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Andre Villas-Boas - Head Coach

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

AVB is clearly struggling but the balance between firing him and not is a fine one and hard to get right

Keep him and demand/hope/expect improvements which should happen with the quality we have but may not

Or fire him and hope that so done new can turn them round

The hardest but is when to make the call because we can't afford to right Off this season as our better players who are to blame too will want to leave leaving back in the negative spiral.

We could do worse than look at Biesla who has been regarded as the best manager their is by some... However he is another stats based manager and I think that doesn't suit this league. There needs to be fluidity and flexibility - not routine and predictability.

But it's a really difficult position that AVB is now in
 
Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

Maybe we can get Fergie to come out of his retirement ? :-"
 
Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

Mumorn said:
Would it have been different if we had signed Villa, Bernard and Willian instead?
Click to expand...

Possibly. But we're Spurs, we have neither the money nor the prestige to always attract the top targets. We need to always have backups ready if we feel that we may not get our target.

Coentrao is the one that looks like it is most going to bite us in the ass this season.
 
Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

Bedfordspurs said:
AVB is clearly struggling but the balance between firing him and not is a fine one and hard to get right

Keep him and demand/hope/expect improvements which should happen with the quality we have but may not

Or fire him and hope that so done new can turn them round

The hardest but is when to make the call because we can't afford to right Off this season as our better players who are to blame too will want to leave leaving back in the negative spiral.

We could do worse than look at Biesla who has been regarded as the best manager their is by some... However he is another stats based manager and I think that doesn't suit this league. There needs to be fluidity and flexibility - not routine and predictability.

But it's a really difficult position that AVB is now in
Click to expand...

If he does get fired that's not going to stop the individual errors that a killing us, we'll just be moaning at some other poor bastard instead
 
Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

Hootnow said:
Possibly. But we're Spurs, we have neither the money nor the prestige to always attract the top targets. We need to always have backups ready if we feel that we may not get our target.

Coentrao is the one that looks like it is most going to bite us in the ass this season.
Click to expand...

Or not letting BAE go out on loan (still baffling)
 
Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

paxtonwolf said:
Moutinho and Villa were definitely my what if? signings
Click to expand...

I see a stat the other day that Moutinho has the most assists from World Cup qualifying.

.......................Villa...................
Willian........Bernard.......Lennon
..........Moutinho....Sandro..........

I mean it looks pretty damn different doesn't it. :lol:
 
Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

For today, I don't think you can understate how important that first goal was. AVB picked a squad that was set up to be solid defensively and when we found ourselves down after 30 seconds, it was never going to be pretty. Add to that some terrible mistakes at the back and we were punished. Pretty simple really.

My question is, if AVB was put in a situation where we absolutely had to score 2 goals in a match, what 11 would he go with? I genuinely have no idea at this point.

------------------- Soldado
------- Eriksen --- Lamela --- Townsend
------------ Capoue ---- Paulinho
Rose -------------------------------- Walker
-------- Vertonghen ---- Chiriches
-------------------- Lloris


That's probably what I'd go with.. I don't even know if it's a question of team choice more so than playing style. We have so much talent. But we also have too much dribbling from our defensive midfielders and we build in attack so slowly its untrue.
 
Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

Mumorn said:
I see a stat the other day that Moutinho has the most assists from World Cup qualifying.

.......................Villa...................
Willian........Bernard.......Lennon
..........Moutinho....Sandro..........

I mean it looks pretty damn different doesn't it. :lol:
Click to expand...

But surely Villa would have exactly the same problems Soldado is having now? He's obviously a better player than Soldado, more well rounded as well but we'd still have been leaving him isolated.
 
Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

Hootnow said:
But surely Villa would have exactly the same problems Soldado is having now? He's obviously a better player than Soldado, more well rounded as well but we'd still have been leaving him isolated.
Click to expand...

I imagine that is where Willian, Bernard and Moutinho come in though considering they are all more creative than what we are starting with.
 
Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

Something that I. Ant see in our team is who is actually meant to be pulling the strings???

Every team has a passing midfielder (well half decent ones) yet we have none that I can see of in the current set up.

We have number 10s that spent more time in our defensive third

We have some box to box types

We have stoppers/destroyers

We don't have a pass master at all and is that why we're create so little quality chances?
 
Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

It's an interesting one, today. I think it will be a watershed moment for something to change. And it is the kind of result to make people that have backed him up until now think 'Will we ever really recover from this?' and 'Why have Everton and Liverpool managed to start producing good creative football with less money spent and in a shorter space of time?' I don't mean fans per se, more guys like Levy who will have defiantly backed AVB up until this point, are going to be questioning why it all blew up as it did today. Levy reportedly still liked Ramos right to the end, and I think he likes AVB, and I think he really wants to get something established where we can move up a level and compete beyond our means, but for some reason it never got to click with Ramos and beyond a couple of games this season it's not really clicked so far with AVB. And all the while we are solid defensively you can say that we are establishing a platform to build, but once that goes, serious questions do have to be asked as to why.

That said, this heavy defeat no more means that AVB will never recover than the 4-0 for Moyes at the same ground did earlier in the season (and Man United until that point and in a few games after had been pretty poor make no mistake). Same for the 6-1 for Fergie or the 8-2 for Wenger. Sometimes, everything that can go wrong for a team on a day, does go wrong. It doesn't mean that the approach of that manager is fundamentally flawed, or that he will never recover. I also don't buy into the nonsense such as he's 'clueless' or 'always picks the wrong players' because the problems today went beyond that.

