Andre Villas-Boas - Head Coach

[thfcsteff]

Largely due to Modric and VDV.

if you try to explain to people how much of our play for the last two seasons went through Luka Modric, you will be laughed at, ridiculed and Harry's arrival season thrown in your face (you know, the one where he bought Keane and Defoe back, Palacios and - quite reasonably- spent time assessing the side he had). Even during his first full season, it wasn't until Modric was back from his 3 month injury that we made that late run for the CL.

In fact, don't even try to explain that our entire pattern of release/getting others into the play going forwards, relied on Modric dropping in and spraying the ball around. VDV was even more icing on the cake.

To come into a squad shorn of the players it was, let alone also missing it's fulcrum point, was a big step for any manager. Not only have we been learning a different way, we've seen Bale and Lennon learn new ways of making contributions to the play.

But hey, bish-bash-bosh easy-peasey eh?!!!

 

[Golfball]

1. No opinion, dig them out! Anything up to (and including) Newcash at home. Anything regarding his bizarre behaviour in the last week of the window with regards to Modric doesn't count because if I didn't criticize him directly on this forum for that behaviour, I was certainly critical.

2. No no NO! NOT just 'down to the England job' don't you remember, we've ben through this dance when I was filling your eyes with lies in PMs. What about his court case? The one which took his attention the PREVIOUS last half season as he prepared his defence for LAST January? That absolutely was a factor, but he deserved our support as he was our manager and he was 'innocent'...and yes, after all the quiet support he got from the club in dealing with his case, the second England put the job on the block early, he was halfway out the door. I'd say (and said) there were a couple of factors, but yes, the England one was massive. But 'could it have been a coincidence in my little world'? Oh sure! Why not! You're absolutely right and I am a liar! Sorry Harry, that 9-12 week 'coincidence' had me thinking it was your fault.

3) Virtually the ONLY posts you put up here are critical, negative and defend the previous manager. I've assessed what AVB's done and dealt with so far this season in numerous places, so you can dig around if you want, but the fact remains he could brick medals all over WHL and we could wipe the floor with teams for the next two to three months, in your eyes it will be to do with something other than him.

If only you were able to explain HOW the England stuff effected him. He stopped turning up at training did he and go scouting the rest of the prem ? We put in some decent performances in the games we didn't win. Quite unlucky in some games. However, the main point is you can never tell me HOW the England stuff lead to our dip in results. I question you, you fold. This is like the PM debate all over again.

My posts are based on the evidence we have. At the moment its a negative conclusion, I'm giving my honest opinion. Yes I'll defend the last manager as he did well, again thats based on his whole time here. How can I make a positive AVB post while performances are clueless ? We went through a spell when things looked like they were picking up and I started to praise him. I've always listed my positive performances and results in this thread - problem is its not like I have loads to pick from is it. I've already told you I wont do these posts if we become great, I've spent enough time criticising the likes of you for it, im not about to start doing it. However, just to state this AGAIN, dont we need a good run of really good performances before I can do it?

 

[thfcsteff]

Apparently just saying his tactics were wrong is good enough, I'm not quite sure what that means exactly but it seems to work for some posters in this thread.

Absolutely.

 

[Golfball]

It needs tweaking is my point but your blind to the positives because your Harry was asked to go. If your Harry was still at the helm I would be saying the same thing.

Tottenham Hotspur 1 Stoke City 1

van der Vaart 90+3 Jerome 75

:ross: Please read the last few pages. Totally irrelevant point. If anything last seasons result helps my point. And I couldnt care less about Harry now. If AVB wins the league I dont care who was previously in charge, Im bringing up Harry in regards to what the same people said about him last season. However I remain totally consistent. Harry got us playing well, I said so. If AVB gets us playing well, I'll say so. Happy ?

 

[Golfball]

Apparently just saying his tactics were wrong is good enough, I'm not quite sure what that means exactly but it seems to work for some posters in this thread.

