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American politics

Rafa87 said:
That’s fine you’re right I dont fully understand the gun laws, but to me to say he “interefered with them” is just a cheap way of finding an offence he committed.

When you watch that video, he shouts a it in protest of the way in which they are treating another person, these ICE blokes then go and start shoving another person and he steps in to help them. If that gets put up that he’s causing an offence and “interfering with them” then I’m sorry, but that’s incredible cowardice from the legal system in America and basically covering up.

That just means the minute someone goes to a protest they commit an offence as there will always be a “they shouted” “they swore” “they called me a mean name”.

Regardless, I’ll take your word on it as you are obviously more clued up on American gun laws than me. However, to me, that’s nothing other than a trigger happy ICE agent who murdered that man because he wanted to shoot someone, and took a cheap opportunity to do so. There was no threat, any half decent risk assessment would have told him that when he has that many people around him. The man died because those agents WANTED to kill him, not because he was a threat or committing a serious offence. I know murder requires the intent as well, but honestly at this point, I think these ICE agents go out looking for any reason available. They’re playing soldiers.
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I agree with you here except for a few key points.

1. It as not ICE agents he interacted with. It was Border Agents, who again were only present because the police were told to stand down.
2. You miss that he then went on to resist arrest while carrying a firearm.
3. Even if it was as you say, him just helping the lady who was pushed, that’s still interfering with law enforcement. He has absolutely no clue why they are interacting. And when you do that while carrying a firearm, even if it’s permitted and concealed, the law treats the presence of a firearm as dramatically increasing risk and harm and his 2nd amendment rights are waived.

None of this means the agent should not be found guilty of murder. But let’s also not pretend that Alex Pretti was this guy thay was out for a jog and stumbled his way into this situation and got shot for doing a good deed.
 
robp135 said:
Sure. How would you go about deporting illegal immigrants from the United States?
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Strategically, by identifying them and working on intel, not going round and approaching anyone that "Looks" foreign in the street on the off chance you might catch someone ad hoc.
 
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MartyFunkhouser said:
Strategically, by identifying them and working on intel, not going round and approaching anyone that "Looks" foreign in the street on the off chance you might catch someone ad hoc
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And in those instances, especially in certain cities like Minnesota, when that happens they are being impeded by the public. Blocking their cars, honking horns to warn people to run. How should that be dealt with?

Specially in the case of Renee Good it was part of a broader immigration enforcement mission arresting immigrants with criminal violations that had been identified and located.
 
robp135 said:
And in those instances, especially in certain cities like Minnesota, when that happens they are being impeded by the public. Blocking their cars, honking horns to warn people to run. How should that be dealt with?

Specially in the case of Renee Good it was part of a broader immigration enforcement mission arresting immigrants with criminal violations that had been identified and located.
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But its not, the discourse and protests is in response to the randomness of their operations and the failures and mistakes. The street and spot checks of people based on their perceived ethnicity, that's anything but strategic.

Its been widely said that ICE could have ignored Renee Good and carried on to their goals, they decided to stop and engage when at least 2 other vehicles and agents had ignored (goes back to being poorly trained)

I'm sorry to be blunt, but if you think any of what you see is well thought out and strategic then there is no helping you
 
MartyFunkhouser said:
But its not, the discourse and protests is in response to the randomness of their operations and the failures and mistakes. The street and spot checks of people based on their perceived ethnicity, that's anything but strategic.

Its been widely said that ICE could have ignored Renee Good and carried on to their goals, they decided to stop and engage when at least 2 other vehicles and agents had ignored (goes back to being poorly trained)

I'm sorry to be blunt, but if you think any of what you see is well thought out and strategic then there is no helping you
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It was also widely reported that ICE arrested a 5 year old and that turned out to be utter gonads.

Mass deportations was a mandate for the democratically elected US President. It was one of his most popular campaign promises. There are protests taking place in every city.

The only cites where there are violent interactions with ICE and where those protests become organized resistance actively preventing law enforcement from doing their job.
 
robp135 said:
It was also widely reported that ICE arrested a 5 year old and that turned out to be utter gonads.

Mass deportations was a mandate for the democratically elected US President. It was one of his most popular campaign promises. There are protests taking place in every city.

The only cites where there are violent interactions with ICE and where those protests become organized resistance actively preventing law enforcement from doing their job.
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There have also been a number of wrongful arrests, detentions and deportations

Its absolutely this, the profiling and the tactics taken which is causing the issues.

The US has deported illegals for decades, this kind of resistance hasn't been seen before BECAUSE this is the most militant and extreme in actions as has been seen, people are going to react to that and they are.
 
MartyFunkhouser said:
There have also been a number of wrongful arrests, detentions and deportations

Its absolutely this, the profiling and the tactics taken which is causing the issues.

The US has deported illegals for decades, this kind of resistance hasn't been seen before BECAUSE this is the most militant and extreme in actions as has been seen, people are going to react to that and they are.
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Not at a rate that was desired by the US public. This is all a consequence of the open border policy of the last Biden administration, who I would have voted for if I was able to by the way. But that’s what has caused the situation we are in.

The only US citizens to be deported are children that needed to remain with thier parents.
 
robp135 said:
Not at a rate that was desired by the US public. This is all a consequence of the open border policy of the last Biden administration, who I would have voted for if I was able to by the way. But that’s what has caused the situation we are in.

The only US citizens to be deported are children that needed to remain with thier parents.
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But the rate isnt the issue here, its the tactics being deployed, thats where the discourse comes from, along with the wrongful arrests and profiling
 
It is incumbent the state protects its innocent civilian citizens from the state. If that is not guaranteed then it is not a free place. It's fundamentally antithetical to everything America is supposed to stand for.
 
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