American politics

[scaramanga]

Please don't spread the inability to see a difference between (modern) socialism and communism.

There's a widespread inability to see a difference for a reason.

Sanders and his ilk are so far outside the Overton Window that there is no discernable difference between the two.

 

[scaramanga]

Do you think it's reasonable to expect any system to completely eradicate poverty?

There's a huge difference between a system that is good for most with some being unfortunate/unwilling and one that has extreme poverty for the many baked into its very core, like communism.

 

[r-u-s-x]

Do you think it's reasonable to expect any system to completely eradicate poverty?

There's a huge difference between a system that is good for most with some being unfortunate/unwilling and one that has extreme poverty for the many baked into its very core, like communism.

And there is a huge difference between what bernie sanders is proposing and the communist Eastern bloc.

 

[DTA]

There's a widespread inability to see a difference for a reason.

Sanders and his ilk are so far outside the Overton Window that there is no discernable difference between the two.

Come on dude. You are smart enough to know there is a very clear difference.

But it is worrying to think that you would promote the fact there isn't because people who are not that smart may actually believe you ... And work against their own interests

 

[scaramanga]

And there is a huge difference between what bernie sanders is proposing and the communist Eastern bloc.

I don't think there is if you take perspective into account. Sanders is so far left of what is economically sensible that from where we are, they look the same.

 

[scaramanga]

Come on dude. You are smart enough to know there is a very clear difference.

But it is worrying to think that you would promote the fact there isn't because people who are not that smart may actually believe you ... And work against their own interests

I understand that if you dig closely and study both you will find differences. Realistically, they're so far away from what is a viable solution that the difference is negligible.

The end result of both is the same - a need for someone like Thatcher and a couple of generations to repair the damage.

Take the same question to the far end of the political spectrum. Does it really make much difference to you and I which far right organisation is running the place? The results are really the same, even if their stated aims are very different.

 

[r-u-s-x]

I don't think there is if you take perspective into account. Sanders is so far left of what is economically sensible that from where we are, they look the same.

No they don't

 

[scaramanga]

No they don't

They both involve a bigger state, taking from the successful to distribute elsewhere, power in the hands of workers rather than those qualified to make decisions, a reduction in trade, a fudgewit's view on production of energy and GMOs, etc.

There's a lot of policy where I agree with Sanders. In pretty much every case where he is opposed to the religious conservatives, I agree fully with him. His social viewpoint is perfectly aligned with my own. However, his position on the economy is just fudged up.

 

[r-u-s-x]

That does not make it comparable to soviet Russia. Would still probably be further right than france

 

[the dza]

That does not make it comparable to soviet Russia. Would still probably be further right than france

Indeed -- Sanders is quite radical for American politics, but in the grand scheme of things, he is a centre-left politician. I don't think he has any policies that would be seen as radical or far-left in Western Europe. He'd provide some much needed sanity to the most powerful nation on Earth.

 

[braineclipse]

There's a widespread inability to see a difference for a reason.

Sanders and his ilk are so far outside the Overton Window that there is no discernable difference between the two.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum

If you want to use the popularity of a viewpoint to be the basis for judging if it's right or not you'll at least have to show me that it's more common than contrary viewpoints.

I always took you as someone with a more cynical view of people as idiots kind of guy.

What are the main tenants of communism in your opinion?

 

[Kandi1977]

My my my, that's pillow TV right there! Painful to watch. The Pocahontas comment is one thing, but he talks to those men like they're departs. Let me rephrase, he talks to those men like he's a retread.

He talks to them as if they're as departed as him.

 

[Kandi1977]

I don't think there is if you take perspective into account. Sanders is so far left of what is economically sensible that from where we are, they look the same.

The next logical step from appointing a communist as leader is that of becoming a communist state.

The photo is from East Germany and is a good example of extreme poverty - the only logical conclusion to communism.

Bernie Sanders is a fudging long way away from being a communist. I'd suggest that you read a little bit about communism so you know what it is before you use the word.
Sanders is far more conservative and to the right of current conservative (right) governments in Norway, Sweden and Denmark. Are they communists? Works pretty well there I'd say!

 

[Kandi1977]

They both involve a bigger state, taking from the successful to distribute elsewhere, power in the hands of workers rather than those qualified to make decisions, a reduction in trade, a fudgewit's view on production of energy and GMOs, etc.

There's a lot of policy where I agree with Sanders. In pretty much every case where he is opposed to the religious conservatives, I agree fully with him. His social viewpoint is perfectly aligned with my own. However, his position on the economy is just fudged up.

"power in the hands of workers rather than those qualified to make decisions"
WTF! tinkle off! How is Donald fudging Trump and his depart sons, or any other greedy white collar criminal more qualified?
That's disgraceful thing to say and a huge insult. You think you are elite and so much better than "normal" people. frankly, if you have any kind of decency, you should apologize.