What dont you understand ? The performances are dull and not very good. Im giving the opinion that our performances are a reflection of the tactics. Totally logical and never been any different, until AVB took over.

 

[Golfball]

Can I ask what the people 'against' AVB want him to have done today? And whether they think it was a really obvious thing to do that the manager has just missed? I mean, what really is there?

He picked a good team. Dawson, Caulker and Vertonghen were all on the pitch and where they should have been to combat Stoke's height. Ade and Defoe picked up top firstly to give us two up top at home (which most fans clamoured for after the start to the season) and also to use Ade's height to defend set pieces. Midfield picked itself. What exactly should the manager have done differently? We limited Stoke to sod all, but when it comes to scoring goals there also isn't much he can do there. He's picked a good team. He's prepared them in a thoroughly detailed manner, and unfortunately we wasn't able to break down a team with one of the best defensive records in Europe, that came to show zero ambition for the entire game.

So again, what exactly could he have done? How exactly are phrases such as 'It's clear he isn't doing a very good job' when we are in touching distance of third place in any way supposed to be taken seriously? The only way it's done, is by holding the games earlier in the season against him, when he was introducing a new playing style and ignoring the fact that performances have since then improved.

Its not about today. Why do people keep mentioning today ? What part of the thread title says Spurs v Stoke ?

Its about our performances over the whole season. Today was just another one of many. What has he done wrong this season should be the question you are asking.

My answer would be he has failed to implement a style of play capable of producing good consistent attacking football. We arent a team capable of breaking down the opposition and this comes back to the manager to find a solution, but he hasnt and it has become a real problem.

I'll ask you the question, why are our poor performances not related to the manager ? I quite agree team selection probably wouldnt change much no matter who our manager was. But I could guarantee some managers would have us playing a lot better.

Why is this such a problem for some ? Its not like we are playing brilliant football and im trying to claim otherwise is it ?

 

[ArnieArdiles]

:ross: Please read the last few pages. Totally irrelevant point. If anything last seasons result helps my point. And I couldnt care less about Harry now. If AVB wins the league I dont care who was previously in charge, Im bringing up Harry in regards to what the same people said about him last season. However I remain totally consistent. Harry got us playing well, I said so. If AVB gets us playing well, I'll say so. Happy ?

So, this is about what the same people were saying about Harry last season and is the sole reason for your posts ?

Stoke nearly won the game last season and we were looking to salvage a point. This season we were trying to win the game with a dominant performance but facts like that don't matter to you . Unbelievable =;

 

[thfcsteff]

If only you were able to explain HOW the England stuff effected him. He stopped turning up at training did he and go scouting the rest of the prem ? We put in some decent performances in the games we didn't win. Quite unlucky in some games. However, the main point is you can never tell me HOW the England stuff lead to our dip in results. I question you, you fold. This is like the PM debate all over again.

My posts are based on the evidence we have. At the moment its a negative conclusion, I'm giving my honest opinion. Yes I'll defend the last manager as he did well, again thats based on his whole time here. How can I make a positive AVB post while performances are clueless ? We went through a spell when things looked like they were picking up and I started to praise him. I've always listed my positive performances and results in this thread - problem is its not like I have loads to pick from is it. I've already told you I wont do these posts if we become great, I've spent enough time criticising the likes of you for it, im not about to start doing it. However, just to state this AGAIN, dont we need a good run of really good performances before I can do it?

If a man thinks he is going to get the national job, his mind will wander to that job.
His focus becomes a little less, his long-term comittment becomes less.
The dressing room isn't sure if he's going to be there beyond June, thus perhaps they slack off a bit.
The manager doesn't pay as close attention to the details as he used to, and suddenly, tired players aren't being rotated and potential squad rotation players are allowed to leave (amidst the end of the court case time, Pienaar was allowed to leave) and Kranjcar was on the bench what, 12 times as an unused sub?
The manager came out in the summer (when hunting a new contract having seen the England job go up in smoke) and expressly says that players like to know if their manager is settled, that an unsettled manager can cause problems for the squad.
Oh, and as soon as the England job went up in smoke, we hammered the next two teams we played.