My guess at what is going wrong is that our system of playing a lone striker that is purely there to make runs off the ball and finish chances, just isn't suited to the Premier League. It may be because defences are too powerful, too quick and too strong, and that playing a lone striker who is purely there to make those runs means they will never get fed the ball because it requires the perfect ball through to them. It also means they don't take part in build up play, and therefore those players have a harder job to knit moves together.

So maybe the watershed is that we now go 4-4-2 and Soldado gets better service. If Soldado and Defoe were different sorts of strikers - even in the Aguero mould where they can get on the ball, be a bit creative, run and dribble at pace - then I don't think we will have struggled as much. But for some reason, a system that should work in theory just isn't working right now and maybe the length of time it will take for us to make it work will mean results are hit too greatly. We then have to decide if making this system work will benefit us more in the long run and allow us to compete above our level on a regular basis, or whether we go 4-4-2 and decide on a different approach with a different squad set up from January onwards.
 
Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

im pi$$ed off that he and baldini have wasted all the Bale money......dumb and dumber

should have put all that dosh towards the new stadium
 
Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

id rather we went with 2 strikers up front than put up with this one striker up front garbage. Even if we concede some goals, who cares, we need to start being more threatening up front

show some fcuking balls avb
 
Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

BrainOfLevy said:
It's an interesting one, today. I think it will be a watershed moment for something to change. And it is the kind of result to make people that have backed him up until now think 'Will we ever really recover from this?' and 'Why have Everton and Liverpool managed to start producing good creative football with less money spent and in a shorter space of time?' I don't mean fans per se, more guys like Levy who will have defiantly backed AVB up until this point, are going to be questioning why it all blew up as it did today. Levy reportedly still liked Ramos right to the end, and I think he likes AVB, and I think he really wants to get something established where we can move up a level and compete beyond our means, but for some reason it never got to click with Ramos and beyond a couple of games this season it's not really clicked so far with AVB. And all the while we are solid defensively you can say that we are establishing a platform to build, but once that goes, serious questions do have to be asked as to why.

That said, this heavy defeat no more means that AVB will never recover than the 4-0 for Moyes at the same ground did earlier in the season (and Man United until that point and in a few games after had been pretty poor make no mistake). Same for the 6-1 for Fergie or the 8-2 for Wenger. Sometimes, everything that can go wrong for a team on a day, does go wrong. It doesn't mean that the approach of that manager is fundamentally flawed, or that he will never recover. I also don't buy into the nonsense such as he's 'clueless' or 'always picks the wrong players' because the problems today went beyond that.

My guess at what is going wrong is that our system of playing a lone striker that is purely there to make runs off the ball and finish chances, just isn't suited to the Premier League. It may be because defences are too powerful, too quick and too strong, and that playing a lone striker who is purely there to make those runs means they will never get fed the ball because it requires the perfect ball through to them. It also means they don't take part in build up play, and therefore those players have a harder job to knit moves together.

So maybe the watershed is that we now go 4-4-2 and Soldado gets better service. If Soldado and Defoe were different sorts of strikers - even in the Aguero mould where they can get on the ball, be a bit creative, run and dribble at pace - then I don't think we will have struggled as much. But for some reason, a system that should work in theory just isn't working right now and maybe the length of time it will take for us to make it work will mean results are hit too greatly. We then have to decide if making this system work will benefit us more in the long run and allow us to compete above our level on a regular basis, or whether we go 4-4-2 and decide on a different approach with a different squad set up from January onwards.
Click to expand...

I alluded to this that this is a watershed moment. The consideration here is - is AVB too stubborn to change things around? I dont think tinkering is enough, I think it requires a radical change of his ideas and beliefs. That is the problem - it requires a move away from his beliefs and that means throwing away his playbook and changing his views - that is a radical shift - is AVB prepared to do this? I dont know. The whole 433 or 4231 or whatever formation and tactic he has deployed is a) not working and b) not fruitful enough. The players are not enjoying it and you can clearly tell on the pitch. AVB has overcomplicated football as a game and he needs to realise this.

He needs someone to sit him down and tell him that he needs to change his methods. It is a watershed moment for him in effect.
 
Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

"We've created so many chances before, and it's an ongoing conversation we have to make sure we have to finish up the chances."

I fear we will never improve when our manager is either unwilling or genuinely can't see the issues. In his mind our problem is that we can't finish the chances not that we create hardly any clear cut chances so he'll stick to his ideology. He will use shots on goal stats (like most that defend him) as some sort of conclusive evidence to back his weirdo way of thinking (much like he goes on about possession). It's like he doesn't want to ever admit he's getting it wrong..that's the frightening part about this.
 
Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

Kingdawson said:
"We've created so many chances before, and it's an ongoing conversation we have to make sure we have to finish up the chances."

I fear we will never improve when our manager is either unwilling or genuinely can't see the issues. In his mind our problem is that we can't finish the chances not that we create hardly any clear cut chances so he'll stick to his ideology. He will use shots on goal stats (like most that defend him) as some sort of conclusive evidence to back his weirdo way of thinking (much like he goes on about possession). It's like he doesn't want to ever admit he's getting it wrong..that's the frightening part about this.
Click to expand...

But he is doing what most on here do - hell bent on statistics (and its no secret that I despise statistics). We have had the most shots on goal (which like you say AVB will use) but what AVB doesnt realise is that most of those shots are shots from ridiculous distances and angles and just pot shots because there was no other alternative for the player with the ball. Thats the crux of the issue.
 
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