Andre Villas-Boas - Head Coach

[Bedfordspurs]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

442 with the team you suggest cannot be any worse to watch than what weve seen this season, plus large parts of last season

and it doesnt necessarily have to be 442...just 2 up front might make a difference whether its 442, 352, 4132 etc

I say this to my nephew and his team.... Football is very simply made complicated by coaches and pundits

When did 4-4-2 stop working - when teams went with 5 in midfield. Team like arsenal that still have 5 in midfield have mainly attack minded players in that set up

Out of the better sides only us and Chelsea look to have two defensive players in those roles (mikel and Ramirez)

Teams that do well are teams that attack in this league and that has to be better than trying to defend first and so shamboliclly

 

[AdamB]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

Plenty of the players, including Vertonghen looked like they had given up today and simply had had a gonad full. If its excruciating to watch it also cant be much fun to play in.

Agree - it looked today like the players realised today that its not working as well. If players lose belief in what the manager is doing then there's no hope.

6 goals in open play from 12 games. 9th in the table. Getting worse and worse. No attacking threat. He's had 15 months and not installed a system which looks remotely like being successful. We're a million miles from looking like a top 4 time, so far away that its a laughable notion that we could finish in the top 4

we should make the change now

 

[indianspur]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

I absolutely agree with that comment.
Regardless of patience or no-patience, today was a moment where he has left himself with nowhere to hide.
He made some brave decisions today and I cannot complain because he picked the exact team I wanted to see (in the You Are The Manager thread)…
For whatever reason they simply did not click. I could speculate that letting in a goal after 16 seconds from ostensibly a keeper error made the difference, but the truth is we were too slow in the build-up to bring the game back.

I was personally glad to see Ade back in the frame, as I had heard that AVB would not pick him again, however I'd guess that a month is a long time and that right now, he's going to be forced to make some very serious changes selection-wise.

It is an absolute watershed moment, and despite the fact I still maintain patience is required, realistically he will not get the time he needs, and as such, he needs to find a way to make things click very, very quickly…

He hasn't lost the players yet I don't think. They kept going, they kept pushing (just kept on getting done on the break by some superb counter-attacking) but players can be as fickle as fans so he's going to have shoot them with confidence and a system they feel COMFORTABLE in very very fast, that's for sure...

spot on =D>

 

[indospurs]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

The Emirates Marketing Project game showed up our two current weaknesses : weak defending at times, lack of firepower.

As a comparison, l'**** got shafted 8-2 at manyoo not too long ago, wenger was facing same, if not worse, than AvB is and will be facing now. Trouble is, wenger has a lot of experience in the league - now the proof is in the tasting for AvB, let's see what happens next. Still focus on defence, which isn't wrong, or figure out a way to get offensively threatening so the oppo isn't putting us on the back foot, and we actually figure out a way to start winning again.

I think Paulinho must be knackered, rest him ... and figure it out, who and whom should be in the middle. We have good and great players, now it's about mental fortitude and the manager getting the players self respect and confidence back again. All that pre-match hype about how well we did at eastlands - that was from a looong time ago, mark hughes and before him - we are quickly being shown the trademan's exit by teams like Emirates Marketing Project and the chavs.

GHod, this result makes me feel sick - we just cannot seem to score ... I want my Spurs back !

 

[thfcsteff]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

I admire you optimism Steff, even at times like this. I just wish I could emulate your single mindedness and hope.

Fact is, for the first time I detected the players have lost belief in AVB. The mutterings are that Dembele, Chadli and Verts have put in transfer requests already. If AVB has lost the dressing room, then it really is all over for him.

Absolutely agree, IF he has lost the dressing room you are bang-on…I'd be happy to see the back of Chadli to be fair, have not heard that of Verts so if true, yes, a shame.

I think he 'could' lose them soon unless he overhauls his ways, they certainly are playing with fear right now, but they do have to take some of the blame too…

And yeah Pirate, I don't know if it's optimism or a very stubborn belief that in a world which moves at 560mph, someone, somewhere has to show class and patience. The question now becomes whether the patience is justified given the increasingly slow slide backwards. I remember this time last season we lost to City away then **** away. We then went on a fabulous run. I don't for one moment suggest that will definitely happen, but we will soon find out who's got the character and strength to either carry on and deliver on the potential this squad has, or start filing away and hiding.

Interesting is one way of putting it, but I (like you I'm sure) could well do without the 'interest' of this nature!!!!!