Did we have some bad luck? Yes. But did we have an inexcusable slump which saw the 10 point lead we'd played so well to achieve disappear? Absolutely. And did that happen during the England stuff? indeed it did. Could that be coincidence? Of course it could be, but I presume you also believe in leprechauns and will unblock the chimney for Santa. BTW, this is all without turning to my 'lie spigot'...

The only thing I have to say is that I hope you were as severe with your criticisms of Redknapp in his first 6 months. Because the results were far less spectacular.

 

[Golfball]

Largely due to Modric and VDV.

Then what on earth was AVB doing in letting VDV go ? It is largely accepted AVB didnt see VDV fitting into his system.

VDV said himself he was happy to stay at Spurs, even if his preferred choice was to take his family back to his old club.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

What dont you understand ? The performances are dull and not very good. Im giving the opinion that our performances are a reflection of the tactics. Totally logical and never been any different, until AVB took over.

It wasn't dull today. It was one way traffic. If it was dull it was because Stoke made it so. Not because AVB wanted it that way. Norwich, West Brom and Wigan - no arguments there and all rubbish performances. But the point is when you are at home you have to impose your own style. If you've just lost key players and are learning a completely new style and way of thinking about games then you will struggle at home. We were good away. Since then performances at home have steadily improved. I don't think today was a set back, it was just attack v defence and we didn't quite make it - I'm not sure what the tactic to break down 11 men behind the ball is that AVB just hasn't discovered yet? And why hasn't it been packaged up and sold to every professional coach in the world?

As for the England thing, it affected the players because it knocks confidence. Hard to prove scientifically, but every time a manager is linked with another job it happens. I don't think Harry actually stopped working any harder, but the players knew he wanted to be somewhere else and from then on everything that could have gone wrong for us in games, did. I firmly believe that was caused by a lack of confidence and sureness in the long term future of the club because of the manager getting linked away every single day to another job.

 

[thfcsteff]

Then what on earth was AVB doing in letting VDV go ? It is largely accepted AVB didnt see VDV fitting into his system.

VDV said himself he was happy to stay at Spurs, even if his preferred choice was to take his family back to his old club.

(sigh) AVB thought he was getting Moutinho and I believe there was an expectation of Sigurdsson as an option too, thus two reasons. One didn't materialise because Levy failed (too many owners involved in Moutinho deal)...oh, and this...


Sylvia was there you know...and if we can put down our bludgeoning sticks for five seconds, I'm sure even WE could agree that if you got the chance to be closer to a missus like THAT, you'd swim the channel and run the rest!!!

http://sportwitness.ning.com/forum/topics/rafael-van-der-vaart-gave-up-over-3m-to-leave-tottenham-but-says-?xg_source=activity

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Its not about today. Why do people keep mentioning today ? What part of the thread title says Spurs v Stoke ?

Its about our performances over the whole season. Today was just another one of many. What has he done wrong this season should be the question you are asking.

My answer would be he has failed to implement a style of play capable of producing good consistent attacking football. We arent a team capable of breaking down the opposition and this comes back to the manager to find a solution, but he hasnt and it has become a real problem.

I'll ask you the question, why are our poor performances not related to the manager ? I quite agree team selection probably wouldnt change much no matter who our manager was. But I could guarantee some managers would have us playing a lot better.

Why is this such a problem for some ? Its not like we are playing brilliant football and im trying to claim otherwise is it ?

So it's not about today.....it's about performances months ago? We have improved since the poor earlier days and I explained above why I think that could be. We broke down an utterly defensive Swansea team last week but unfortunately couldn't do it today. Was AVB doing good enough last week but not this week?

 

[Jurgen the German]

That was based on what he did for the previous 3 seasons.
People are judging AVB on a few games with a team he inherited and by what idiots on talksport say about him.

