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Andre Villas-Boas - Head Coach

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

I should hope we were near the top with that starting fixture list!

It's a good job they were all teams where you could put out a bunch of lemons and still win, even if you need a dodgy penalty to do it!

You know its fine just pretending everything is rosy because we're 5 points off the top, but as I keep saying, the results have been better than the performances and we have been highly jammy to accumulate the level of points we have done.

Anything less than our current points total though, would have been bitterly disappointing given the fixtures we were dealt.

Our next two fixtures could easily see us with no points from 3 games, 1 point from 4 and drifting out to 9-11 points off the top. Not to mention the possibility of scoring 9 goals in 13 games, 6 from open play!

And if a freak hurricane sweeps through N17 the stadium could be blown away. And if that virus hits we could have to play the youth team.

Our next two fixtures could also see us win both. Or win one and draw one.

As you have so much time to spend what is the comparison with last season's results (replacing promoted teams with relegated teams)?

And by the by, you seem to already be 'bitterly disappointed'. If that's not your state of mind and things go the way you think they might I look forward to reading your next thread and posts.
 
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Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

According to the Secret Footballer most (all?) top level managers do this



http://www.theguardian.com/football/2011/jan/29/secret-footballer-andy-gray-pundits

That's interesting. To be honest I would expect nothing less from top level football - if very very very low level basketball players can internalise a few rehearsed movements then I'm sure a top level football team could too.

I need to read the particular section of the book again, to go into detail about what I was referring to. But suffice to say I don't think all of these plays will come instantly to a squad in competitive matches, when the attacking line up is virtually all new.
 
Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

And if a freak hurricane sweeps through N17 the stadium could be blown away. And if that virus hits we could have to play the youth team.

Our next two fixtures could also see us win both. Or win one and draw one.

As you have so much time to spend what is the comparison with last season's results (replacing promoted teams with relegated teams)?

And by the by, you seem to already be 'bitterly disappointed'. If that's not your state of mind and things go the way you think they might I look forward to reading your next thread and posts.

Yes. I am bitterly disappointed. We've ended up with the Portuguese George Graham, only with a squad that's 100 times better than Ben Thatcher, Chris Perry, Tim Sherwood and Willem Korsten…but he's still sucking the life out of it none-the-less.

It's getting to the point where I honestly don't even care anymore and bizarrely, I really CARE that I don't care. It really bothers me. Like I can't even be bothered in my current state of mind to put myself through watching the Emirates Marketing Project game, I expect I will flick on the score near the end, see we are 2 or 3 down and just go pffffft….whatever.

I feel totally indifferent now and the performances have worn me down through most of last season, to the beginning of this.

I feel like i'm just treading water until we're all put out of our misery and AVB is binned off as the latest failed experiment. This Spurs team is just so massively incomprehensibly lifeless and ineffective, I honestly feel its only a matter of time before everyone admits failure and moves on with their lives, and for me it can't come soon enough!
 
Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

Yes. I am bitterly disappointed. We've ended up with the Portuguese George Graham, only with a squad that's 100 times better than Ben Thatcher, Chris Perry, Tim Sherwood and Willem Korsten…but he's still sucking the life out of it none-the-less.

It's getting to the point where I honestly don't even care anymore and bizarrely, I really CARE that I don't care. It really bothers me. Like I can't even be bothered in my current state of mind to put myself through watching the Emirates Marketing Project game, I expect I will flick on the score near the end, see we are 2 or 3 down and just go pffffft….whatever.

I feel totally indifferent now and the performances have worn me down through most of last season, to the beginning of this.

I feel like i'm just treading water until we're all put out of our misery and AVB is binned off as the latest failed experiment. This Spurs team is just so massively incomprehensibly lifeless and ineffective, I honestly feel its only a matter of time before everyone admits failure and moves on with their lives, and for me it can't come soon enough!

I am genuinely sorry you feel this way. I'm sure it has been asked of you and I missed it, but who would you bring in?
 
Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

A poll of where everyone thinks we will finish this season would be a good idea (not sure if there was one earlier in the season?). Nail your colours to the mast. My opinion is we will finish 5th again, which I think is the absolute bare minimum given the squad we have and how much money we've spent. I don't expect us to finish in the top 4, I reckon we will finish 5th again.
 
Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

Coached as a top club? You mean a club that can't buy a goal from open play, a club that is 7th and gets taken apart at home to West Ham with no striker? Ok, ok, I'm being a d**k, but surely you don't even believe all that you've just typed, it's oh so text-book perfect and AVB is quite the genius.

I think what you meant to say, is that AVB is "attempting" to coach us like one version of a top club, i.e. the Mourinho style 'power-house'. A team that controls the game via physicality and squeezing of space and ruthless finishing by some goal-scoring attackers.

That's only one vision of a "top-club". The other is the Wenger "passing model" and then there is the Man U "go for the jugular" attacking/domination model.

Really for AVB's system to work, he kind of needed Benteke (i.e. a Drogba-type). He really needs to bit the bullet and bring Ade back.

His style of football is turgid though. its only effective by being a battering ram. At the moment with powder-puff Sig, Soldado and Townsend upfront, its going nowhere...

I completely believe it.

I was at a lecture/talk the other week by Chris Anderson - he wrote 'The Numbers Game' which is a pretty interesting book on football, basically using his research and statistical analysis of years upon years of data to disprove a lot of commonly held myths about football. Kind of like Freakonomics for the sport. Anyway, he said that in terms of what we know about football, and even what the professionals know about football, the game is - if we compare it to say medicine - still in the leeches stage. There is so, so much more than everyone can learn.

So while I don't think AVB has come along and literally figured out all there is to know about football - because he is nowhere near that and neither is anyone else - I do have a lot of trust in him. So we lost to West Ham? Big flipping deal. I don't pay much attention to individual results because we are just as capable of going to Old Trafford and winning (we did that last year, remember?) and ultimately teams will have ups and downs during a season as an absolute guarantee. Getting worked up over results this early in the season is, especially, a total mugs game.

I don't think he's playing a Mourinho style of football at all. I don't know where this comes from, beyond wanting physical midfielders but even then he's wanted Moutinho here and Modric at Chelsea, and I don't think either would have fitted into that original Mourinho side. It's an incredibly lazy comparison. Kudos though for listing out every type of football that a club could possibly play, I thought there would be way more than three types, but whatever.

I don't think he needs a battering ram. He actively wants strikers like Soldado, and seems very happy with Defoe - pure poachers. We just need to get better playing the way he wants.

And again, it's only looking pretty bad in one particular aspect of our play. If we need to create chances, we usually do it. I know you will come back with 'but that was only because Saudi Sportswashing Machine forced us into it!' and you act like that is a bad thing. Like the only possible alternative in that match was for us to roar back. Well actually, we could have if the team was so poorly prepared by this clutz of a manager, completely capitulated and lost 3-0 again. We could have failed to create any chances whatsoever. But we did create chances. Against Chelsea at home, we played a fantastic half. Against Cardiff away, against Norwich at home, we created lots of chances. We were tearing Villa to shreds on their own patch. We were dominating Everton like they haven't been all season on their own ground. All of these performances have positive aspects. Some things to improve on but a lot of good work. We are doing a lot of good things, and just need to turn it into a consistent effort.

I think, when chasing a game, we are very capable. Going to an away ground against most teams now, we are very capable. Even playing against most top teams, we are very capable - if you look at our performance vs Man United at Old Trafford for example we showed we can execute a counter attacking strategy well, while this year at home to Chelsea they sat back and we took the game to them first half. We just need to be able to face lesser teams at home and control the game against them on a consistent basis....it's a very achievable goal.
 
Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

I am genuinely sorry you feel this way. I'm sure it has been asked of you and I missed it, but who would you bring in?

I'd want to bring in someone who sets out to play in the traditions of the club, but someone that was very ambitious and did not put limits on the club's ambitions. I would want someone who could really take the club forward, who, whatever they thought about the fans and the club (yes, we know they don't really give a ****, but at least Martin Jol pretended, right?), fostered an inclusive relationship and bond with the fans.

I really liked the Jol years, i mean I really enjoyed them. It wasn't all sweetness and light and I especially remember an inability to beat the top 6 teams, but I really felt like I was part of a collective and we had some wonderful maverick players playing great attacking football.

