Andre Villas-Boas - Head Coach

[milo]

Re: AVB - Making Tottenham His Own

What examples are there of him being constantly over critical? And I mean to honest players working hard and trying their best. There's a lot of examples of him criticising the culture at the club, the Bardsleys, the Bramble's, and I think most people would say that's warranted. I can't remember too much outright criticism of players genuinely trying their best. Even the O'Shea thing, he didn't actually criticise him, he said he couldn't because he had already owned up to it. And he reportedly liked the likes of OShea and Colback anyway because they knuckled down under him.

How long do you think managing through fear and criticism can be effective for? How important do you think man management is in being a football manager?

By all accounts Di Canio was not flexible and did not vary his approach depending on what his players responded to.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Re: AVB - Making Tottenham His Own

How long do you think managing through fear and criticism can be effective for? How important do you think man management is in being a football manager?

By all accounts Di Canio was not flexible and did not vary his approach depending on what his players responded to.

How do you know? And where are the examples of constant, unfair and unfounded criticism?

 

[milo]

Re: AVB - Making Tottenham His Own

How do you know? And where are the examples of constant, unfair and unfounded criticism?

Every account I have heard of Di Canio's time at Sunderland and Swindon has said that he was very hard to work with and critical of his plays (both in public and private).

Does it matter whether the criticism is unfair and unfounded or not? I think that criticism on its own is a pretty blunt instrument and will only be effective for a short period of time.

How would you react to a manager who constantly criticised you in work?

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

Re: AVB - Making Tottenham His Own

]How long do you think managing through fear and criticism can be effective for[/B]? How important do you think man management is in being a football manager?

By all accounts Di Canio was not flexible and did not vary his approach depending on what his players responded to.

yep in any walk of life fear can only get you so far you need to encourage not just critcise, even the politicans have learnt this. Tough love only works for so long.

 

[Nezza]

Re: AVB - Making Tottenham His Own

I'd argue that many great managers don't leave a legacy because they stay on too long. For example Ferguson hasn't left much of a legacy for his successor and Clough left a club in ruins?

If there are legacies to be left at Spurs, I think we should be looking more at Lewis and Levy.

The club has come a long way in the last decade - imagine what they will leave behind when they are done.

 

[milo]

Re: AVB - Making Tottenham His Own

If there are legacies to be left at Spurs, I think we should be looking more at Lewis and Levy.

The club has come a long way in the last decade - imagine what they will leave behind when they are done.

I agree

 

[Stenno]

Re: AVB - Making Tottenham His Own

Great ones do.

What about Harry Redknapp's legacy at Portsmouth? :-k

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Re: AVB - Making Tottenham His Own

Every account I have heard of Di Canio's time at Sunderland and Swindon has said that he was very hard to work with and critical of his plays (both in public and private).

Does it matter whether the criticism is unfair and unfounded or not? I think that criticism on its own is a pretty blunt instrument and will only be effective for a short period of time.

How would you react to a manager who constantly criticised you in work?

Again, what are the examples of his criticism? This is the third time I've asked, and it seems it isn't very easy to come up with them, it's just been all too easy to fall for the narrative that he was some kind of mental tyrant.

And how does everyone know he was 'only' managing by fear and criticism and not giving any praise?

 

[clownfoot]

Re: AVB - Making Tottenham His Own

Again, what are the examples of his criticism? This is the third time I've asked, and it seems it isn't very easy to come up with them, it's just been all too easy to fall for the narrative that he was some kind of mental tyrant.

And how does everyone know he was 'only' managing by fear and criticism and not giving any praise?

I've taken this approach to Di Canio. The press clearly didn't like him from the beginning, the way his political views were splashed across the newspapers was exemplary of this. The press will only filter through stories that are in line with their agenda, and in this instance their agenda was get him out of a job. The tales of kitchen staff not being allowed to make eye contact with players is just drivel, and it was a systematic approach to undermine his every move.

How long did pundits take analysing the way Di Canio walked over to the Sunderland fans after a game? Ridiculous. Wouldn't have happened to a British manager of the same age and stature as Di Canio

 

[parklane1]

Re: AVB - Making Tottenham His Own

If there are legacies to be left at Spurs, I think we should be looking more at Lewis and Levy.

