• Dear Guest, Please note that adult content is not permitted on this forum. We have had our Google ads disabled at times due to some posts that were found from some time ago. Please do not post adult content and if you see any already on the forum, please report the post so that we can deal with it. Adult content is allowed in the glory hole - you will have to request permission to access it. Thanks, scara

Andre Villas-Boas - Head Coach

Offensively I don't think we're doing anything particularly different, we just lack the brains of Modric and VDV from last season, along with Adebayor's relative no-show(the reason for that being up to debate). Lennon I think is playing inside a little more, not a massive amount but he's changing it up more often than under Harry. Our full backs don't seem to get forward as much now although again I'm not sure whether that's by design or just happenstance.

The big difference is defensively. Our back 4 IS much higher up the pitch than last season and this is only made possible by the signing of Lloris who is practically a 3rd central defender at times rather than just being a goalkeeper. Our front 6 press a hell of a lot more than before, Dembele/Sandro/Parker can vacate their position to press high up the pitch because they now know they won't be leaving a massive hole behind them as our defence is now pushed up to cover, that's probably why our full backs don't tend to bomb on as much as we don't want to be leaving our CBs exposed too often. Under Harry we'd revert to our shape, in our own half and we'd let the opposition have the ball and then strike if they advance into a more dangerous area. Neither method is right or wrong, we just like to stop the "danger" at the source now, rather than conserving ourselves. I think this has been demonstrated very well recently with us conceding just 6 times in the last 11 games and how many times have you had to type out the match ratings for Lloris and say "didn't really have anything to do but anticipated well" or something along those lines? We're restricting teams to very few actual chances now and that can only be a good thing.

I don't think we'll see much change/improvement offensively until AVB gets the players he wants to fit the game he wants to play, whether that will ever happen I don't know. I haven't really said anything there that everyone else hasn't so I guess P&R will just say "I don't see it" so I probably wasted my time typing that.
 
Offensively, we're missing the Ade of last season big-time.

We've probably gained a bit from JD and I suspect we may gain a bit from Clint as the season goes on, but not so far.
 
I've just seen some of Arsenals play tonight. Quick creative passing along with good movement. THAT is intelligent football. I'm not going to go back through posts and find it, but I'm sure I replied to some joker the other night trying to state that our lack of entertainment and ability to create is actually because we are more intelligent now. That sort of excuse is embarrassing, and purely down to having a manager with a fancy foreign name.

AVB isn't doing too badly at all now. But let's not pretend being cautious and hardworking takes a genius manager, we still haven't been anything special. He's gone back to basics with a team capable of a lot more, it's how he should have started the season but at least we're doing it now. I think we'll play with a lot more intelligence come the final 10 games.
 
Golfball said:
I've just seen some of Arsenals play tonight. Quick creative passing along with good movement. THAT is intelligent football. I'm not going to go back through posts and find it, but I'm sure I replied to some joker the other night trying to state that our lack of entertainment and ability to create is actually because we are more intelligent now. That sort of excuse is embarrassing, and purely down to having a manager with a fancy foreign name.

AVB isn't doing too badly at all now. But let's not pretend being cautious and hardworking takes a genius manager, we still haven't been anything special. He's gone back to basics with a team capable of a lot more, it's how he should have started the season but at least we're doing it now. I think we'll play with a lot more intelligence come the final 10 games.
Click to expand...

Your lack of context continues to take my breath away. By the way, I think the above line in bold is embarrassing.
 
Golfball may go over the top sometimes, but he does raise some valid points.

No doubt AVB has influenced the way we play in away games compared to last season, we look to take the game to the opposition whereas Redknapp could be a bit negative in certain away games last season. But other than that, I'm sorry, but I don't see a massive difference in the way we play compared to previous seasons. We still rely on our wingers to hurt teams and create the chances for our strikers. We still look poor for the most part when Bale doesn't have a good game, we don't win often when he's off form. Granted on Sunday we played very well without Bale being a factor. And we still struggle to break teams down who sit back against us.

So far, 8/10 for AVB. But he's not performed miracles. And to be fair, despite losing key players, he has a very good collection of players to choose from, aside from having little options up front. Lloris, Vertonghen, Ekotto, Freidel, Bale, Lennon, Caulker, Defoe, Dembele, Parker, Sandro. These players would get into any squad in the league.
 
We're a traditional British side who very much plays the "English" way. The way you two go on sounds as though you were expecting AVB to come in, click his fingers and we'd see a dramatic change in the style of football we play, we're not going to start playing like Arsenal or Barcelona unless you have a complete overhaul of the squad.
 