 

[scaramanga]

"power in the hands of workers rather than those qualified to make decisions"
WTF! tinkle off! How is Donald fudging Trump and his retread sons, or any other greedy white collar criminal more qualified?
That's disgraceful thing to say and a huge insult. You think you are elite and so much better than "normal" people. frankly, if you have any kind of decency, you should apologize.

Why do you choose Trump as an example rather than the 99+% if business leaders who are there on merit? Because it serves your point to pick the exception?

There are a number of very good reasons why I pay someone else minimum wage to carry stuff around my factory and why I make the decisions. I would get bored of carrying stuff around in something less than ten minutes and those who I pay to carry stuff wouldn't have the first clue as to how to begin my job. I do what I do because I'm good at it, they do what they do for the same reasons.

What qualifies a person to be a "white collar criminal" in your eyes? You must consider them to be a reasonably common occurrence for them to be relevant to this discussion.

Oh, and I am better than "normal" people, significantly so. Not because of some kind of birth right or chance, simply because I am on any measure that matters to me.

 

[scaramanga]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum

If you want to use the popularity of a viewpoint to be the basis for judging if it's right or not you'll at least have to show me that it's more common than contrary viewpoints.

I always took you as someone with a more cynical view of people as idiots kind of guy.

That wasn't quite my point. I certainly don't think opinions are correct because they're popular, or that the populace are capable of even the most simple decisions.

My point is that, from the current average political opinion in the UK and the US the likes of Sanders/Corbyn are so far from the natural position of the Centre Right, they become indistinguishable from all other extreme left positions.

What are the main tenants of communism in your opinion?

From my post above - taking into account that whilst the aims of socialism and communism are marginally separated, the end result is pretty much the same in my eyes.

They both involve a bigger state, taking from the successful to distribute elsewhere, power in the hands of workers rather than those qualified to make decisions, a reduction in trade, a fudgewit's view on production of energy and GMOs, etc.

There's a lot of policy where I agree with Sanders. In pretty much every case where he is opposed to the religious conservatives, I agree fully with him. His social viewpoint is perfectly aligned with my own. However, his position on the economy is just fudged up.

I just realised that I missed off the lack of personal freedom and the inability to better one's lot through hard work and talent.

 

[Kandi1977]

Why do you choose Trump as an example rather than the 99+% if business leaders who are there on merit? Because it serves your point to pick the exception?

There are a number of very good reasons why I pay someone else minimum wage to carry stuff around my factory and why I make the decisions. I would get bored of carrying stuff around in something less than ten minutes and those who I pay to carry stuff wouldn't have the first clue as to how to begin my job. I do what I do because I'm good at it, they do what they do for the same reasons.

What qualifies a person to be a "white collar criminal" in your eyes? You must consider them to be a reasonably common occurrence for them to be relevant to this discussion.

Oh, and I am better than "normal" people, significantly so. Not because of some kind of birth right or chance, simply because I am on any measure that matters to me.

Because 99%+ of them aren't there on any sort of merit, they're there because they know other people with power. Some of them do ok, but 90% are fudging brick at it, and rely on other people to do the job.

 

[scaramanga]

Because 99%+ of them aren't there on any sort of merit, they're there because they know other people with power. Some of them do ok, but 90% are fudging brick at it, and rely on other people to do the job.

That doesn't sound like a particularly educated opinion.

I know it to be patently false because these are people I have regular dealings with all the time. Whether through my own business, at the IoD, at CIMA CPD events, industry gatherings, through events arranged by my banks or auditors, ect. I meet with these people a lot and with very, very few exceptions they are all very intelligent, qualified and capable.

I also employ quite a few people and see them daily. Of the few who ever express the belief that they could do the jobs of their superiors, every single one has been at the bottom end of the IQ range that we employ. Not one had even the first clue about how to approach the role they claimed to be able to perform. None of them could even have approached the role after the years of training and experience those in the roles have.

In my experience there's a clear inverse relationship between intelligence and the belief in one's ability to perform the role of one's superiors.

 

[Kandi1977]

That doesn't sound like a particularly educated opinion.

I know it to be patently false because these are people I have regular dealings with all the time. Whether through my own business, at the IoD, at CIMA CPD events, industry gatherings, through events arranged by my banks or auditors, ect. I meet with these people a lot and with very, very few exceptions they are all very intelligent, qualified and capable.

I also employ quite a few people and see them daily. Of the few who ever express the belief that they could do be jobs of their superiors, every single one has been at the bottom end of the IQ range that we employ. Not one had even the first clue about how to approach the role they claimed to be able to perform. None of them could even have approached the role after the years of training and experience those in the roles have.

In my experience there's a clear inverse relationship between intelligence and the belief in one's ability to perform the role of one's superiors.

You are beyond help.

 

[scaramanga]

You are beyond help.

You misspelled "Talking from authority" but don't worry, we all have the odd brain fart.