Andros Townsend

[90291Spur]

Re: Official - Townsend

We should have, he would have been another "Young" type purchase for United.

Townsend appears to be that typical English player, pace, promise but not the application or mental ability to make that final step up.

To one of the other posters, we can and do play counter attacking, but having a guy who is 75% not going to pass doesn't help that aspect either

Yup. Of course. I think he has made 20/30 appearances for us so I am sure you are correct that he won't make that 'final step up'. Did you say the same about Bale when he was seemingly unable
to 'make that final step up'? I'm not suggesting that Townsend will become Bale but I find it laughable that fans write off players when they are so inexperienced.

 

[Raziel]

Re: Official - Townsend

Yup. Of course. I think he has made 20/30 appearances for us so I am sure you are correct that he won't make that 'final step up'. Did you say the same about Bale when he was seemingly unable
to 'make that final step up'? I'm not suggesting that Townsend will become Bale but I find it laughable that fans write off players when they are so inexperienced.

Actually I didn't, not saying I have even a 50% record, but Bale was bit more obvious, higher rated as a youngster, his first game for us was memorable, he had more to his game.

Townsend has a number of poor loans, and one "good" spell, his biggest problem for me is he makes **** decisions continuously and still has a fair amount of work to do on his game.

 

[90291Spur]

Re: Official - Townsend

Actually I didn't, not saying I have even a 50% record, but Bale was bit more obvious, higher rated as a youngster, his first game for us was memorable, he had more to his game.

Townsend has a number of poor loans, and one "good" spell, his biggest problem for me is he makes **** decisions continuously and still has a fair amount of work to do on his game.

Understood, but those loans, apart from QPR, were in lower divisions and he is still very inexperienced in the Premier League. Bale before his radical change in forms, also made ****e decisions, went to ground easily, played with his hair and was on the brink of being sent to Forrest or Brum. My point is that Townsend has clearly shown skill, fearlessness, determination and in my opinion potential. To write him off because of faults common to young players seems very previous.

 

[braineclipse]

Re: Official - Townsend

Yup. Of course. I think he has made 20/30 appearances for us so I am sure you are correct that he won't make that 'final step up'. Did you say the same about Bale when he was seemingly unable
to 'make that final step up'? I'm not suggesting that Townsend will become Bale but I find it laughable that fans write off players when they are so inexperienced.

I still think Townsend is a promising player, but I don't think any comparisons to Bale do him any favours.

Players develop at different tempo, but Townsend isn't some 18 year old kid, he'll be 23 in the summer and he's only two years younger than Bale.

For now Townsend's next 'step up' is to make himself good enough to be a regular starter for us.

 

[Cochise]

Re: Official - Townsend

At 23 Bale was roasting Maicon then?? I just want to see Andros getting some good crosses in at the moment. Right now the shooting all the time thing is letting him down

 

[90291Spur]

Re: Official - Townsend

I still think Townsend is a promising player, but I don't think any comparisons to Bale do him any favours.

Players develop at different tempo, but Townsend isn't some 18 year old kid, he'll be 23 in the summer and he's only two years younger than Bale.

For now Townsend's next 'step up' is to make himself good enough to be a regular starter for us.

I only mention Bale because there was a time when he had 'The Curse of Bale' with his record 21-ish Premier league games without being on the winning side, was being actively touted to mediocre clubs
and getting all kinds of 'he's not good enough' stick from some on this forum. Townsend may not improve, but it's too early to tell, and the fact that he is prepared to work hard and play without fear suggest he MIGHT get better, especially with good coaching.

 

[Modric THFC]

Re: Official - Townsend

I only mention Bale because there was a time when he had 'The Curse of Bale' with his record 21-ish Premier league games without being on the winning side, was being actively touted to mediocre clubs
and getting all kinds of 'he's not good enough' stick from some on this forum. Townsend may not improve, but it's too early to tell, and the fact that he is prepared to work hard and play without fear suggest he MIGHT get better, especially with good coaching.

He not gonna develop the passing ability and technique he's missing at 22.

