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American politics

Rafa87 said:
That’s fine you’re right I dont fully understand the gun laws, but to me to say he “interefered with them” is just a cheap way of finding an offence he committed.

When you watch that video, he shouts a it in protest of the way in which they are treating another person, these ICE blokes then go and start shoving another person and he steps in to help them. If that gets put up that he’s causing an offence and “interfering with them” then I’m sorry, but that’s incredible cowardice from the legal system in America and basically covering up.

That just means the minute someone goes to a protest they commit an offence as there will always be a “they shouted” “they swore” “they called me a mean name”.

Regardless, I’ll take your word on it as you are obviously more clued up on American gun laws than me. However, to me, that’s nothing other than a trigger happy ICE agent who murdered that man because he wanted to shoot someone, and took a cheap opportunity to do so. There was no threat, any half decent risk assessment would have told him that when he has that many people around him. The man died because those agents WANTED to kill him, not because he was a threat or committing a serious offence. I know murder requires the intent as well, but honestly at this point, I think these ICE agents go out looking for any reason available. They’re playing soldiers.
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I agree with you here except for a few key points.

1. It as not ICE agents he interacted with. It was Border Agents, who again were only present because the police were told to stand down.
2. You miss that he then went on to resist arrest while carrying a firearm.
3. Even if it was as you say, him just helping the lady who was pushed, that’s still interfering with law enforcement. He has absolutely no clue why they are interacting. And when you do that while carrying a firearm, even if it’s permitted and concealed, the law treats the presence of a firearm as dramatically increasing risk and harm and his 2nd amendment rights are waived.

None of this means the agent should not be found guilty of murder. But let’s also not pretend that Alex Pretti was this guy thay was out for a jog and stumbled his way into this situation and got shot for doing a good deed.
 
MartyFunkhouser said:
Strategically, by identifying them and working on intel, not going round and approaching anyone that "Looks" foreign in the street on the off chance you might catch someone ad hoc
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And in those instances, especially in certain cities like Minnesota, when that happens they are being impeded by the public. Blocking their cars, honking horns to warn people to run. How should that be dealt with?

Specially in the case of Renee Good it was part of a broader immigration enforcement mission arresting immigrants with criminal violations that had been identified and located.
 
robp135 said:
And in those instances, especially in certain cities like Minnesota, when that happens they are being impeded by the public. Blocking their cars, honking horns to warn people to run. How should that be dealt with?

Specially in the case of Renee Good it was part of a broader immigration enforcement mission arresting immigrants with criminal violations that had been identified and located.
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But its not, the discourse and protests is in response to the randomness of their operations and the failures and mistakes. The street and spot checks of people based on their perceived ethnicity, that's anything but strategic.

Its been widely said that ICE could have ignored Renee Good and carried on to their goals, they decided to stop and engage when at least 2 other vehicles and agents had ignored (goes back to being poorly trained)

I'm sorry to be blunt, but if you think any of what you see is well thought out and strategic then there is no helping you
 
MartyFunkhouser said:
But its not, the discourse and protests is in response to the randomness of their operations and the failures and mistakes. The street and spot checks of people based on their perceived ethnicity, that's anything but strategic.

Its been widely said that ICE could have ignored Renee Good and carried on to their goals, they decided to stop and engage when at least 2 other vehicles and agents had ignored (goes back to being poorly trained)

I'm sorry to be blunt, but if you think any of what you see is well thought out and strategic then there is no helping you
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It was also widely reported that ICE arrested a 5 year old and that turned out to be utter gonads.

Mass deportations was a mandate for the democratically elected US President. It was one of his most popular campaign promises. There are protests taking place in every city.

The only cites where there are violent interactions with ICE and where those protests become organized resistance actively preventing law enforcement from doing their job.
 
robp135 said:
It was also widely reported that ICE arrested a 5 year old and that turned out to be utter gonads.

Mass deportations was a mandate for the democratically elected US President. It was one of his most popular campaign promises. There are protests taking place in every city.

The only cites where there are violent interactions with ICE and where those protests become organized resistance actively preventing law enforcement from doing their job.
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There have also been a number of wrongful arrests, detentions and deportations

Its absolutely this, the profiling and the tactics taken which is causing the issues.

The US has deported illegals for decades, this kind of resistance hasn't been seen before BECAUSE this is the most militant and extreme in actions as has been seen, people are going to react to that and they are.
 
MartyFunkhouser said:
There have also been a number of wrongful arrests, detentions and deportations

Its absolutely this, the profiling and the tactics taken which is causing the issues.

The US has deported illegals for decades, this kind of resistance hasn't been seen before BECAUSE this is the most militant and extreme in actions as has been seen, people are going to react to that and they are.
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Not at a rate that was desired by the US public. This is all a consequence of the open border policy of the last Biden administration, who I would have voted for if I was able to by the way. But that’s what has caused the situation we are in.