Rossi22 said:
We're a traditional British side who very much plays the "English" way. The way you two go on sounds as though you were expecting AVB to come in, click his fingers and we'd see a dramatic change in the style of football we play, we're not going to start playing like Arsenal or Barcelona unless you have a complete overhaul of the squad.
Click to expand...

I wasn't expecting any of that. I was expecting us to play a similar style of football to what we did last season, which we are. I also expected us to be in and around the top 6, which we are.
 
Golfball said:
I've just seen some of Arsenals play tonight. Quick creative passing along with good movement. THAT is intelligent football. I'm not going to go back through posts and find it, but I'm sure I replied to some joker the other night trying to state that our lack of entertainment and ability to create is actually because we are more intelligent now. That sort of excuse is embarrassing, and purely down to having a manager with a fancy foreign name.

AVB isn't doing too badly at all now. But let's not pretend being cautious and hardworking takes a genius manager, we still haven't been anything special. He's gone back to basics with a team capable of a lot more, it's how he should have started the season but at least we're doing it now. I think we'll play with a lot more intelligence come the final 10 games.
Click to expand...

We lack the player capable to play like Arsenal and like we did last season. We can't just magic technical playmakers out of the players we have at present.
 
Golfball said:
I've just seen some of Arsenals play tonight. Quick creative passing along with good movement. THAT is intelligent football. I'm not going to go back through posts and find it, but I'm sure I replied to some joker the other night trying to state that our lack of entertainment and ability to create is actually because we are more intelligent now. That sort of excuse is embarrassing, and purely down to having a manager with a fancy foreign name.

AVB isn't doing too badly at all now. But let's not pretend being cautious and hardworking takes a genius manager, we still haven't been anything special. He's gone back to basics with a team capable of a lot more, it's how he should have started the season but at least we're doing it now. I think we'll play with a lot more intelligence come the final 10 games.
Click to expand...

How long has Wenger been at Arsenal? He's had a lot of time to build a team to play the football he wants to play.

AVB on the other hand has been with us for 6 months and in that time he's lost two of our best attacking players, including one of our two super stars, had to bed in several new signings and had quite a few injury problems.

People are talking about signs of improvement, positive changes being made, not that this is as good as it gets or that AVB has succeeded in his job already.

Do you honestly believe that you see basic tactical stuff in our games that AVB doesn't see?
 
Jurgen the German said:
Golfball may go over the top sometimes, but he does raise some valid points.

No doubt AVB has influenced the way we play in away games compared to last season, we look to take the game to the opposition whereas Redknapp could be a bit negative in certain away games last season. But other than that, I'm sorry, but I don't see a massive difference in the way we play compared to previous seasons. We still rely on our wingers to hurt teams and create the chances for our strikers. We still look poor for the most part when Bale doesn't have a good game, we don't win often when he's off form. Granted on Sunday we played very well without Bale being a factor. And we still struggle to break teams down who sit back against us.

So far, 8/10 for AVB. But he's not performed miracles. And to be fair, despite losing key players, he has a very good collection of players to choose from, aside from having little options up front. Lloris, Vertonghen, Ekotto, Freidel, Bale, Lennon, Caulker, Defoe, Dembele, Parker, Sandro. These players would get into any squad in the league.
Click to expand...

I would debate the point about Harry and away games. I thought he was very willing to attack a fair amount of the time. I think the differences we are seeing in performances between this season and last come down to styles. Yes, essentially as I said above somewhere, we are a side who enjoys the work of Bale and Lennon in tandem when we are at our most exciting, but it is the way in which our attacking players are used. There is less reliance on them receiving the ball via Modric or VdV (because neither player is there!) and less reliance on their own sterling individual talents. Let me stress, I am NOT saying whether one is better than the other (that is personal opinion) I am merely trying to point out the chief differences. To my eye, AVB has worked very hard on developing a system of play which sees the team play as a unit which then works to allow our talent to create goalscoring situations. Yes, the high-line is part of that, as is the amount of hard work in all areas when there is a transition of possession. In short, I think we are much more disciplined, which given the integration of new players, the adaptation from our old 'pivot points' to the current side and dealing with injuries, is a very big deal. I understand Golfball's frustration when they turn on the TV and see the goons take apart a paper bag defence with cut-throat precision, I simply think it needs to be viewed in context and perspective. Providing we do not lose a player after 20 minutes on March 3rd, I expect a very different outcome.

One other thing I don't think AVB has received enough credit for, is the player/man-management side of things. He came with a stigma, a reputation and a shadow. It would take any new manager time to adapt. With that sort of extra baggage, not to mention his relative youth, he has climbed some enormous behind the scenes mountains which I think deserve mention.

