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Andre Villas-Boas - Head Coach

You are him - or 'Spursfan1957' or 'On The Ball' or whoever the latest alias is - but that's besides the point and rather amusing, if anything.

Have a look at the poll thread - all the votes are public - i.e. you can view the posters

'Best' and 'Most Successful' are two separate aspects.

Redknapp had the best team in 2 decades and hardly ever managed to take us beyond the sum of our parts - at least not as consistently as a top manager would have, imv. Barrichello also won a few races for Ferrari back in their domination years.

I agree that Redknapp didn't have us playing over and beyond the capabilities of the players beyond his first half season in charge. But neither did any other Spurs Manager of the Premiership era other than Hoddle in the first few months of the 2002/03 season.
 
I don't really agree with any of that, except that Sandro would be ahead of parker, but even then he'd be rotated with sandro keeping them both fresh IMO.

Again your isolating injuries and saying they're not so bad, but how about retirements and players being sold, like i've said the last couple of posts you have to include all factors, you can't just pick and choose certain areas that may backup your point. Unless you've completely missed my point in the opening post, you've missed out Modric and VDV as players missing from the previous seasons 1st team and seem to be thinking that Ade isn't part of the injury list? the 1st team last year was Brad, Walker, Kaboul, King (whenever he was fit), BAE, Lennon, Modric, Parker, Bale, VDV, Ade. AVB's had 4 players available from that team this season, surely that's not even debateable.

From what I gather AVB isn't a big squad rotater so what makes you think he would do that with Sandro and Parker?

You're missing my point. My point is that even with a lesser Spurs team, even if we changed all XI players, we should surely be in a position where we are beating relegation candidates at home. Unless you think with the changes made over the Summer we are actually weaker than the likes of Wigan and Norwich in which case it is pointless us trying to discuss this as we fundamentally disagree.
 
But it's so obviously a problem with the fact the new style of play and thinking about the game hasn't clicked with the players yet, rather than any outright tactical mistakes or poor motivation from the manager.

I wish people would look at actually what the problems are, rather than saying 'well we dropped points to these teams we should be beating so obviously it isn't working with AVB'. Look at what he is trying to do. He is trying to get us to play a certain way and once it does click, we will be better for it.

I don't think we know that and that is your opinion. The what, whys, whens and hows mean very little in the world of football. The results and performances matter.
 
Are you possibly suggesting our current team isn't any weaker that last season?

We haven't even had our best midfielder available for the last 4 games either

In my opinion Bale is our best midfielder so I can't agree with the availability comment.

Yes I think the team is weaker than last season, but I still think it's a strong enough team to get top six. Even without Dembele it's a strong enough team to get top six. A top six team should be beating relegation candidates at home.
 
From what I gather AVB isn't a big squad rotater so what makes you think he would do that with Sandro and Parker?

You're missing my point. My point is that even with a lesser Spurs team, even if we changed all XI players, we should surely be in a position where we are beating relegation candidates at home. Unless you think with the changes made over the Summer we are actually weaker than the likes of Wigan and Norwich in which case it is pointless us trying to discuss this as we fundamentally disagree.

Ofcourse we should be beating relegation teams at home, but if football were that simple we wouldn't be beating Utd away either. We're not the only team to lose games that on paper we shouldn't, Redknapp's Spurs done it plenty of times as well.

I think common sense would suggest that he'd try and keep Sandro fresh if he's got someone of the ability of Parker on the bench. Unless AVB's going to be playing the kids he doesn't have much option than to play the same players each week, as the squads been disassembled and ravaged with injuries.

What exactly is your point? That you think we have as good a squad / 1st team as last season? Because if that is the case and your judging AVB on those standards then I think we fundamentaly disagree as well.
 
Bale is a winger - not a central midfielder

Top 6 with Huddlestone as our starting CM/creative outlet? - not a chance.

You didn't specify central midfielder, only midfielder. And Bale and Lennon play in a midfield 5, or 4.

Huddlestone was a regular first teamer in a season we finished 4th if my memory serves me correctly.
 
Ofcourse we should be beating relegation teams at home, but if football were that simple we wouldn't be beating Utd away either. We're not the only team to lose games that on paper we shouldn't, Redknapp's Spurs done it plenty of times as well.

I think common sense would suggest that he'd try and keep Sandro fresh if he's got someone of the ability of Parker on the bench. Unless AVB's going to be playing the kids he doesn't have much option than to play the same players each week, as the squads been disassembled and ravaged with injuries.