So you think it's ok for fans to call for a manager's head after only two games? Those games being against the two best teams in the country also, which btw, we didn't have Modric for, he played against Emirates Marketing Project, but he wasn't really there, looked like he couldn't give a toss. Plus we didn't have Adebayor.

 

[Jurgen the German]

He moved Modric to right wing did he not? That was the basis for the criticism Harry received after the game. If AVB did something similar then I'd expect the same for him but he hasn't.

As for golfball, you brought up Harry and last season in one of your previous posts so I added to it and as for the tactics, you don't know what the tactics are unless you have access to AVB's notepad.

People were acting like we should have just turned up and roll Saudi Sportswashing Machine over, despite them being above us in the league and playing really well. And as I mentioned before, we never win there. The kneejerking wasn't reserved purely for the decision to move Modric. We also had King go off with an injury, but people didn't care what extenuating circumstances there were for the last manager did they?

 

[Rossi22]

The reason Harry deserved criticism after the same game last season and why AVB doesn't is because -

The game last season was amidst our collapse so frustrations were already high, we'd moved away from the system(4411) that had gotten us into such a great position to begin with to 442 for no apparent reason whatsoever. This was the game that Hary actually reverted back to 4411 and before the game he was fairly critical of the fans claiming we're unpatient and that we get on the team's back too soon. The 1st half was actually pretty good, we moved the ball well, created chances and were unlucky not to be leading, then again for no reason at all he takes a midfielder off and goes 442, we lost all initiative, went 1-0 down and only just about snatched a point in the final minute and this was with a much stronger squad than we have now.

Today's game AVB picked the best side available in most fans' eyes, some may have wanted Naughton, some may have wanted Sigurdsson in there somewhere but it's all semantics. We did well in two thirds of the pitch but our attacking players didn't get the job done in the final 3rd, no one knows what "tactics" AVB drummed into them prior and during the game so using that as a cheap way out is a little weak. We drew the game, it's a draw during a reasonably decent run of form yet for some reason(we know what) we have posters on here clammering to find the AVB thread to up it and stick the knife in as soon as the final whistle goes. Today's game was more like the 1-1 draw at home to Wolves last season where we missed the chance to go within 1 point of 1st(I think), no blame on the manager, he picked the right side, we just couldn't break the opposition down.

 

[Jurgen the German]

Then what on earth was AVB doing in letting VDV go ? It is largely accepted AVB didnt see VDV fitting into his system.

VDV said himself he was happy to stay at Spurs, even if his preferred choice was to take his family back to his old club.

Don't bring that up on here. VDV's decision to go was his and his alone if you listen to most people on this forum. I'm not blaming AVB solely, personally I think it was down to Levy.

 

[Jurgen the German]

The reason Harry deserved criticism after the same game last season and why AVB doesn't is because -

The game last season was amidst our collapse so frustrations were already high, we'd moved away from the system(4411) that had gotten us into such a great position to begin with to 442 for no apparent reason whatsoever. This was the game that Hary actually reverted back to 4411 and before the game he was fairly critical of the fans claiming we're unpatient and that we get on the team's back too soon. The 1st half was actually pretty good, we moved the ball well, created chances and were unlucky not to be leading, then again for no reason at all he takes a midfielder off and goes 442, we lost all initiative, went 1-0 down and only just about snatched a point in the final minute and this was with a much stronger squad than we have now.

Today's game AVB picked the best side available in most fans' eyes, some may have wanted Naughton, some may have wanted Sigurdsson in there somewhere but it's all semantics. We did well in two thirds of the pitch but our attacking players didn't get the job done in the final 3rd, no one knows what "tactics" AVB drummed into them prior and during the game so using that as a cheap way out is a little weak. We drew the game, it's a draw during a reasonably decent run of form yet for some reason(we know what) we have posters on here clammering to find the AVB thread to up it and stick the knife in as soon as the final whistle goes. Today's game was more like the 1-1 draw at home to Wolves last season where we missed the chance to go within 1 point of 1st(I think), no blame on the manager, he picked the right side, we just couldn't break the opposition down.