 

[DubaiSpur]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

I absolutely agree with that comment.
Regardless of patience or no-patience, today was a moment where he has left himself with nowhere to hide.
He made some brave decisions today and I cannot complain because he picked the exact team I wanted to see (in the You Are The Manager thread)…
For whatever reason they simply did not click. I could speculate that letting in a goal after 16 seconds from ostensibly a keeper error made the difference, but the truth is we were too slow in the build-up to bring the game back.

I was personally glad to see Ade back in the frame, as I had heard that AVB would not pick him again, however I'd guess that a month is a long time and that right now, he's going to be forced to make some very serious changes selection-wise.

It is an absolute watershed moment, and despite the fact I still maintain patience is required, realistically he will not get the time he needs, and as such, he needs to find a way to make things click very, very quickly…

He hasn't lost the players yet I don't think. They kept going, they kept pushing (just kept on getting done on the break by some superb counter-attacking) but players can be as fickle as fans so he's going to have shoot them with confidence and a system they feel COMFORTABLE in very very fast, that's for sure...

I've been saying for a while that sacking him isn't the answer. I still believe that. Give him the season.

However, after this defeat, major changes are definitely needed. For one, take player recruitment away from him temporarily. In the January window, regardless of what he thinks, get a damn left-back to cover for or replace the eternally unfortunate Rose. Get a good one, too. Give this player to him and say 'f*cking use him, no arguments.' If possible, get a striker: tall, fast and powerful. Give this player to him and say 'now you have tactical variation off the bench: f*cking use it.' For another thing, tell him in absolute cast-iron terms to stop dingdonging about and make us practice corners more: as ever, today we were woeful at them.

I'd be hesitant to advocate the DoF/chairman advising managers on tactics, but if someone could slip him a 'friendly' word about scrapping his utterly woeful current system, that would be good too.

I agree with you, Steff: he has left himself with nowhere to hide. He has paid a heavy price for his own damn stubbornness and inflexibility. How he reacts will define him as a manager.

And the signs don't look good. At all.

 

[Kingdawson]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

I absolutely agree with that comment.
Regardless of patience or no-patience, today was a moment where he has left himself with nowhere to hide.
He made some brave decisions today and I cannot complain because he picked the exact team I wanted to see (in the You Are The Manager thread)…
For whatever reason they simply did not click. I could speculate that letting in a goal after 16 seconds from ostensibly a keeper error made the difference, but the truth is we were too slow in the build-up to bring the game back.

I was personally glad to see Ade back in the frame, as I had heard that AVB would not pick him again, however I'd guess that a month is a long time and that right now, he's going to be forced to make some very serious changes selection-wise.

It is an absolute watershed moment, and despite the fact I still maintain patience is required, realistically he will not get the time he needs, and as such, he needs to find a way to make things click very, very quickly…

He hasn't lost the players yet I don't think. They kept going, they kept pushing (just kept on getting done on the break by some superb counter-attacking) but players can be as fickle as fans so he's going to have shoot them with confidence and a system they feel COMFORTABLE in very very fast, that's for sure...

That's actually a fair and balanced post.

 

[indianspur]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

look, Emirates Marketing Project are not that great defensively, but Pellegrini has them so well coached going forward and by playing 2 up front which he has nearly always done in management he is getting some scintillating attacking moves out of his side

tbh thats all i want from AVB. i can put up with 3-2 defeats away to Cardiff and Villa if it means we are going thump other teams by 4,5 or 6

show some fcuking balls for petes sake

 

[Armchair Expert]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

Agree - it looked today like the players realised today that its not working as well. If players lose belief in what the manager is doing then there's no hope.

6 goals in open play from 12 games. 9th in the table. Getting worse and worse. No attacking threat. He's had 15 months and not installed a system which looks remotely like being successful. We're a million miles from looking like a top 4 time, so far away that its a laughable notion that we could finish in the top 4

we should make the change now

Yep, AVB's Tottenham has a battle on its hands to finish in the top half.

 

[AdamB]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

He's also sucked the enjoyment factor out of watching us play too. In previous seasons we were so entertaining to watch, created loads, free flowing.....it was fun to watch win or lose. Now when i watch us play at home i just hope we win but i also think 'please let us put on a display this week'. It was never like that before...now i just pray we actually play well whilst also hoping to win.