I agree 100% on what you say with regards to the players you list, but again, of those, he has not been able to consistently call on Ekotto, Dembele or Parker, and we all know the Lloris/Brad situation.

Finally, regarding Bale. I genuinely believe he has a system developing whereby so long as he is given the money in the summer to replace Bale with quality (that is if he does, as expected, leave) that we will continue to make strides forward. BTW, I don't think you replace Bale, you just find quality to come in the squad in his place. He is unique and irreplaceable in that sense.

I hope this thread/debate can continue in this vein...
 
Golfball said:
I've just seen some of Arsenals play tonight. Quick creative passing along with good movement. THAT is intelligent football. I'm not going to go back through posts and find it, but I'm sure I replied to some joker the other night trying to state that our lack of entertainment and ability to create is actually because we are more intelligent now. That sort of excuse is embarrassing, and purely down to having a manager with a fancy foreign name.

AVB isn't doing too badly at all now. But let's not pretend being cautious and hardworking takes a genius manager, we still haven't been anything special. He's gone back to basics with a team capable of a lot more, it's how he should have started the season but at least we're doing it now. I think we'll play with a lot more intelligence come the final 10 games.
Click to expand...



Well seeing that it were I that referred to our play as more intelligent these past couple of months to what I've seen in recent years and it were you that immediately replied, I can only you mean the joker to be me?

I also did not state that our lack of entertainment and ability to create, is actually because we are more intelligent now.

What I did say is:


We're playing a far more intelligent game under, AVB, than what we have done under any of our previous managers in the past 20 years.

Our possession is improving when teams sit back and like all Spurs fans I just wish we had more of a lethal goal threat. Also, our defending to the counter attack has improved, something I felt under Harry, we'd never really got to grips with is looking very good now. All to often, I felt the excitement many talk about in previous seasons, was due to many of our games being ding dong affairs and not wholly due to our own play. This is different , we are limiting our opponents to few attempts like I've not seen before.



I'm having to say again, that under Harry, IMO many like yourself were watching games thinking how fantastically entertaining we were, when in fact the reality was, as good as we were, the naivety in some of the player's off the ball movements was abundantly clear to see and I remember many times both, Modric and VDV on the ball, bemused at the lack of movement in front of them. Defoe and Lennon of the forward players have improved considerably this season in offering themselves to the ball carrier.

And shall we debate our laughable set pieces under the previous management team? What was the stat last season , 49 corners between goals scored from that particular set piece, never mind our goals from outfield set pieces? A shocking stat for a team with top four aspirations and something that had carried over from previous seasons without being addressed?

We're now far better in extinguishing counter attacks before the opponent gets to our third, I'd say one of the best in the league in doing so these last couple of months. The previous management team had near three seasons to sort that part of our game out and I don't think ever got anywhere near to the level we're currently seeing, with games all to often resembling, basketball games. We would be having a go and then in an instant, our opponents would have us on the back foot and be threatening to score a goal of their own. This is the mistaken entertainment some fondly remember.

To me, the players now look far fitter, happier and stronger, largely I feel to the rotation, the fitness training and dare I say, the superior intelligence of the current coach and his backroom staff!
 
Last edited:
Im suprised people cant see a change in style. Under Harry there was far less player movement: Defoe pulls all over the place now getting involved in the build up play, many times ive seen Lennon in possession of the ball at basically a standard right back position with Walker ahead of him not up the wing but in field. Last year we had "the roaming Bale" who roamed completely out of the second half of the season, this year he's been extreme effective coming off the wing and i think he already has his best PL goals tally. Our possession stats are up, last year United came to the lane and walked it, this year we had 60% possession, despite our best ball retaining midfielders no longer being at the club.

In this thread people have acknowledged that our ball playing midfielders are gone, and yet were dominating possession. We're not playing in a traditional british way at all: break neck speed, frantic get it up there as quickly as possibly, we play a probing game, complemented by the ability to launch extremely effective counter attacks that are yielding results.

If people cant see a difference in the method/style then I really am shocked.
 
Armchair Expert said:
Im suprised people cant see a change in style. Under Harry there was far less player movement: Defoe pulls all over the place now getting involved in the build up play, many times ive seen Lennon in possession of the ball at basically a standard right back position with Walker ahead of him not up the wing but in field. Last year we had "the roaming Bale" who roamed completely out of the second half of the season, this year he's been extreme effective coming off the wing and i think he already has his best PL goals tally. Our possession stats are up, last year United came to the lane and walked it, this year we had 60% possession, despite our best ball retaining midfielders no longer being at the club.