Even when it all went tits up, the atmosphere at his last game at the lane was spine-tingling. He was one of us, or at least, he pretended to be, and we pretended he was and it felt good!

Ideally, I'd want someone with more ability or tactical know-how, but someone who really built a togetherness and sense of purpose again.
 
Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

I'd want to bring in someone who sets out to play in the traditions of the club, but someone that was very ambitious and did not put limits on the club's ambitions. I would want someone who could really take the club forward, who, whatever they thought about the fans and the club (yes, we know they don't really give a ****, but at least Martin Jol pretended, right?), fostered an inclusive relationship and bond with the fans.

I really liked the Jol years, i mean I really enjoyed them. It wasn't all sweetness and light and I especially remember an inability to beat the top 6 teams, but I really felt like I was part of a collective and we had some wonderful maverick players playing great attacking football.

Even when it all went tits up, the atmosphere at his last game at the lane was spine-tingling. He was one of us, or at least, he pretended to be, and we pretended he was and it felt good!

Ideally, I'd want someone with more ability or tactical know-how, but someone who really built a togetherness and sense of purpose again.

I don't agree with your stance that AVB should get sacked, but I do think you've raised some valid points in both threads.

People go on about AVB's "philosophy" and the book about him and are really, really impressed by everything about him, how articulate he is and how intelligent he is. But one of my biggest concerns about him is he isn't as great tactically as some football people and Spurs fans would have you believe. He obviously knows more than any of us, but I've seen with my own eyes how bad his subsitiutions can be, no one gets it right every time, but he doesn't seem to know how to change a game if needs must.

His preparation is second to none as well apparently, well it wasn't for the West Ham game. He said we would prepare for them "on the day of the game" as it was a couple of days after a Europa game. It should have been the other way round, surely West Ham required more preparation than Tromso or FC US Marshal.
 
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Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

I'd want to bring in someone who sets out to play in the traditions of the club, but someone that was very ambitious and did not put limits on the club's ambitions. I would want someone who could really take the club forward, who, whatever they thought about the fans and the club (yes, we know they don't really give a ****, but at least Martin Jol pretended, right?), fostered an inclusive relationship and bond with the fans.

I really liked the Jol years, i mean I really enjoyed them. It wasn't all sweetness and light and I especially remember an inability to beat the top 6 teams, but I really felt like I was part of a collective and we had some wonderful maverick players playing great attacking football.

Even when it all went tits up, the atmosphere at his last game at the lane was spine-tingling. He was one of us, or at least, he pretended to be, and we pretended he was and it felt good!

Ideally, I'd want someone with more ability or tactical know-how, but someone who really built a togetherness and sense of purpose again.

Any name you would throw out there?
 
Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

I completely believe it.

I was at a lecture/talk the other week by Chris Anderson - he wrote 'The Numbers Game' which is a pretty interesting book on football, basically using his research and statistical analysis of years upon years of data to disprove a lot of commonly held myths about football. Kind of like Freakonomics for the sport. Anyway, he said that in terms of what we know about football, and even what the professionals know about football, the game is - if we compare it to say medicine - still in the leeches stage. There is so, so much more than everyone can learn.

So while I don't think AVB has come along and literally figured out all there is to know about football - because he is nowhere near that and neither is anyone else - I do have a lot of trust in him. So we lost to West Ham? Big flipping deal. I don't pay much attention to individual results because we are just as capable of going to Old Trafford and winning (we did that last year, remember?) and ultimately teams will have ups and downs during a season as an absolute guarantee. Getting worked up over results this early in the season is, especially, a total mugs game.

I don't think he's playing a Mourinho style of football at all. I don't know where this comes from, beyond wanting physical midfielders but even then he's wanted Moutinho here and Modric at Chelsea, and I don't think either would have fitted into that original Mourinho side. It's an incredibly lazy comparison. Kudos though for listing out every type of football that a club could possibly play, I thought there would be way more than three types, but whatever.

I don't think he needs a battering ram. He actively wants strikers like Soldado, and seems very happy with Defoe - pure poachers. We just need to get better playing the way he wants.

