Andre Villas-Boas - Head Coach

[thfcsteff]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

Come on AVB fan club, explain how that is us moving forward.

Clearly it was a really nervous performance where we got absolutely coated by direct football, played at speed and delivered via some fantastic finishing.

But one thing I hate MORE than **** days like this as a Tottenham Hotspur supporter, are people almost gloating like you appear to be, as if support and patience are things to be sneered at.

I don't give a flying f-u-c-k what ANYONE says OR thinks TBH, THIS is a moment that I will SUPPORT this club more than ever. As I have done many times in the past when the **** has hit the fan. Because as dark a day as this has been, we will come through and we will be stronger for it.

It appears that finally, some people have got their wish, because today (for the first time) I genuinely saw nerves and worry in both the team selection AND the display itself, which was riddled with nerves from two thirds of the side.

Let's hope we can develop a siege mentality, and let's hope EVERYONE does the right thing for the club...

 

[Armchair Expert]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

I alluded to this that this is a watershed moment. The consideration here is - is AVB too stubborn to change things around? I dont think tinkering is enough, I think it requires a radical change of his ideas and beliefs. That is the problem - it requires a move away from his beliefs and that means throwing away his playbook and changing his views - that is a radical shift - is AVB prepared to do this? I dont know. The whole 433 or 4231 or whatever formation and tactic he has deployed is a) not working and b) not fruitful enough. The players are not enjoying it and you can clearly tell on the pitch. AVB has overcomplicated football as a game and he needs to realise this.

He needs someone to sit him down and tell him that he needs to change his methods. It is a watershed moment for him in effect.

But don't all managers have their ideas and philosophies on how the game is played? If Wenger took over Stoke he wouldn't start playing long ball, he'd impose his style and methodology on the team. Its what a manager has to do: they must all have their on views on how the game should be played.

AVB can't just abandon his philosophy or principles- when it starts going wrong managers can't morph into different managers, that's why they get sacked.

If AVB was going to completely change the way he sets up teams (which he won't, and in my opinion can't) then we may as well get a new manager, because that's in effect what we'll have.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

"We've created so many chances before, and it's an ongoing conversation we have to make sure we have to finish up the chances."

I fear we will never improve when our manager is either unwilling or genuinely can't see the issues. In his mind our problem is that we can't finish the chances not that we create hardly any clear cut chances so he'll stick to his ideology. He will use shots on goal stats (like most that defend him) as some sort of conclusive evidence to back his weirdo way of thinking (much like he goes on about possession). It's like he doesn't want to ever admit he's getting it wrong..that's the frightening part about this.

We did create some decent chances in the last twenty but wasted them to be fair - nit that it would have made any difference

Is 4-4-2 actually the answer? I wouldn't be adversed to trying it but it would mean only one new signing playing IMO and that's a huge problem for AVB

I'd play a midfield 4 of Lennon, Sandro, Dembele and Townsend with Ade and Soldado up top

Would he be brave enough to do that?

 

[Armchair Expert]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

Clearly it was a really nervous performance where we got absolutely coated by direct football, played at speed and delivered via some fantastic finishing.

But one thing I hate MORE than **** days like this as a Tottenham Hotspur supporter, are people almost gloating like you appear to be, as if support and patience are things to be sneered at.

I don't give a flying f-u-c-k what ANYONE says OR thinks TBH, THIS is a moment that I will SUPPORT this club more than ever. As I have done many times in the past when the **** has hit the fan. Because as dark a day as this has been, we will come through and we will be stronger for it.

It appears that finally, some people have got their wish, because today (for the first time) I genuinely saw nerves and worry in both the team selection AND the display itself, which was riddled with nerves from two thirds of the side.

Let's hope we can develop a siege mentality, and let's hope EVERYONE does the right thing for the club...

But Steff, blind faith is also no garuntee whatsoever of success. If a manager is not up to it and is out of his depth then all the support in the world won't change that. The fans promptly responded to his criticism of the atmosphere and we were treated to abject display's against Hull and Sheriff, then a home loss against Saudi Sportswashing Machine.

You could stick with the wrong man and end up in the third division. Sometimes you have to pull the trigger...

 

[Kingdawson]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

But he is doing what most on here do - hell bent on statistics (and its no secret that I despise statistics). We have had the most shots on goal (which like you say AVB will use) but what AVB doesnt realise is that most of those shots are shots from ridiculous distances and angles and just pot shots because there was no other alternative for the player with the ball. Thats the crux of the issue.