Agree. Its embarrassing. When we kick off, I now hope that we score so that we have a chance of winning 1-0. We're so poor going forwards and the stat about us having hundreds of shots is mis-leading as most of them are pot shots rather than clear chances

 

[ringo]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

Yep, AVB's Tottenham has a battle on its hands to finish in the top half.

I don't think it will be too much of a battle. I've also been critical of AVB's approach this season particularly having bought several new players, and still am. But having said that -unless the players really give up on him, we will still grind out enough results against other teams to finish in the top half.

It is just that with the players we have we could be doing a lot better, and playing more attractive football, and mid-table isn't good enough for the fans, or the owners. But I think - unless we get thrashed by Man U -AVB will get enough points between now and the New Year to hang onto his job for the rest of the season.

It is all so disappointing , though.

 

[thfcsteff]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

let me ask you something.....out of all the managers weve had since the PL era, Ardiles, Francis, Gross, Graham, Hoddle, Pleat, Santini, Jol, Ramos, Redknapp, how many would you have given more time to??? and how much more time would you have given??

A great question.

My HEART wanted Hoddle to succeed so much, but I knew he had to go after a 2-4 defeat the Chelski…out of all of that list, I'd have given Ardiles more time for sure, but politics were huge at the time (points deduction, etc)…Ramos hit personal issues, Santini was a figurehead placed by Arnese and Jol? Well, I'd have let him go that summer personally…Harry? The biggest tragedy in the sense that as I've said many times, he could've won things had he kept his eye on the prize, but for the long-term health of the club he had to go.

AVB has absolutely gone into a freeze-mould in the last month, and looks to be regressing. I suspect that being young, and a nervous type, he is amidst a personal crisis of confidence that will require every ounce of his managerial skills to keep from the squad. It doesn't look to be working. The thing I was saddest about today was seeing the lack of confidence in the side, the nerves, the fear of doing something wrong. He seems unable to arrest that slide right now.

I am not sure what the answer is honestly. I don't think it is to change the manager right now, I really don't, but the unfortunate thing about modern football is that the players almost dictate these situations, and if they want to stop believing/don't believe in a manager, then it becomes an inevitability.

We shall see…he still has my support, if only because I believe he needs the rest of the season to see what will happen and whether he can make his ideology work…but ultimately, players and their support (or not) will drive the train.

 

[thfcsteff]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

That's actually a fair and balanced post.

Thanks, I'd like to think beyond my blustery support I'm at least a tad realistic (to be fair, only Helen Keller could've missed the shame of today )

Yeah mate, I sadly think we (or more to the point, AVB) are now in the wake of the squad. If they want him there, if they believe in him, then he will remain. If they've lost faith, then it's a hard road back for him...

 

[thfcsteff]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

I've been saying for a while that sacking him isn't the answer. I still believe that. Give him the season.

However, after this defeat, major changes are definitely needed. For one, take player recruitment away from him temporarily. In the January window, regardless of what he thinks, get a damn left-back to cover for or replace the eternally unfortunate Rose. Get a good one, too. Give this player to him and say 'f*cking use him, no arguments.' If possible, get a striker: tall, fast and powerful. Give this player to him and say 'now you have tactical variation off the bench: f*cking use it.' For another thing, tell him in absolute cast-iron terms to stop dingdonging about and make us practice corners more: as ever, today we were woeful at them.

I'd be hesitant to advocate the DoF/chairman advising managers on tactics, but if someone could slip him a 'friendly' word about scrapping his utterly woeful current system, that would be good too.

I agree with you, Steff: he has left himself with nowhere to hide. He has paid a heavy price for his own damn stubbornness and inflexibility. How he reacts will define him as a manager.

And the signs don't look good. At all.

Indeed, nervy times for him much more than us as a club I'd say…DHFS was right when he used the phrase 'a watershed moment'…BTW, i hope the poor man hasn't been driven back to fags!!!!!!!!!

 

[billyiddo]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

I admire you optimism Steff, even at times like this. I just wish I could emulate your single mindedness and hope.

Fact is, for the first time I detected the players have lost belief in AVB. The mutterings are that Dembele, Chadli and Verts have put in transfer requests already. If AVB has lost the dressing room, then it really is all over for him.

where are are you hearing this? first i have heard of it

 

[DHSF]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

A great question.