 

[lurker of old]

Re: Official - Townsend

To write him off because of faults common to young players seems very previous.

Ok but loan him out. The guy should be NOWHERE near Spurs first team. He doesn't have the talent IMHO. Maybe at Stoke he would be a superstar but not in a top 10 team, let alone a top 5 team. No goals, no assists, nothing whatsoever....except promise?

 

[braineclipse]

Re: Official - Townsend

At 23 Bale was roasting Maicon then?? I just want to see Andros getting some good crosses in at the moment. Right now the shooting all the time thing is letting him down

More like 21 when he was roasting Maicon actually.

I only mention Bale because there was a time when he had 'The Curse of Bale' with his record 21-ish Premier league games without being on the winning side, was being actively touted to mediocre clubs
and getting all kinds of 'he's not good enough' stick from some on this forum. Townsend may not improve, but it's too early to tell, and the fact that he is prepared to work hard and play without fear suggest he MIGHT get better, especially with good coaching.

Sure, but the comparison falls apart very quickly. Like I said all players won't develop along the same schedule, but comparing Townsend to Bale in just about any way is just setting him up to fail.

It seems a lot of wingers break through early though, it's just easier to get game time and half way consistent performances can be carried by the team a lot easier than for other positions.

Townsend has pace, dribbling ability and he strikes the ball really well with his left and impressively well with his weaker right foot too. That can take a winger pretty far, add hard work, teamwork and at least you have a very useful squad player - perhaps much more.

It's about time that he starts improving his decision making though, or he'll find that valuable game time harder and harder to get I think.

 

[scaramanga]

Re: Official - Townsend

I thought that Townsend's shooting was him being terrible at decision making, turns out that a central shot from outside the box has as much chance of a positive effect for the team as any other option. The only thing that beats it is a weighted through ball through the middle and I don't think it's fair to expect him to be able to do that every time.

In fact a goal only comes from that area one in every 40 attempts. So a successful average shot success of 2.9% from that area is better than average.

That's not to say he can't work on his shooting, but maybe his decision making isn't as bad as we might initially suspect.

 

[braineclipse]

Re: Official - Townsend

I thought that Townsend's shooting was him being terrible at decision making, turns out that a central shot from outside the box has as much chance of a positive effect for the team as any other option. The only thing that beats it is a weighted through ball through the middle and I don't think it's fair to expect him to be able to do that every time.

In fact a goal only comes from that area one in every 40 attempts. So a successful average shot success of 2.9% from that area is better than average.

That's not to say he can't work on his shooting, but maybe his decision making isn't as bad as we might initially suspect.

That's ignoring the chance of scoring in any given situation and looking only on the position in isolation.

Massive difference between a quick snap shot in a bit of space and the shot after 7 touches giving defenders the chance to close down, in my opinion at least.

 

[GrimsbyYid]

Re: Official - Townsend

I think Towsnend is PAINFULLY over rated, two good England performances have fooled people I reckon, he looked quite dangerous for is at the beginning of thje season but produces nothing, but also doesn't defined like Lennon can or get really involved. He's so one dimensional.

I can't imagine him ever turning out to be anything other than average and should be no where near our first 11.

 

[scaramanga]

Re: Official - Townsend

That's ignoring the chance of scoring in any given situation and looking only on the position in isolation.

Massive difference between a quick snap shot in a bit of space and the shot after 7 touches giving defenders the chance to close down, in my opinion at least.

I think a lot of the closed down shots would be eliminated as blocked ones aren't included (as long as they're blocked in the section of the pitch from which the shot was taken). Equally, neither are blocked passes counted.

 

[Cotswold]

Re: Official - Townsend

I think Towsnend is PAINFULLY over rated, two good England performances have fooled people I reckon, he looked quite dangerous for is at the beginning of thje season but produces nothing, but also doesn't defined like Lennon can or get really involved. He's so one dimensional.

I can't imagine him ever turning out to be anything other than average and should be no where near our first 11.

Nail. Head.
Over-rated.