I agree with everything you just said and have said the same thing for ages. Like i always say...i believe my eyes over any statsboard/opta stats ******** people try and throw into the equation (obviously there are some conclusive stats ie goal to game ratio etc etc).

 

[DHSF]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

But don't all managers have their ideas and philosophies on how the game is played? If Wenger took over Stoke he wouldn't start playing long ball, he'd impose his style and methodology on the team. Its what a manager has to do: they must all have their on views on how the game should be played.

AVB can't just abandon his philosophy or principles- when it starts going wrong managers can't morph into different managers, that's why they get sacked.

If AVB was going to completely change the way he sets up teams (which he won't, and in my opinion can't) then we may as well get a new manager, because that's in effect what we'll have.

Well then maybe and perhaps thats what needs to be done? AVB as a person will also need to review and evaluate his approach to football as a game if he is to be considered a success in future rather than a one season wonder (wtih Porto). He strikes me as a Ramos, personally.

I understand where you are coming from that he cant abandon them but from what i have seen, his philosophy seems wrong. I dont want AVB fired, I want him to have this season to change things around but the only way for that to happen is for progress and for progress to be achieved he will certainly have to change his beliefs (which as you say he cant do but sometimes we all have to do something we cant do). If he cant change his beliefs etc then sorry to say he was the 'wrong' man for the job.

 

[Kingdawson]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

But Steff, blind faith is also no garuntee whatsoever of success. If a manager is not up to it and is out of his depth then all the support in the world won't change that. The fans promptly responded to his criticism of the atmosphere and we were treated to abject display's against Hull and Sheriff, then a home loss against Saudi Sportswashing Machine.

You could stick with the wrong man and end up in the third division. Sometimes you have to pull the trigger...

The fans were singing the whole game whilst City fans were quiet as ****.....didn't stop them tonking us 6-0.

 

[indianspur]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

Clearly it was a really nervous performance where we got absolutely coated by direct football, played at speed and delivered via some fantastic finishing.

But one thing I hate MORE than **** days like this as a Tottenham Hotspur supporter, are people almost gloating like you appear to be, as if support and patience are things to be sneered at.

I don't give a flying f-u-c-k what ANYONE says OR thinks TBH, THIS is a moment that I will SUPPORT this club more than ever. As I have done many times in the past when the **** has hit the fan. Because as dark a day as this has been, we will come through and we will be stronger for it.

It appears that finally, some people have got their wish, because today (for the first time) I genuinely saw nerves and worry in both the team selection AND the display itself, which was riddled with nerves from two thirds of the side.

Let's hope we can develop a siege mentality, and let's hope EVERYONE does the right thing for the club...

let me ask you something.....out of all the managers weve had since the PL era, Ardiles, Francis, Gross, Graham, Hoddle, Pleat, Santini, Jol, Ramos, Redknapp, how many would you have given more time to??? and how much more time would you have given??

 

[Pirate55]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

Clearly it was a really nervous performance where we got absolutely coated by direct football, played at speed and delivered via some fantastic finishing.

But one thing I hate MORE than **** days like this as a Tottenham Hotspur supporter, are people almost gloating like you appear to be, as if support and patience are things to be sneered at.

I don't give a flying f-u-c-k what ANYONE says OR thinks TBH, THIS is a moment that I will SUPPORT this club more than ever. As I have done many times in the past when the **** has hit the fan. Because as dark a day as this has been, we will come through and we will be stronger for it.

It appears that finally, some people have got their wish, because today (for the first time) I genuinely saw nerves and worry in both the team selection AND the display itself, which was riddled with nerves from two thirds of the side.

Let's hope we can develop a siege mentality, and let's hope EVERYONE does the right thing for the club...

I admire you optimism Steff, even at times like this. I just wish I could emulate your single mindedness and hope.

Fact is, for the first time I detected the players have lost belief in AVB. The mutterings are that Dembele, Chadli and Verts have put in transfer requests already. If AVB has lost the dressing room, then it really is all over for him.

 

[indianspur]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

We did create some decent chances in the last twenty but wasted them to be fair - nit that it would have made any difference

Is 4-4-2 actually the answer? I wouldn't be adversed to trying it but it would mean only one new signing playing IMO and that's a huge problem for AVB

I'd play a midfield 4 of Lennon, Sandro, Dembele and Townsend with Ade and Soldado up top

Would he be brave enough to do that?

