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American politics

wiziwig said:
Assad is winning , pushing back ISIS.
The Syrians understand that in the short term, he's their best hope.
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Assad is killing the opposition to his rule with Russian support. The rebels are being painted as being ISIS as cover.

If the Syrians understand he is their best hope, why are the fleeing in their millions? And where is the support for him amongst those who have fled?
 
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Are we on a loop with these,
"Something must be done about this evil dictator, he's killing innocent people while we stand back and watch. It's shameful"

Something gets done and
"That's shocking, how could you do that, you had no right to interfere."
 
glasgowspur said:
Are we on a loop with these,
"Something must be done about this evil dictator, he's killing innocent people while we stand back and watch. It's shameful"

Something gets done and
"That's shocking, how could you do that, you had no right to interfere."
Click to expand...

You could easily say the reverse about not doing something about an evil dictator. There are no easy options here and I do not see a way out of this without blood on our hands.
 
milo said:
You could easily say the reverse about not doing something about an evil dictator. There are no easy options here and I do not see a way out of this without blood on our hands.
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No easy options, exactly.
There's no way of telling how any of it is going to play out, it's all just guesses.
Intervene or not, no one knows what's for the best.
 
milo said:
It is beyond me why anyone would believe the Kremlin line on this (or anything else) over countless independent media outlets.
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Here's a conspiracy for you (got my tinfoil hat on and everything):

What if Trump is in tight with the Russians, like many have been saying...Russia sorts out a chemical attack for Assad and allows Trump to 'retaliate' by lobbing 50 odd missiles at an airbase that was apparently mostly empty, bar some planes there in need of repair. Didn't even destroy the runway.

Russia-gate goes away, Trump gets approval from world leaders, Assad and Syria go back to what they have been doing and grind away, eventually winning that war with no substantial intervention from America.

Too far fetched?
 
glasgowspur said:
No easy options, exactly.
There's no way of telling how any of it is going to play out, it's all just guesses.
Intervene or not, no one knows what's for the best.
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Absolutely. People have died as a result of us not intervening earlier. People would have died if we had. The Russians supporting Assad has resulted in the death of hundreds of thousands of people and the displacement of millions more. There can be no long term solution to Syria whilst Assad is still in power but I struggle to see how we can bring the Russians around to that position.
 
the dza said:
Here's a conspiracy for you (got my tinfoil hat on and everything):

What if Trump is in tight with the Russians, like many have been saying...Russia sorts out a chemical attack for Assad and allows Trump to 'retaliate' by lobbing 50 odd missiles at an airbase that was apparently mostly empty, bar some planes there in need of repair. Didn't even destroy the runway.

Russia-gate goes away, Trump gets approval from world leaders, Assad and Syria go back to what they have been doing and grind away, eventually winning that war with no substantial intervention from America.

Too far fetched?
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Like all conspiracy theories, too many people would have to know about it for it to remain a secret. And the president of the United States is an idiot who is incapable of having any thought go through his head without leaving his mouth first.
 
milo said:
Like all conspiracy theories, too many people would have to know about it for it to remain a secret. And the president of the United States is an idiot who is incapable of having any thought go through his head without leaving his mouth first.
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Trump wouldn't have to know anything really, it'd all be from Russia's end. They help Assad with the chemical weapons. It's already been in the news reports that the yanks gave Russia prior warning of the missiles they launched in retaliation, so as to ensure no Russian casualties. And that's it. No lizard people or anything, just two simple steps: step 1, chemical attack. step 2, America launches missiles at base where weapons came from. Then Russia-gate gets buried, business as usual.

Ok, tinfoil removed now.
 
the dza said:
Here's a conspiracy for you (got my tinfoil hat on and everything):

What if Trump is in tight with the Russians, like many have been saying...Russia sorts out a chemical attack for Assad and allows Trump to 'retaliate' by lobbing 50 odd missiles at an airbase that was apparently mostly empty, bar some planes there in need of repair. Didn't even destroy the runway.

Russia-gate goes away, Trump gets approval from world leaders, Assad and Syria go back to what they have been doing and grind away, eventually winning that war with no substantial intervention from America.

Too far fetched?
Click to expand...

milo said:
Like all conspiracy theories, too many people would have to know about it for it to remain a secret. And the president of the United States is an idiot who is incapable of having any thought go through his head without leaving his mouth first.
Click to expand...

the dza said:
Trump wouldn't have to know anything really, it'd all be from Russia's end. They help Assad with the chemical weapons. It's already been in the news reports that the yanks gave Russia prior warning of the missiles they launched in retaliation, so as to ensure no Russian casualties. And that's it. No lizard people or anything, just two simple steps: step 1, chemical attack. step 2, America launches missiles at base where weapons came from. Then Russia-gate gets buried, business as usual.

Ok, tinfoil removed now.
Click to expand...

And this would also be a good time to invoke Occam's razor
 
One thing I can't wrap my head around (nothing to do with the wine or medication either...yeah I know I shouldn't have opened that bottle) is why. Why would they risk that? Who decided that chemical weapons was the play at this juncture?
No matter who is really calling the shots a chemical attack was a roll of the dice in terms of response from the US. So what is the end game here? Maybe is is as simple as dza says. Distraction.
 
In all of this outrage re the chemical weapons being used lets not forget upwards of 300,000 innocent men women & children have been killed by conventional weapons in syria.
how many more have to die or be displaced before our so called leaders say enough is enough.
Americas dropping missiles on a airfield maybe stops assad using chemical weapons again but that's all it achieves
 
If Trump cared about the babies he wouldn't have a ban on refugees from Syria.

While I doubt there is much deliberation about Trump's decision, it does raise a number of interesting strategic possibilities. Under Obama, Putin was left to control events in Syria. He could prop up a friendly regime, needed for his naval base, and pretend he was helping the fight against ISIS. The US reaction was predictable. Now Trump's response means that Putin can no longer predict US policy. The use of chemical weapons is a bit of an embarrassment for Putin, as he brokered the deal to remove and destroy Assad's chemical weapons, so he might be more amenable to a deal where Assad is replaced with a person of his choice (e.g. from the military) and both Putin and Trump can declare themselves victors.

The other part of the story is China. The meeting with President Xi was never going to provide Trump with much gain as China held the cards. Striking Syria while dining with Xi is a bit of a slap in the face for Xi and overshadows the high profile meeting in the year of the next big party congress. He can't have failed to notice that the US took unilateral action against a country with WMD in the same week Trump made comments about China doing something about North Korea or he would. The Syria strikes may push Xi to do something about North Korea's nuclear programme.

This reminds me of an old comedy sketch about Reagan (I forget what show it was). They had a bumbling, feeble Reagan in a public meeting, confused about everything. Then as soon as the cameras and press leave the room he is transformed in to a vibrant, intelligent and perceptive president directing action.
 
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