 

[braineclipse]

Re: Official - Townsend

I think a lot of the closed down shots would be eliminated as blocked ones aren't included (as long as they're blocked in the section of the pitch from which the shot was taken). Equally, neither are blocked passes counted.

Alright.

Which stats is it you're referring to?

I still think area of shot is still too simplistic, a headed chance under pressure from a corner will count the same as a through ball one on one with the goalie, no?

 

[scaramanga]

Re: Official - Townsend

Alright.

Which stats is it you're referring to?

I still think area of shot is still too simplistic, a headed chance under pressure from a corner will count the same as a through ball one on one with the goalie, no?

It's OPTA stats based on where the ball is played from, only taking into account possession of the ball.

http://www.optasportspro.com/about/...forum-–-long-range-shooting-as-an-option.aspx


Not entirely conclusive but certainly enough in my eyes to suggest that long range shots are nowhere near as pointless as I believed.

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

Re: Official - Townsend

Nail. Head.
Over-rated.

I love his go getting attitude but it is a crucial time for the lad because I think we will probably have a new coach next season and I imagine they are watching our matches now, he needs to offer more of a threat through assists even second assists or goals. If he does not starting progressing then he may find his way out like Johnson or Downing. He is not a bad player but he needs to make a step up.

 

[braineclipse]

Re: Official - Townsend

It's OPTA stats based on where the ball is played from, only taking into account possession of the ball.

http://www.optasportspro.com/about/...forum-–-long-range-shooting-as-an-option.aspx


Not entirely conclusive but certainly enough in my eyes to suggest that long range shots are nowhere near as pointless as I believed.

Nowhere near entirely conclusive I would say. At best marginally interesting mainly for nerdy reasons really.

The article writer highlights some of the obvious biases that could cause these results with this rather sketchy methodology, there are several others too. But in short good decision making goes way beyond "shot from here good, sideways pass bad", as I'm sure you know. His 30 second cut off clearly biases in the favour of the "get the shot off quickly" option. IIRC you've talked quite a bit about the value of keeping possession in the past, this is also completely and utterly ignored here.

Any analysis like this that doesn't involve knowledgeable people rating individual situations will be fairly close to useless imo. The top teams have top analysts in charge of looking for an edge and to evolve their game. Unless you have a truly world class striker of the ball very few top teams are moving in the "if in doubt just crash the ball goalwards" direction from what I've seen. When they do have world class long range shooters they seem to consciously spend time getting that player in a good shooting position, not just "a shooting position".

Trends like these from the top teams with top people involved in their decision making is more telling than an analysis like this that essentially controls for no confounding variables.

I think long shots are valuable and far from pointless, but they should be a part of an overall plan. And a player being as predictable as Townsend doesn't look good to me, it becomes fairly easy to defend against. You might say that Bale was predictable too, but he was quite simply different class. Chelsea's long balls to Drogba were predictable, but Drogba was so good it was difficult to stop anyway. By comparison Townsend's shots is like us re-signing Crouch and starting to lump it long towards him (and I rate Crouch higher than most).

 

[braineclipse]

Re: Official - Townsend

I love his go getting attitude but it is a crucial time for the lad because I think we will probably have a new coach next season and I imagine they are watching our matches now, he needs to offer more of a threat through assists even second assists or goals. If he does not starting progressing then he may find his way out like Johnson or Downing. He is not a bad player but he needs to make a step up.

Johnson is the perfect comparison.

A very obviously talented player with a similar skill set to Townsend, but utterly infected with poor decision making, selfish shot taking and poor defensive work rate.

It's what Townsend needs to do his utmost not to emulate, or his career trajectory will follow Johnson's I think.

Players with some clearly inferior skills in terms of striking the ball (Lennon) or a severe lack of pace (Milner) have carved out very good careers for themselves at a high level by being smart on the pitch, not being selfish and working their socks off.

 

[the dza]

Re: Official - Townsend

Hopefully, worst case scenario is that he can be a loyal squad player for us. I think home grown players can be very valuable in that regard (Fergie's Utd being a good example).