What exactly is your point? That you think we have as good a squad / 1st team as last season? Because if that is the case and your judging AVB on those standards then I think we fundamentaly disagree as well.

That is why earlier I said that the odd upset can happen and not much should be read into it. But that upset should only happen a couple of times a season at most at home.

My point is simple:

We aren't as good as last season, but even with the injuries we've had and the squad turnover we've had we should be beating relegation candidates at home. We can't use injuries or a change of Manager as a legitimate excuse as to why we've been so poor at home this season.

Redknapp's teams also lost against weaker teams on too many occassions, and it surely must have a been a contributing factor into why he was sacked. It wasn't good enough under Redknapp. It isn't good enough under ANY Manager.
 
You didn't specify central midfielder, only midfielder. And Bale and Lennon play in a midfield 5, or 4.

Huddlestone was a regular first teamer in a season we finished 4th if my memory serves me correctly.

Huddlestone was also out injured for a season, a season where we finished 4th.
 
That is why earlier I said that the odd upset can happen and not much should be read into it. But that upset should only happen a couple of times a season at most at home.

My point is simple:

We aren't as good as last season, but even with the injuries we've had and the squad turnover we've had we should be beating relegation candidates at home. We can't use injuries or a change of Manager as a legitimate excuse as to why we've been so poor at home this season.

Redknapp's teams also lost against weaker teams on too many occassions, and it surely must have a been a contributing factor into why he was sacked. It wasn't good enough under Redknapp. It isn't good enough under ANY Manager.

Difference being that it was happening to often under Redknapp after he had been in charge for over 3 years.

Meanwhile AVB has just gotten started. Should he not be offered some time to get things the way he wants them?
 
That is why earlier I said that the odd upset can happen and not much should be read into it. But that upset should only happen a couple of times a season at most at home.

My point is simple:

We aren't as good as last season, but even with the injuries we've had and the squad turnover we've had we should be beating relegation candidates at home. We can't use injuries or a change of Manager as a legitimate excuse as to why we've been so poor at home this season.

Redknapp's teams also lost against weaker teams on too many occassions, and it surely must have a been a contributing factor into why he was sacked. It wasn't good enough under Redknapp. It isn't good enough under ANY Manager.

ok, I just think that's an unrealistic point of view to expect us to click this early when he's had to integrate 8 new players in to the 1st team from last season and a different style of play. I'm happy to give him time to get his ideas across. We won't have this many injuries throughout his reign so that's a positive and he'll have future transfer windows to get the players he thinks will fit his system.
 
But it's so obviously a problem with the fact the new style of play and thinking about the game hasn't clicked with the players yet, rather than any outright tactical mistakes or poor motivation from the manager.

I wish people would look at actually what the problems are, rather than saying 'well we dropped points to these teams we should be beating so obviously it isn't working with AVB'. Look at what he is trying to do. He is trying to get us to play a certain way and once it does click, we will be better for it.

Can you describe the way he's trying to get us to play from an attacking perspective?
 
Huddlestone was a regular first teamer in a season we finished 4th if my memory serves me correctly.

Yeah, Zokora also had a few decent games back in the day - but both suggestions are completely irrelevant in this specific discussion

He's not Top 6 material in the slightest, any which way you spin it
 
While perusing the interwebz I found this on RAWK, written by a Liverpool fan:

When Spurs had something close to their first choice eleven, they won nearly all their games, and won at old Trafford, for the first time since madonna had a number one with Vogue. They were able to execute the game plan that villas boas had in mind, they were lethal on the counter attack, and won the ball back. The problem for spurs is that outside of that XI, he doesn't have that many players that can play that high line, pressing, fast counter attacking game. A player like Michael Dawson, who would be a decent enough premiership centre half at a slightly smaller club, is completely useless to Villas boas, because he's slower than a wet week. It's the same in other positions. once you start to move away from their strongest team, you start to introduce players who aren't very good at executing the system, so you wind up with some players pressing, and others staying back, and huge gaps appearing everywhere.

This is where dembele is already so important to them. He rampages around midfield, closing people down, winning tackles and making interceptions, before powering up the field and playing one twos. With him in their team, there is a much higher chance of Villas boas' system working, and spurs winning the game.

I heard Martin Lipton talking on the radio last night, and they were saying that the spurs hierarchy are very impressed with Villas-Boas, and are prepared to give him quite a lot of time to get it right. The players are also very impressed by how hard he works and his attention to detail, and the only real complaints about him so far are that he is a bit too intense. Levy even gave them a standing ovation at the end of that match at the weekend.