The club has come a long way in the last decade - imagine what they will leave behind when they are done.

Good post.

 

[The Moonlit Knight]

Re: AVB - Making Tottenham His Own

If there are legacies to be left at Spurs, I think we should be looking more at Lewis and Levy.

The club has come a long way in the last decade - imagine what they will leave behind when they are done.

Until it happens, we won't know. We may find out they've been cooking the books for the last decade for all we know!

That's the thing about legacies. They can only be judged when they come to fruition.

I would say that every person working at the club leaves a legacy in one form or another. Not necessarily a positive one or a negative one. All those recent Managers we've had (Ramos aside) and the players under them have raised the bar and that in itself is a legacy of sorts.

 

[onlyme]

Re: AVB - Making Tottenham His Own

Legacies left at Stoke, Swansea and Wigan.
Legacy changed at Stoke.
Legacies not always good.

 

[milo]

Re: AVB - Making Tottenham His Own

Legacies left at Stoke, Swansea and Wigan.
Legacy changed at Stoke.
Legacies not always good.

How many of those are legacies left by a manager as opposed to an owner or DoF?

 

[The Moonlit Knight]

Re: AVB - Making Tottenham His Own

How many of those are legacies left by a manager as opposed to an owner or DoF?

Also what time frame defines a legacy? Just the following season? Or something that stands the test of time and lasts for years?

If that was the case I'd say that Sugar's legacy is currently more important than any ENIC leave behind. At least until that new stadium is complete.

 

[Mumorn]

Re: AVB - Making Tottenham His Own

How many of those are legacies left by a manager as opposed to an owner or DoF?

Swansea down to Martinez. I think the chairman has done a great job in getting two managers who have that similar ethos in Rodgers and Laudrup.
Could almost say Wigan was pretty much thanks to Martinez too.

 

[milo]

Re: AVB - Making Tottenham His Own

Swansea down to Martinez. I think the chairman has done a great job in getting two managers who have that similar ethos in Rodgers and Laudrup.
Could almost say Wigan was pretty much thanks to Martinez too.

I disagree. Swansea chose a playing style and bought in players and managers to fit that system which is one of the reasons why managers moving on has had little impact on their progression.

Wigan's rise is almost entirely down to Dave Whelan. Look where they were when he bought them and most of their history before that.

 

[Mumorn]

Re: AVB - Making Tottenham His Own

I disagree. Swansea chose a playing style and bought in players and managers to fit that system which is one of the reasons why managers moving on has had little impact on their progression.

Wigan's rise is almost entirely down to Dave Whelan. Look where they were when he bought them and most of their history before that.

I meant Wigans style of play. They were **** under Jewell.

 

[Jordinho]

Re: AVB - Making Tottenham His Own

I put the improvement of teams like Wigan, Swansea and Stoke down to their owners. They have spent well without spending too much.

 

[milo]

Re: AVB - Making Tottenham His Own

I meant Wigans style of play. They were **** under Jewell.

Bruce was Martinez's predecessor.

If you look at Jewell's record. He took over in 2001 when they were in Div 2 and took them to a tenth place Premier League finish in 2005. They finished 17th the following season. Then Bruce took over and took them to 14th and 11th place finishes. Martinez took over and established Premier League team and lead them to two 16th place finishes, a 15th and relegation.

 

[Mumorn]

Re: AVB - Making Tottenham His Own

Bruce was Martinez's predecessor.

If you look at Jewell's record. He took over in 2001 when they were in Div 2 and took them to a tenth place Premier League finish in 2005. They finished 17th the following season. Then Bruce took over and took them to 14th and 11th place finishes. Martinez took over and established Premier League team and lead them to two 16th place finishes, a 15th and relegation.

but im not talking about how far the clubs have come, I'm talking about a style of play. I thought thats what was meant by "legacies" - Swansea are still playing nice one touch passing football, all that which Martinez brought upon them. He did the same when he went to Wigan and even won them an FA Cup. He's doing the same at Everton, has them unbeaten and playing some real great stuff.