My HEART wanted Hoddle to succeed so much, but I knew he had to go after a 2-4 defeat the Chelski…out of all of that list, I'd have given Ardiles more time for sure, but politics were huge at the time (points deduction, etc)…Ramos hit personal issues, Santini was a figurehead placed by Arnese and Jol? Well, I'd have let him go that summer personally…Harry? The biggest tragedy in the sense that as I've said many times, he could've won things had he kept his eye on the prize, but for the long-term health of the club he had to go.

AVB has absolutely gone into a freeze-mould in the last month, and looks to be regressing. I suspect that being young, and a nervous type, he is amidst a personal crisis of confidence that will require every ounce of his managerial skills to keep from the squad. It doesn't look to be working. The thing I was saddest about today was seeing the lack of confidence in the side, the nerves, the fear of doing something wrong. He seems unable to arrest that slide right now.

I am not sure what the answer is honestly. I don't think it is to change the manager right now, I really don't, but the unfortunate thing about modern football is that the players almost dictate these situations, and if they want to stop believing/don't believe in a manager, then it becomes an inevitability.

We shall see…he still has my support, if only because I believe he needs the rest of the season to see what will happen and whether he can make his ideology work…but ultimately, players and their support (or not) will drive the train.

Thats the problem Steff - I dont think his ideology of playing football by numbers is cut out for the premiership in particular. Its just too regimented. I did make a a big point about this, for AVB to succeed he needs to abandon those ideologies of his and change things around which means he needs to admit he is wrong (admit it to himself not in public perhaps). If his ideologies are set in stone and define him as a Manager then I dont see much light as the season goes on.

You make a great point about the players. I, at work, have been in both situations - as a 'player' and as a Manager. As a player I know that where I had no confidence in the Manager, I basically did not care less about the work I produced - I imagine thats where the players are currently. It is etched on their facial expressions - and one thing is for certain - unless you change things radically as a Manager, those players will not have the motivation nor the confidence.

 

[DHSF]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

Indeed, nervy times for him much more than us as a club I'd say…DHFS was right when he used the phrase 'a watershed moment'…BTW, i hope the poor man hasn't been driven back to fags!!!!!!!!!

ps - its DHSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSF not FSSSSSS - damnit.

pps - I did have a pack of ten yesterday when drinking... but none today. I have a feeling I turned into a social smoker - no cravins today at home - even with that pile of ****e on TV

 

[SlumDilla]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

I think re-evaluating his priorities will be very important for us. I would like for us to scrap the whole EL affair and focus on the league. A large reason for why Southampton are doing so well is that they do not have to worry about midweek EL games which allows them to have double sessions to instill that high energy/high tempo style. As things stand, AVB needs to seriously sit back and really ask himself whether or not playing well in the EL is worth these performances in the league.

 

[Jordinho]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

Ardiles brought in a lot of players, but couldn't make it work. Francis comes in and steadies us, but he's unable to take us further and we eventually begin to decline. I only mention this as it has some similarities with my next examples.

Skip through loads of rubbish and we arrive at 2004. Levy has done his homework and sets out to transform our club.

Santini came in and so did a LOT of players. Couldn't make it work, Jol takes over, but after a couple of season we slowly start to regress.

Ramos wins a cup, Comolli signs lots of player, but it doesn't work out. Redknapp comes in and saves the day, but again we start to stagnate after a while.

We have been, and will continue to, growing as a club, but growing pains are to be expected. We are moving upwards, but every now and then we hit a glass ceiling and take a bit of a knock. Every step up is always a little harder than the last and sometimes you have to take a step back to gain a bit more momentum. We've just had another big turnover of players and we're struggling to make a team out of them. Maybe it's us using AVB as a stepping stone? For every manager that has come and gone in the last 10 years, we've continuously been improving our squad. That's the real benefit of Levy not letting any one of them go crazy with his cheque book.

 

[Armchair Expert]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

I think re-evaluating his priorities will be very important for us. I would like for us to scrap the whole EL affair and focus on the league. A large reason for why Southampton are doing so well is that they do not have to worry about midweek EL games which allows them to have double sessions to instill that high energy/high tempo style. As things stand, AVB needs to seriously sit back and really ask himself whether or not playing well in the EL is worth these performances in the league.

The EL has been crucial in keeping the wolves from the door for AVB. Its given the illusion that we can score a few and win a few matches. I don't for one second agree we should ditch tournaments. I want us to win trophies. Our squad is absolutely massive in midfield, we need the extra matches to get everyone enough game time. Otherwise we'll get some seriously unhappy players.

Plus its just a craap excuse anyway. Did the EL effect us today? No.