I think the issue boils down to finances. Spurs generate their own money for transfers, and keep a tight control of wages. (almost always 55% of turnover) They've turned a transfer profit of £32 million over the last two seasons, and Villas boas' efforts to sign players in the transfer market were severely hampered by levy dragging the sale of modric out to the end of the transfer window, when it was too late to sort out Moutinho's complicated ownership. They took too long to sign oscar, and chelsea nipped in while they were still negotiating, and he didn't really get the centre forward he wanted either, and plays Defoe instead of Adebayor.

Spurs have decided to appoint a manager with a very clear system and a way of playing, and are hoping to punch above their financial weight, by being able to sign players with potential, and turn them into stars within this system. They're looking to make the whole of their team much greater than the sum of their individual parts. They're hovering on the edge of the champions league places over the last couple of seasons. If they can make the step up and start to regularly qualify, they can build themselves up to the level where they can start to challenge for the title. It's all about gradual and solid growth.

Spurs will have a lot of money to spend in the summer. They will shift on the players who are either too old, or don't fit the system, and buy in players who are better suited, and that's when the spurs board will expect him to deliver.

Actually you could basically say that right now, spurs are kind of where we hope to be next season, with a better established system, of play, with a strong first eleven, and moving towards a strong squad. In fact pretty much everything I've written about spurs up there could be applied to us as well. They have a substantial headstart on us in a lot of respects, but our vastly greater cash generating capacity will help us catch up.
 
In my opinion Bale is our best midfielder so I can't agree with the availability comment.

Yes I think the team is weaker than last season, but I still think it's a strong enough team to get top six. Even without Dembele it's a strong enough team to get top six. A top six team should be beating relegation candidates at home.

regardless of whether you're right or wrong, why not wait until May and see what happens?
 
Yeah, Zokora also had a few decent games back in the day - but both suggestions are completely irrelevant in this specific discussion

He's not Top 6 material in the slightest, any which way you spin it
Huddlestone has played well in wins over Arsenal, Chelsea, Inter, City. He clearly can cut it, but is admittedly out of sorts at the moment. I'm not sure he ever will be a regular starter for us again but his past contributions are far too easily written off
 
Huddlestone has played well in wins over Arsenal, Chelsea, Inter, City. He clearly can cut it, but is admittedly out of sorts at the moment. I'm not sure he ever will be a regular starter for us again but his past contributions are far too easily written off

The impact he had when he came off the bench against Young Boys was immense. Without him we would never have progressed.
 
While perusing the interwebz I found this on RAWK, written by a Liverpool fan:

That it took a Liverpool supporter, incidentally, a supporter from a club that gets stupidly caned on this forum week in week out in that abomination of a thread about 'why I hate Liverpool', is telling.

Frankly, I am getting sick of reading about what AVB is getting wrong all the time. Is he beyond criticism? No. But rare is the moment that many on here come out and talk about what he's doing right!

The spectre of Harry keep on popping up, yet whenever his supporters are asked to perhaps remember he is no longer here, or even challenged with some perfectly decent FACTS about his era, they are shouted down and accused of 'hatred' and 'always being anti' and all SORTS of flimflam.

I have supported this club for roughly 40 conscious years. I have travelled thousands upon thousands of miles and spent more money than I care to consider. I have seen great moments and I have experienced brick eras. But I have never, ever seen a support base so fickle, so edgy and so utterly defensive of a man who left us floundering two seasons in a row, whilst ripping apart every single facet of the new man (who is working his gonads off).

I hope I last on this forum long enough to see the AVB era bear consistent fruit. I think not only will it do that, but there will be a structure in place to allow that to happen.

I stayed until the final whistle on Saturday. I applauded them. They looked gutted. They looked very very down. As we all were. But we DID play well, save that 20 mins after the sending off. And at 4-2, the whole atmosphere in the ground was that we could very likely bring it back to 4-4.

It is my opinion that just as we lost 5-2 in February and it signaled a downward spiral, this 5-2 defeat will be the making of the AVB Tottenham Hotspur.

Again, extraordinary that it took a Liverpool supporter to so eloquently say what too many spurs supporters are too ignorant and scared to.

I believe in what Andres Villas Boas is trying to do, and I believe in what the club is trying to build in terms of a proper youth structure, a proper squad structure, and a belief which exceeds the individual brilliance of specific players to make it work. I hold my hand up high and am happy to be counted.

Because in the end, if I 'win', if I'm 'right', then we ALL win and we're ALL right!

COYS
 
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