In this thread people have acknowledged that our ball playing midfielders are gone, and yet were dominating possession. We're not playing in a traditional british way at all: break neck speed, frantic get it up there as quickly as possibly, we play a probing game, complemented by the ability to launch extremely effective counter attacks that are yielding results.

If people cant see a difference in the method/style then I really am shocked.
Click to expand...

100% disagree with that completely. Under Redknapp there was MORE movement. In fact there was often too much movement. One thing I have noticed under AVB is that we are less fluid, players are less likely to roam and we play a more rigid system (and these were the sort of observations I was expecting his supporters to make, but instead all I get was the media mantra observations of high line and pressing game even when neither are actually existing within our current team to any massive extent. Yes we play the offside trap, but it's not a high line. Last season we also played a high line by dominating possession and squeezing up the pitch as a result).
 
Armchair Expert said:
Im suprised people cant see a change in style. Under Harry there was far less player movement: Defoe pulls all over the place now getting involved in the build up play, many times ive seen Lennon in possession of the ball at basically a standard right back position with Walker ahead of him not up the wing but in field. Last year we had "the roaming Bale" who roamed completely out of the second half of the season, this year he's been extreme effective coming off the wing and i think he already has his best PL goals tally. Our possession stats are up, last year United came to the lane and walked it, this year we had 60% possession, despite our best ball retaining midfielders no longer being at the club.

In this thread people have acknowledged that our ball playing midfielders are gone, and yet were dominating possession. We're not playing in a traditional british way at all: break neck speed, frantic get it up there as quickly as possibly, we play a probing game, complemented by the ability to launch extremely effective counter attacks that are yielding results.

If people cant see a difference in the method/style then I really am shocked.
Click to expand...


Wow so much of that is untrue it's unreal. I'' break your post down further:

Far less player movement under Arry?

Categorically untrue. We press more i give you that but in terms of movement? last season Ade was constantly seen on the left, VDV was wherever he wanted to be, Bale was wherever he wanted to be, Lennon and Bale switched wings (they've done the same this season at times tbf), Luka got further up the pitch far more often than Dembele does and our full backs bombed forward more often. The only positions where you could say we've seen more movement is GK ...and possibly CB being that they push up more.

Possession stats are up?

Who cares when we're not creating nearly enough clear cut chances. Our possession is up because we play a more structured, rigid game now that relies more on patience.

United came to the Lane last season and walked it?

Scoreline wise maybe but did you actually watch the game? we controlled the game and they played worse than they did this season. They hit us with a sucker punch goal on the stroke of HT (totally undeserved) and we played Livermore (i'm sure we had a few other injuries). Stop trying to rewrite history.
 
Armchair Expert said:
Im suprised people cant see a change in style. Under Harry there was far less player movement: Defoe pulls all over the place now getting involved in the build up play, many times ive seen Lennon in possession of the ball at basically a standard right back position with Walker ahead of him not up the wing but in field. Last year we had "the roaming Bale" who roamed completely out of the second half of the season, this year he's been extreme effective coming off the wing and i think he already has his best PL goals tally. Our possession stats are up, last year United came to the lane and walked it, this year we had 60% possession, despite our best ball retaining midfielders no longer being at the club.

In this thread people have acknowledged that our ball playing midfielders are gone, and yet were dominating possession. We're not playing in a traditional british way at all: break neck speed, frantic get it up there as quickly as possibly, we play a probing game, complemented by the ability to launch extremely effective counter attacks that are yielding results.

If people cant see a difference in the method/style then I really am shocked.
Click to expand...

Superb post, agree completely.
 
Better pressing and more possession means less chances for the other lot. We still concede far too easily from the few chances we give away, but I'll put that down to all the injuries in our back 4.

The offensive movement this season seem far more "planned" and less random. There's little point in movement if the players are just running into poor positions. The chances will come once the players get more experience with how we're playing. Hopefully we can add some firepower or added creativity in the summer. With Bale and Defoe out of form we're still doing pretty well IMO.
 
why are we still talking about redknapp FFS? AVB is doing a great job, different style or not.. this constant looking back, comparison and pointless squabbling really is tiresome.

lets use this thread to discuss AVB, positively, negatively or otherwise, but for crying out loud let's leave harry out of it.
 
raboner said:
why are we still talking about redknapp FFS? AVB is doing a great job, different style or not.. this constant looking back, comparison and pointless squabbling really is tiresome.

lets use this thread to discuss AVB, positively, negatively or otherwise, but for crying out loud let's leave harry out of it.
Click to expand...

Something I can agree on. :)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back