And again, it's only looking pretty bad in one particular aspect of our play. If we need to create chances, we usually do it. I know you will come back with 'but that was only because Saudi Sportswashing Machine forced us into it!' and you act like that is a bad thing. Like the only possible alternative in that match was for us to roar back. Well actually, we could have if the team was so poorly prepared by this clutz of a manager, completely capitulated and lost 3-0 again. We could have failed to create any chances whatsoever. But we did create chances. Against Chelsea at home, we played a fantastic half. Against Cardiff away, against Norwich at home, we created lots of chances. We were tearing Villa to shreds on their own patch. We were dominating Everton like they haven't been all season on their own ground. All of these performances have positive aspects. Some things to improve on but a lot of good work. We are doing a lot of good things, and just need to turn it into a consistent effort.

I think, when chasing a game, we are very capable. Going to an away ground against most teams now, we are very capable. Even playing against most top teams, we are very capable - if you look at our performance vs Man United at Old Trafford for example we showed we can execute a counter attacking strategy well, while this year at home to Chelsea they sat back and we took the game to them first half. We just need to be able to face lesser teams at home and control the game against them on a consistent basis....it's a very achievable goal.

zzzzzzzz, you do know its a game, right? Not a science experiment, or a maths exam? Like, when I part with a massive chunk of my hard-earned, i'd actually like to enjoy myself a bit, rather than see some kind of number-crunching "holier than thou", f**k the proles, aren't I clever, eye-drillingly painful chess match.
 
Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

I don't agree with your stance that AVB should get sacked, but I do think you've raised some valid points in both threads.

People go on about AVB's "philosophy" and the book about him and are really, really impressed by everything about him, how articulate he is and how intelligent he is. But one of my biggest concerns about him is he isn't as great tactically as some football people and Spurs fans would have you believe. He obviously knows more than any of us, but I've seen with my own eyes how bad his subsitiutions can be, no one gets it right every time, but he doesn't seem to know how to change a game if needs must.

His preparation is second to none as well apparently, well it wasn't for the West Ham game. He said we would prepare for them "on the day of the game" as it was a couple of days after a Europa game. It should have been the other way round, surely West Ham reuqired more preparation than Tromso or FC US Marshal.

I said it in the Saudi Sportswashing Machine OMT but I was really disappointed that AVB didn't switch Townsend to the left side when both Saudi Sportswashing Machine's right-sided players were on yellow cards. Previous managers would have done so knowing they would be tenuous in the tackle, or if not they would pick up a second caution and get sent off.
 
Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

I don't agree with your stance that AVB should get sacked, but I do think you've raised some valid points in both threads.

People go on about AVB's "philosophy" and the book about him and are really, really impressed by everything about him, how articulate he is and how intelligent he is. But one of my biggest concerns about him is he isn't as great tactically as some football people and Spurs fans would have you believe. He obviously knows more than any of us, but I've seen with my own eyes how bad his subsitiutions can be, no one gets it right every time, but he doesn't seem to know how to change a game if needs must.

His preparation is second to none as well apparently, well it wasn't for the West Ham game. He said we would prepare for them "on the day of the game" as it was a couple of days after a Europa game. It should have been the other way round, surely West Ham reuqired more preparation than Tromso or FC US Marshal.

Plus, he sets up exactly the same way every single game. I mean, even dumb-ass diamond geez a' ol' 'arry didn't do that!

Sweeper keeper and back four pushed up near the half-way line? Check
Double defensive midfield pivot? Check
channel running attacking midfielder? Check
2 wingers, inverted or standard variety? Check
Lone poacher who is only there to score? Check

No wonder other teams find us so easy to counter? Where is the variety in our play. Ok, so Arsenal don't change their game either, but all the other top clubs do, they vary their formation and personnel depending on the opposition. Fergie used to be a master at it, even doing what you thought were really random s**t like playing Phil Jones in midfield, but it often worked!
 
Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

Any name you would throw out there?

Well I haven't really thought about it enough to really justify any name throwing. It's a big job and it needs a lot of thought and consideration. Also, how many times do you see someone that you thought was so right for a job, but ended up being so wrong in the seat. Also the other way round!

Part of me regrets missing out on Poyet or Martinez, but then I might just be going mad. I'm glad I'm not Levy & Baldini!
 
Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

Well I haven't really thought about it enough to really justify any name throwing. It's a big job and it needs a lot of thought and consideration. Also, how many times do you see someone that you thought was so right for a job, but ended up being so wrong in the seat. Also the other way round!

Part of me regrets missing out on Poyet or Martinez, but then I might just be going mad. I'm glad I'm not Levy & Baldini!

I would wager that a lot of GG members are glad of that too! \o/
 
Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

Just going back to AVB not being as tactically aware or insightful as some make out, one of the things that I honestly can't get over is his complete refusal to play Sandro & Dembele as our starting midfield duo, despite them looking absolutely beast-like together in the first half of last season?

Surely they are the best midfield combo. They aren't necessarily the best two "on paper", but when played together they just work, their chemistry works, their attributes complement each other, Dembele brings out the best in Sandro and likewise, Sandro gives Dembele the license and protection he needs to do his "let's try and beat their entire midfield" thang safe in the knowledge that if he loses the ball, Sandro is there to smash someone's knees in.
 
Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

zzzzzzzz, you do know its a game, right? Not a science experiment, or a maths exam? Like, when I part with a massive chunk of my hard-earned, i'd actually like to enjoy myself a bit, rather than see some kind of number-crunching "holier than thou", f**k the proles, aren't I clever, eye-drillingly painful chess match.

Ok, like fair enough you've said your piece, you've said why you want our manager sacked, but I don't know how you expect anyone to take you seriously when someone tries to engage you in some form of serious debate and and you can only respond with 'zzzzzzzzzz'. I mean for goodness sake.

You do realise that every single manager we could possibly employ would be employing a detailed level of tactical sophistication and planning, right?
 
Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

Ok, like fair enough you've said your piece, you've said why you want our manager sacked, but I don't know how you expect anyone to take you seriously when someone tries to engage you in some form of serious debate and and you can only respond with 'zzzzzzzzzz'. I mean for goodness sake.

You do realise that every single manager we could possibly employ would be employing a detailed level of tactical sophistication and planning, right?

I'd hope so…I just get annoyed that people get excited about AVB because he plays football by percentages and certain people love him because he reduces football to number crunching and statistics.

It's like I just want to stand outside and look up at the night's sky and think "sh** that is really f***ing beautiful", but then Andre Villas-Hawking rocks up in his wheel chair and starts telling me about the formula used to calculate the distance of all the stars from Earth and how it all works!

Maybe that makes me a dumb-a**, but I kind of like being one!
 
Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

I'd hope so…I just get annoyed that people get excited about AVB because he plays football by percentages and certain people love him because he reduces football to number crunching and statistics.

It's like I just want to stand outside and look up at the night's sky and think "sh** that is really f***ing beautiful", but then Andre Villas-Hawking rocks up in his wheel chair and starts telling me about the formula used to calculate the distance of all the stars from Earth and how it all works!

Maybe that makes me a dumb-a**, but I kind of like being one!

When has AVB ever actually done something like that? He bases his football on percentages as much as any top manager would. He's also said to place a lot of faith in individual player motivation and setting up a team that is able to compete within the parameters of the national style, to embrace that and not to go against it.

It seems like you get this 'number cruncher' persona from people that defend him rather than from the man himself. But the fact is, and why I brought up that football book, is that most managers do look at the data. It's one of the most important aspects of the game today. AVB isn't some lone crusader on that front.

And again, you're basing your opinion of him on the football you have seen in a select few games at the beginning of a season where he is bedding in the majority of his attacking talent. There are a plethora of examples over many years of football history that will show you that getting overly excited or overly angry over earlier season matches is an absolute mugs game.
 
Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

Ok, like fair enough you've said your piece, you've said why you want our manager sacked, but I don't know how you expect anyone to take you seriously when someone tries to engage you in some form of serious debate and and you can only respond with 'zzzzzzzzzz'. I mean for goodness sake.

You do realise that every single manager we could possibly employ would be employing a detailed level of tactical sophistication and planning, right?

Yes but other managers can do this and allow their players to play.
He doesn't trust in his players to express themselves.
He fears bad results because of what happened him at Chelsea.
So goes out with a control the game and try to win it in the last 20 minutes approach.
There is so much fear in the team and how we play and it comes from AVB not the crowd.
 
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