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American politics

thfcsteff said:
I am not a lawyer, but between the Gretchen Whitmer kidnapping plan, telling the proud boys to "stand by" and the way in which Parler users have made video mashups using parts of his speech to call for insurrection, violent action and civil war, I'd say there are exceptional grounds to illustrate how since November 8th especially, his rhetoric has been the direct catalyst. The Parler video was particularly damning, as it showed perfectly the CONTEXT with which these people are taking his words, and how this has been the case for some time.
We shall see.
I agree with those that say the 25th Amendment would be a mistake as it is harder to prove plus seems like it'd be being used as punitive measure. The impeachment is a slam dunk. I wonder if, once he's out off office and a private citizen, you will see some of those who were victims in that horror show suing him. I'd bet on it.
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thfcsteff said:
I am not a lawyer, but between the Gretchen Whitmer kidnapping plan, telling the proud boys to "stand by" and the way in which Parler users have made video mashups using parts of his speech to call for insurrection, violent action and civil war, I'd say there are exceptional grounds to illustrate how since November 8th especially, his rhetoric has been the direct catalyst. The Parler video was particularly damning, as it showed perfectly the CONTEXT with which these people are taking his words, and how this has been the case for some time.
We shall see.
I agree with those that say the 25th Amendment would be a mistake as it is harder to prove plus seems like it'd be being used as punitive measure. The impeachment is a slam dunk. I wonder if, once he's out off office and a private citizen, you will see some of those who were victims in that horror show suing him. I'd bet on it.
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Will have to wait to hear what the lawyer over at the Opening Arguments podcast says about it.

The way I use the word imminent might not be matched by what lawyers means, but to me imminent is pretty quick.

"Stand by" was a terrible thing to say to the Proud Boys, no doubt. But a call for imminent lawless action it is not.

Could definitely say that it's been a direct catalyst, but that doesn't mean it's unlawful to say I think.

Edit: I'd like to see him prosecuted for the things he's done where it's more obvious that he's broken laws. I'd like to see him impeached because there's no requirement there if having broken a law.
 
SteveAWOL said:
Unfortunately that viral tweet about all the benefits Trump would lose if impeached by Congress have been debunked...

https://www.factcheck.org/2021/01/viral-tweet-distorts-facts-on-consequences-of-impeachment/

https://twitter.com/x/status/1348688946507771905
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The ban from public office is a different thing to impeachment.

Impeachment needs Senate to hit a 2/3rds majority vote for it to stick.

The 14th Constitutional Amendment (I think?) or some such has a clause which allows a straight majority (51) to vote for banning anyone from holding public office. This can be done whether Impeachment is successful in the Senate or not.
 
DTA said:
Genuinely not aware of al jazeera's anti semitism. You have a link?
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They played a large part in the spread of the conspiracy theory that a load of Jews just didn't turn up for work in New York on 911.
DTA said:
Genuinely not aware of al jazeera's anti semitism. You have a link?
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The long-running accusation is that what Al Jazeera does in English language is milder and less confrontational, keeping the ant-Semitic and anti-Western content in Arabic.

I'm surprised you haven't heard this, it's the first thing that comes to mind for me when anyone mentions Al Jazeera. First link I found lists a few cases for example:
https://www.arabnews.com/node/1499786/media
 
thfcsteff said:
If you think he whipped them up for that one event then you're more naive than I thought. This is a 70 million plus market for him to plunder and abuse for years - $250 MILLION so far - come on Scara, keep up with the mad malevolent clamy muppet!
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The evidence so far is that it's going to cost him dearly.

There are clearly a radical group of nutjobs who somehow manage to reconcile a position of "Allegiance to the flag, Murica - fudge yeah" with one of attempting to destroy the very democracy it is founded on. But businesses, banks, other Republicans, etc. are currently showing that's not a contradiction they're willing to accept. They're flocking away from Trump and taking their money with them.

I don't doubt Trump was happy to lie about the election to whip them up into an angry mob that went and protested outside the Capitol. I don't doubt that he wants to play them for profit for the rest of what's left of his career. I can't believe that he wanted them to storm the Capitol as there's no end game where he even slightly benefits, let alone wins.
 
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scaramanga said:
The evidence so far is that it's going to cost him dearly.

There are clearly a radical group of nutjobs who somehow manage to reconcile a position of "Allegiance to the flag, Murica - fudge yeah" with one of attempting to destroy the very democracy it is founded on. But businesses, banks, other Republicans, etc. are currently showing that's not a contradiction they're willing to accept. They're flocking away from Trump and taking their money with them.

I don't doubt Trump was happy to lie about the election to whip them up into an angry mob that went and protested outside the Capitol. I don't doubt that he wants to play them for profit for the rest of what's left of his career. I can't believe that he wanted them to storm the Capitol as there's no end game where he even slightly benefits, let alone wins.
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Let's hope you're right.
I would suggest that anyone who managed to generate 250 million+ after LOSING an election, let alone whip up that, has a built in cash till. He will have to avoid legal issues, certainly not easy, but easier to play victim and cause chaos with millions behind you. Let's review this after the 20th; I believe more is sadly to come, especially as he has not backed down at all, in fact choosing to double-down instead.
 
thfcsteff said:
Let's hope you're right.
I would suggest that anyone who managed to generate 250 million+ after LOSING an election, let alone whip up that, has a built in cash till. He will have to avoid legal issues, certainly not easy, but easier to play victim and cause chaos with millions behind you. Let's review this after the 20th; I believe more is sadly to come, especially as he has not backed down at all, in fact choosing to double-down instead.
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This is what happens after the 20th:
https://openargs.com/oa455-trump-is-going-to-prison-in-georgia/
 
scaramanga said:
There are clearly a radical group of nutjobs who somehow manage to reconcile a position of "Allegiance to the flag, Murica - fudge yeah" with one of attempting to destroy the very democracy it is founded on. But businesses, banks, other Republicans, etc. are currently showing that's not a contradiction they're willing to accept. They're flocking away from Trump and taking their money with them.
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Yes the rats are leaving as is the money, and I think one reason among many is that this insurrection story runs deeper. McConnell is reportedly ready to convict (supposedly) and other senior GOP members are now in open conflict with the qanon side of the party. I'm thinking that there is intel that they have seen, McConnell certainly has being a member of the gang of 8, which is far far worse than the mob just got out of hand hot-take some are pushing. They are trying to get out ahead of it.
 