But our best defender went off when we were winning 1-0, we then went on to concede two goals. But people didn't want to take that into account then. A draw at Saudi Sportswashing Machine last season was a great result. But people were acting like it was the end of the world.

 

[Jurgen the German]

The reason Harry deserved criticism after the same game last season and why AVB doesn't is because -

The game last season was amidst our collapse so frustrations were already high, we'd moved away from the system(4411) that had gotten us into such a great position to begin with to 442 for no apparent reason whatsoever. This was the game that Hary actually reverted back to 4411 and before the game he was fairly critical of the fans claiming we're unpatient and that we get on the team's back too soon. The 1st half was actually pretty good, we moved the ball well, created chances and were unlucky not to be leading, then again for no reason at all he takes a midfielder off and goes 442, we lost all initiative, went 1-0 down and only just about snatched a point in the final minute and this was with a much stronger squad than we have now.

Today's game AVB picked the best side available in most fans' eyes, some may have wanted Naughton, some may have wanted Sigurdsson in there somewhere but it's all semantics. We did well in two thirds of the pitch but our attacking players didn't get the job done in the final 3rd, no one knows what "tactics" AVB drummed into them prior and during the game so using that as a cheap way out is a little weak. We drew the game, it's a draw during a reasonably decent run of form yet for some reason(we know what) we have posters on here clammering to find the AVB thread to up it and stick the knife in as soon as the final whistle goes. Today's game was more like the 1-1 draw at home to Wolves last season where we missed the chance to go within 1 point of 1st(I think), no blame on the manager, he picked the right side, we just couldn't break the opposition down.

But our best defender went off when we were winning 1-0, we then went on to concede two goals. But people didn't want to take that into account then. A draw at Saudi Sportswashing Machine last season was a great result. But people were acting like it was the end of the world.

 

[Rossi22]

People were acting like we should have just turned up and roll Saudi Sportswashing Machine over, despite them being above us in the league and playing really well. And as I mentioned before, we never win there. The kneejerking wasn't reserved purely for the decision to move Modric. We also had King go off with an injury, but people didn't care what extenuating circumstances there were for the last manager did they?

This wasn't the case at all. We were on a good run but because of an injury to Lennon, Harry decided that moving our best player out of position to cover it was better than just using Kranjcar or Pienaar or going to a more natural 433. If the team had been left alone then there would have been no backlash to the performance. It was a legitmiate criticism of Harry as whenever he was missing a player or two, he didn't use the massive squad he'd assembled, he'd rather move multiple players out of position to cover the loss of one player, he did this numerous times and that's why he was left with half a squad's worth of unhappy and rusty players.

If AVB moves Dembele to right wing and brings in Livermore to cover him all because of an injury to Lennon then I'd rightly criticise him for it, as would others ... some even more so.

 

[Jurgen the German]

if you try to explain to people how much of our play for the last two seasons went through Luka Modric, you will be laughed at, ridiculed and Harry's arrival season thrown in your face (you know, the one where he bought Keane and Defoe back, Palacios and - quite reasonably- spent time assessing the side he had). Even during his first full season, it wasn't until Modric was back from his 3 month injury that we made that late run for the CL.

In fact, don't even try to explain that our entire pattern of release/getting others into the play going forwards, relied on Modric dropping in and spraying the ball around. VDV was even more icing on the cake.

To come into a squad shorn of the players it was, let alone also missing it's fulcrum point, was a big step for any manager. Not only have we been learning a different way, we've seen Bale and Lennon learn new ways of making contributions to the play.

But hey, bish-bash-bosh easy-peasey eh?!!!

We've been through this before. We are not the only team to have had upheavel. Liverpool have a new manager. Arsenal lost their two best players from last season. But somehow, OUR PROBLEMS/INJURIES are more important and valid than our rivals.