442 with the team you suggest cannot be any worse to watch than what weve seen this season, plus large parts of last season

and it doesnt necessarily have to be 442...just 2 up front might make a difference whether its 442, 352, 4132 etc

 

[Armchair Expert]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

I admire you optimism Steff, even at times like this. I just wish I could emulate your single mindedness and hope.

Fact is, for the first time I detected the players have lost belief in AVB. The mutterings are that Dembele, Chadli and Verts have put in transfer requests already. If AVB has lost the dressing room, then it really is all over for him.

Plenty of the players, including Vertonghen looked like they had given up today and simply had had a gonad full. If its excruciating to watch it also cant be much fun to play in.

 

[indianspur]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

"We've created so many chances before, and it's an ongoing conversation we have to make sure we have to finish up the chances."

I fear we will never improve when our manager is either unwilling or genuinely can't see the issues. In his mind our problem is that we can't finish the chances not that we create hardly any clear cut chances so he'll stick to his ideology. He will use shots on goal stats (like most that defend him) as some sort of conclusive evidence to back his weirdo way of thinking (much like he goes on about possession). It's like he doesn't want to ever admit he's getting it wrong..that's the frightening part about this.

yeah its very worrying the way he thinks

 

[Baleforce]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

pleat should never have been let go first time round

Graham should have been given the FA cup semi IMO

Santini walked of his own accord

Harry should have gone 6 months earlier

 

[Mumorn]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

Graham and Ramos, two managers fans didn't want at the club, or fans didn't like, both won the Carling Cup.

an omen perhaps? Bring it home AVB.

 

[Kingdawson]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

He's also sucked the enjoyment factor out of watching us play too. In previous seasons we were so entertaining to watch, created loads, free flowing.....it was fun to watch win or lose. Now when i watch us play at home i just hope we win but i also think 'please let us put on a display this week'. It was never like that before...now i just pray we actually play well whilst also hoping to win.

 

[indianspur]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

even coke can Stan Collywobbles has noticed how slowly we start games...no enthusiasm, no passion, no drive, he says he cannot believe that AVB game after game sends out his teams in this way

 

[charlietheyid]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

Graham and Ramos, two managers fans didn't want at the club, or fans didn't like, both won the Carling Cup.

an omen perhaps? Bring it home AVB.

Fans have nothing against AVB tbh. We were singing his name in the last home game..

The results and the performances are just turning things around..

 

[charlietheyid]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

He's also sucked the enjoyment factor out of watching us play too. In previous seasons we were so entertaining to watch, created loads, free flowing.....it was fun to watch win or lose. Now when i watch us play at home i just hope we win but i also think 'please let us put on a display this week'. It was never like that before...now i just pray we actually play well whilst also hoping to win.

I think thats the biggest problem.

 

[thfcsteff]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

I alluded to this that this is a watershed moment. The consideration here is - is AVB too stubborn to change things around? I dont think tinkering is enough, I think it requires a radical change of his ideas and beliefs. That is the problem - it requires a move away from his beliefs and that means throwing away his playbook and changing his views - that is a radical shift - is AVB prepared to do this? I dont know. The whole 433 or 4231 or whatever formation and tactic he has deployed is a) not working and b) not fruitful enough. The players are not enjoying it and you can clearly tell on the pitch. AVB has overcomplicated football as a game and he needs to realise this.

He needs someone to sit him down and tell him that he needs to change his methods. It is a watershed moment for him in effect.

I absolutely agree with that comment.
Regardless of patience or no-patience, today was a moment where he has left himself with nowhere to hide.
He made some brave decisions today and I cannot complain because he picked the exact team I wanted to see (in the You Are The Manager thread)…
For whatever reason they simply did not click. I could speculate that letting in a goal after 16 seconds from ostensibly a keeper error made the difference, but the truth is we were too slow in the build-up to bring the game back.

I was personally glad to see Ade back in the frame, as I had heard that AVB would not pick him again, however I'd guess that a month is a long time and that right now, he's going to be forced to make some very serious changes selection-wise.

It is an absolute watershed moment, and despite the fact I still maintain patience is required, realistically he will not get the time he needs, and as such, he needs to find a way to make things click very, very quickly…

He hasn't lost the players yet I don't think. They kept going, they kept pushing (just kept on getting done on the break by some superb counter-attacking) but players can be as fickle as fans so he's going to have shoot them with confidence and a system they feel COMFORTABLE in very very fast, that's for sure...

 

[Mumorn]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

Fans have nothing against AVB tbh. We were singing his name in the last home game..

The results and the performances are just turning things around..

I've seen plenty of AVB out grow increasingly the past few weeks..