Rorschach said:
Yes the rats are leaving as is the money, and I think one reason among many is that this insurrection story runs deeper. McConnell is reportedly ready to convict (supposedly) and other senior GOP members are now in open conflict with the qanon side of the party. I'm thinking that there is intel that they have seen, McConnell certainly has being a member of the gang of 8, which is far far worse than the mob just got out of hand hot-take some are pushing. They are trying to get out ahead of it.
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If you use McConnell's previous actions as a measure of his current, it's probably just smart political choices.

He was right behind Trump when Trump was the party's best option, now he isn't. For all the terrible things McConnell is, a fool isn't one of them.
 
scaramanga said:
The evidence so far is that it's going to cost him dearly.

There are clearly a radical group of nutjobs who somehow manage to reconcile a position of "Allegiance to the flag, Murica - fudge yeah" with one of attempting to destroy the very democracy it is founded on. But businesses, banks, other Republicans, etc. are currently showing that's not a contradiction they're willing to accept. They're flocking away from Trump and taking their money with them.

I don't doubt Trump was happy to lie about the election to whip them up into an angry mob that went and protested outside the Capitol. I don't doubt that he wants to play them for profit for the rest of what's left of his career. I can't believe that he wanted them to storm the Capitol as there's no end game where he even slightly benefits, let alone wins.
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Big business obviously mostly responds when it makes financial sense to do so. I expect very little in terms of ethical decisions.

The fact that it took this much to make Republican politicians to not accept this "contradiction" should on it's own be seen as a disaster of judgment and/or principles.

I hope there will be consequences long term for them. If the lesson is that you can support authoritarians up to the point it goes wrong and then back away and suffer no consequences there really are no incentives to behave differently in the future.
 
scaramanga said:
If you use McConnell's previous actions as a measure of his current, it's probably just smart political choices.

He was right behind Trump when Trump was the party's best option, now he isn't. For all the terrible things McConnell is, a fool isn't one of them.
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I'm 100% certain that this is a political choice but the motivation to go against Trump, who will still largely control the base, must outweigh the risk of staying with him. A vote to convict is putting his own head in the crosshairs of some good old boy's high powered rifle. This is an unfolding story me thinks.
 
scaramanga said:
They played a large part in the spread of the conspiracy theory that a load of Jews just didn't turn up for work in New York on 911.

The long-running accusation is that what Al Jazeera does in English language is milder and less confrontational, keeping the ant-Semitic and anti-Western content in Arabic.

I'm surprised you haven't heard this, it's the first thing that comes to mind for me when anyone mentions Al Jazeera. First link I found lists a few cases for example:
https://www.arabnews.com/node/1499786/media
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I will look in to the 911 thing but the arab news article is likely to be tosh as its owned and controlled by Saudi who are in political conflict with Qatar. Mainly because Qatar are not towing the line in terms of hostility towards Iran and al jeezra have been a torn in their side in terms of exposing some of the many underhand dealings that epitomises the quite frankly awful and dangerous Saudi state including their support and funding of whabbi groups which are the main driver of Islamic extremism.

As for the Arab version of Al jezera being more extreme, I wouldnt know as I dont speak Arabic, but again if that message is coming from "Arab news" then I would view it with a huge amount of scepticism.

Does anyone here speak Arabic, and watch that version of Al jezera? Would anyone say that what arab news is reporting is in anyway factual?
 
DTA said:
I will look in to the 911 thing but the arab news article is likely to be tosh as its owned and controlled by Saudi who are in political conflict with Qatar. Mainly because Qatar are not towing the line in terms of hostility towards Iran and al jeezra have been a torn in their side in terms of exposing some of the many underhand dealings that epitomises the quite frankly awful and dangerous Saudi state including their support and funding of whabbi groups which are the main driver of Islamic extremism.

As for the Arab version of Al jezera being more extreme, I wouldnt know as I dont speak Arabic, but again if that message is coming from "Arab news" then I would view it with a huge amount of scepticism.

Does anyone here speak Arabic, and watch that version of Al jezera? Would anyone say that what arab news is reporting is in anyway factual?
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I absolutely won't listen to the opinion parts from there, but the statements of fact remain. Al Jazeera has had a few instances of this and ex employees (again, consider the sauce) do not seem to feel there's much being done to stop that culture.
 
scaramanga said:
I absolutely won't listen to the opinion parts from there, but the statements of fact remain. Al Jazeera has had a few instances of this and ex employees (again, consider the sauce) do not seem to feel there's much being done to stop that culture.
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From what I know Al Jazeera did originally push this story, although it seems to have originated with other news agencies first, but then retracted it. They have also been accused of anti-semitism because they take a pro-Palestinian stance when they are really anti-Israel and anti-Netanyahu. Would agree with DTA that Arab News is institutionally unreliable and basically a Saudi Pravda.
 
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