one of the best nights for a very long time watching Spurs.

100%. Up there with beating ajax and beating city to get a cl place. Over the last decade or so.

 

[thfcsteff]

I think with respect, it’s a slightly romantic view to think we stood a good chance, I thought we had a small chance if everything went right for us but in the cold light of day, I don’t think we went into that game evenly matched. But it’s a measure of how good Poch had us at the time that we were being talked about in the same conversation. We were on different arcs by the time of the final, Liverpool very much in form and on the up curve while we were not in great form and on the downward curve.

No respect necessary.
It is both a romantic view and also one that is not without merit.
Were the curves starting to switch? yes. But we had 'bested' Liverpool for the previous 4 seasons. It was not optimism without foundation at all.
We can either agree to disagree or debate further

 

[parklane1]

And it really really shouldn’t be overlooked
Who cares who we played, we should enjoy that we won

It seems to me that some had worked themselves into that much of a frenzy about how crap Ange was they missed the joy of actually winning something.

 

[parklane1]

100%. Up there with beating ajax and beating city to get a cl place. Over the last decade or so.

Indeed.

 

[thfcsteff]

We were absolutely massive underdogs what the hell?

I see.
Thanks for clarifying that.

 

[thfcsteff]

Depends how you define 'massive underdogs', but I had no faith whatsoever we would beat that Liverpool side with our broken team shuffling along.

I agree with that.

 

[thfcsteff]

We're acting like the decision was made after the final.
The decision would have been made well before. Just let him see out the season till the manager we want becomes available in the summer.
Great decision. We won a trophy. Brilliant. He left head held high.
But he was gone before that. Which even the die hard ange in fans must have realised at the time.

I spent some time saying exactly that, albeit it is my belief that this place became (and to an extent remains) so 'tribal' that people only saw 'I like him' or 'I hate him'...much like 20fudging25, there is no room for dialectics or middle ground anymore, and I am getting increasingly frustrated by it (BTW this is a general remark and certainly not specifically directed at you mate)...

 

[Lilbaz]

I spent some time saying exactly that, albeit it is my belief that this place became (and to an extent remains) so 'tribal' that people only saw 'I like him' or 'I hate him'...much like 20fudging25, there is no room for dialectics or middle ground anymore, and I am getting increasingly frustrated by it (BTW this is a general remark and certainly not specifically directed at you mate)...

We all appreciate him winning the europa. But it has to be in or out. You can't have an inbetween decision.
Those that wanted him to stay. I get why.
I wanted him gone because i didn't want what i thought would be an incredibly painful upcoming season.
Not sure why we need to keep going over it. Nobody is going to change their view or the outcome.

 

[thfcsteff]

We all appreciate him winning the europa. But it has to be in or out. You can't have an inbetween decision.
Those that wanted him to stay. I get why.
I wanted him gone because i didn't want what i thought would be an incredibly painful upcoming season.
Not sure why we need to keep going over it. Nobody is going to change their view or the outcome.

I don't disagree at all.
My personal line in the sand will be when the official announcement is made of the next manager, however the actual discussions about him were done a while ago. Like you, I saw the other viewpoint too. I am relieved we did not do the 'let's give him 10 games and see' rubbish. This is at least a definitive move and clean break. SO yes, once Frank is confimed, onwards!

 

[BrainOfLevy]

You can't have a system that literally depends on the fasted player in Europe to function. Yes, if Porro, Romero, VDV, Udogie was fit for every game, plus we bought a Rodri level #6, plus an elite LW, Ange might win the league, but that just isn't realistic.

The way we win the league under ENIC is the same way any of Arsenal (who fudged up their chances), Chelsea, Saudi Sportswashing Machine do, build as good a side as you can, and hope to take advantage of an off season by City/Pool.

Ange understands tactics, he just hasn't accepted the ceiling of his, for 29+ years his system has worked, and doubling down each time has paid off. The issue is at the PL level, it's been found out, opposition teams are tactically aware enough to counter, and capable of converting at a rate that the number of chances his system gives up is not sustainable. The fact that we won the EL by playing a completely different formation and by focusing on not conceding vs outscoring opponent (especially in last 4 games), shows regardless of if he admits it or not (or like your argument, if I had a few less injuries or 1 or 2 better players, it would work), the system has a ceiling.

I just don’t agree, but that’s ok. I do wonder whether the fans in Japan thought his style worked in Australia but wouldn’t work in their league. Especially when they were tracking towards the bottom in his first season. But it ended up working.

I’m not sure why for example if the system had been found out, we won comfortable against teams like Villa at the start of this season? Why didn’t Pep stop us? Why couldn’t Amorim do it in 4 chances? Please don’t say that Amorim didn’t have his squad or Pep was having a bad year, because I would assume that a system that blatantly has a ceiling would be figured out by any team but especially those top coaches. Clearly when it worked, it really worked. And I would have liked to see it given the opportunity to work through a whole season without a historic injury crisis.

I also don’t see why we can’t have a system that depends on one of the fastest players. We signed that player. We can rely on him! Other teams were able to play their first choice centre backs for most of the league season. Why is Ange not allowed to benefit from his signing?

I have no proof that it would have worked out with Ange, but I do believe that it would have eventually. It’s just faith. But it’s the same sort of faith that Arsenal placed in Arteta after an 8th place finish. Now that are consistently top 2.

I think it’s just wishful thinking to think we are ever winning the league under ENIC. We need City and Liverpool to both falter, and Arsenal and Chelsea to fall behind us too, all in the same season. And we need to get to that position after chopping managers every couple of years in order to maintain our stability in the top 6. And we need to assume United don’t leverage superior finances. I just don’t buy it. We give up truly believing in a vision and giving the managers the tools they need to progress any time they get close.