The only US citizens to be deported are children that needed to remain with thier parents.
 
robp135 said:
Not at a rate that was desired by the US public. This is all a consequence of the open border policy of the last Biden administration, who I would have voted for if I was able to by the way. But that’s what has caused the situation we are in.

The only US citizens to be deported are children that needed to remain with thier parents.
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But the rate isnt the issue here, its the tactics being deployed, thats where the discourse comes from, along with the wrongful arrests and profiling
 
robp135 said:
It was also widely reported that ICE arrested a 5 year old and that turned out to be utter gonads.

Mass deportations was a mandate for the democratically elected US President. It was one of his most popular campaign promises. There are protests taking place in every city.

The only cites where there are violent interactions with ICE and where those protests become organized resistance actively preventing law enforcement from doing their job.
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Out of interest, are you posting in the hopes of having a conversation or are you simply looking to say you believe you're right? And take this as a genuine question, not goading. I purposely avoid posting in political threads these days for various reasons, but I do read everything posted and I wanted to specifically ask you this question.
 
I think we in this country have a totally different view to guns and their use from the US, a great number of their population have been raised believing it is a fundamental right to have a gun but here we think only government officials should be armed in certain circumstances, anyone else armed are seen as criminals or up to no good.
It's hard to see any change with such an ingrained feature of US culture and incident like this will incease with opponents taking stances so far apart.
 
K.D.D.D.D.Soc said:
I think we in this country have a totally different view to guns and their use from the US, a great number of their population have been raised believing it is a fundamental right to have a gun but here we think only government officials should be armed in certain circumstances, anyone else armed are seen as criminals or up to no good.
It's hard to see any change with such an ingrained feature of US culture and incident like this will incease with opponents taking stances so far apart.
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That’s the funny thing about this. The arguements many are making in this thread about are the same as the right wing NRA gun nuts who beleive they are the legal right to take a gun anywhere they go and it only becomes a problem if that start actively trying to shoot people.
 
thfcsteff said:
Out of interest, are you posting in the hopes of having a conversation or are you simply looking to say you believe you're right? And take this as a genuine question, not goading. I purposely avoid posting in political threads these days for various reasons, but I do read everything posted and I wanted to specifically ask you this question.
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A genuine conversation. I am new to this forum and this is the only non Spurs related thread I have contributed to.

I’m not a Trump supporter and I would not have voted for him if I was able. But I also reject the idea that everything is his fault and he is always in the wrong. But if that’s what this thread is I probably won’t bother posting in it that much.
 
robp135 said:
A genuine conversation. I am new to this forum and this is the only non Spurs related thread I have contributed to.

I’m not a Trump supporter and I would not have voted for him if I was able. But I also reject the idea that everything is his fault and he is always in the wrong. But if that’s what this thread is I probably won’t bother posting in it that much.
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I have my own reasons for not posting very much at all in here or the other political forums. I would say that of the many online outlets, I think this is overall a really decent one for balanced conversation (i.e. it can be found) but will say that overall, I find that all online outlets are (at this point) so traumatized, triggered and to a certain extent polarized, that true conversation is nearly impossible to find online. Again, this is the best I know of, and there are some wonderful postees on here with whom I hope you can find a decent exchange.

The only thing I'll say about the current global era is that it has not happened simply as a consequence of the previous four or five years IMO; I believe this has been brewing for some time. Good luck.
 
thfcsteff said:
I have my own reasons for not posting very much at all in here or the other political forums. I would say that of the many online outlets, I think this is overall a really decent one for balanced conversation (i.e. it can be found) but will say that overall, I find that all online outlets are (at this point) so traumatized, triggered and to a certain extent polarized, that true conversation is nearly impossible to find online. Again, this is the best I know of, and there are some wonderful postees on here with whom I hope you can find a decent exchange.

The only thing I'll say about the current global era is that it has not happened simply as a consequence of the previous four or five years IMO; I believe this has been brewing for some time. Good luck.
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Thanks. Hope to bring a different perspective as someone that has lived in the US for half my life now (grew up in Enfield and move to US at 19). I often see Brits take a view on US politics with just an assumption the cultures are the same because of the shared language and a lot of media and it’s just not the case.

As I said I am not a Trump support and would not have voted for him. But I watched a bit of BBC Question Time this wee and saw an audience member with absolutely no hint of sarcasm suggest that American citizens are treated worse from a human rights perspective than Chinese people and it’s just hilarious how narrow minded people have become due to their hatred of Trump.
 
Mikey10 said:
TROLL ALERT!
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Want to explain that comment as I'm obviously to thick to understand.

You see I think you are accusing me of being a troll purely because I have said something you don't like.

But let's actually debate what I said.

The were no large scale protests when Biden and Obama deported illegal migrants.

That's a fair description of what's happening. So just accusing someone of being a troll as way of trying to silence someone is the last refuge of the desperate.

The fact that the most violent protesting has come in though not exclusive to democrat areas leads to it an obvious link it to it being politically motivated.
 
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