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Roberto De Zerbi *OFFICIAL*

thfcsteff said:
We are going to need some leaders. That is the main issue for me. I see none. Only Gallagher when he plays (and remember, last weekend I was the one asking what exactly it was that he does!!!!)...

Who is going to bring the attitude? Who is going to make sure that when we concede a stupid goal we take it as an insult not an injury? Who is going to use a marginal offside goal as fuel for determination as opposed to shrinkage? Who is going to pump a fist for their teammate or gee them up when meeking about?

Who in our squad has that?
Because I think THAT is what we need the most.

I think where RDZ is flummoxed is in the lack of character/leadership personality. He would call it this group 'finding its culture'.
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I’ve been thinking the same, where are the leaders in the available squad?

Gallagher is the only name I could come up with too.
 
thfcsteff said:
We are going to need some leaders. That is the main issue for me. I see none. Only Gallagher when he plays (and remember, last weekend I was the one asking what exactly it was that he does!!!!)...

Who is going to bring the attitude? Who is going to make sure that when we concede a stupid goal we take it as an insult not an injury? Who is going to use a marginal offside goal as fuel for determination as opposed to shrinkage? Who is going to pump a fist for their teammate or gee them up when meeking about?

Who in our squad has that?
Because I think THAT is what we need the most.

I think where RDZ is flummoxed is in the lack of character/leadership personality. He would call it this group 'finding its culture'.
Click to expand...

He appointed Micky as the captain, which was a big mistake imo. The bloke was by his own admission a nervous wreck for most of the relegation fight, and he’s never been vocal on the pitch. A really odd choice.

The two we did have who showed real character and fight in the last couple of months - Pahlinha and Danso - were got rid of, both of which were strange decisions for me.
 
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Robspur12 said:
I still am scratching my head at that signing.
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I dont mind it
Experience and depth now on the side of the pitch we have struggled with
The one I’ve never got was JPVH… bad defensively, great with the ball
Vuskovic kinda fitted that ball but with possible better defensive nous and exceptional aerial ability
Cost us Danso too, although Tosin was good mid week
 
Bedfordspurs said:
I dont mind it
Experience and depth now on the side of the pitch we have struggled with
The one I’ve never got was JPVH… bad defensively, great with the ball
Vuskovic kinda fitted that ball but with possible better defensive nous and exceptional aerial ability
Cost us Danso too, although Tosin was good mid week
Click to expand...
IMHO Robertson was not needed and has not added the leadership we needed unlike Palhinha last season. We were well covered on that side and it meant Souza went out on loan. Regarding JPVH I agree. He’s a ball playing defender which is great but not at the expense of defending your own box. That what Danso was so good at. Getting rid of Danso (and vuskovic) are the biggest mistakes of the summer alongside not signing a number 9.
 
thfcsteff said:
We are going to need some leaders. That is the main issue for me. I see none. Only Gallagher when he plays (and remember, last weekend I was the one asking what exactly it was that he does!!!!)...

Who is going to bring the attitude? Who is going to make sure that when we concede a stupid goal we take it as an insult not an injury? Who is going to use a marginal offside goal as fuel for determination as opposed to shrinkage? Who is going to pump a fist for their teammate or gee them up when meeking about?

Who in our squad has that?
Because I think THAT is what we need the most.

I think where RDZ is flummoxed is in the lack of character/leadership personality. He would call it this group 'finding its culture'.
Click to expand...

Not having a go, but the whole leadership/mentality thing feels a bit contrived, it feels like a go to answer when nobody knows what the fudge is really going on.

Gallagher, Porro, Bentancur, Maddison aren't players I'd accuse of not being up for the fight
Bergvall & Gray also, young, inexperienced but will run themselves into the ground
Robertson is about as proven as they get
Tel & Kinsky have shown an ability to push through horrible adversity

I don't see this huge group of passive/not caring players, didn't see it under any of the previous managers either. Are they as heart on the sleeve as say Palhinha, Son, maybe even Romero (when he was up for it)? maybe not, but don't think it's a leader thing.

What I do see is players who give their all (most days) and it isn't working, the results aren't happening, and their belief has to be shaken, the sheer number of losses at home has to get to you, it gets to the fans.

And RDZ is trying to play complicated stuff, said it before, really worried this is the wrong era of PL for that. And if he doesn't get wins soon (and a few of them), no amount of leadership is going to stop the spiral.
 
Raziel said:
Not having a go, but the whole leadership/mentality thing feels a bit contrived, it feels like a go to answer when nobody knows what the fudge is really going on.
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OK, that's your opinion. I am simply going on what I'm seeing which is confidence sinking away as minutes in each game have gone on, and other than a couple of players here and there, no fire to resurrect/reinvigorate.


Raziel said:
Gallagher, Porro, Bentancur, Maddison aren't players I'd accuse of not being up for the fight
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It's not about 'not being up for a fight' it's about leading. Madders, bless him, is seeking fitness. Gallagher and Porro I named but neither have been regulars. Bentancur is absolutely up for it. That's it.


Raziel said:
Bergvall & Gray also, young, inexperienced but will run themselves into the ground
Click to expand...

I've explained Bergvall. Gray has bags of effort. I am not talking about effort or endeavor.


Raziel said:
Robertson is about as proven as they get
Tel & Kinsky have shown an ability to push through horrible adversity
Click to expand...

Tel has loads of fight and Kinsky is absolutely developing into a leader.


Raziel said:
I don't see this huge group of passive/not caring players,
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Where did I say that?
You have conflated the leadership/mentality thing with the 'not caring'. I did not say that at all.


Raziel said:
didn't see it under any of the previous managers either. Are they as heart on the sleeve as say Palhinha, Son, maybe even Romero (when he was up for it)? maybe not, but don't think it's a leader thing.
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Your opinion.
Of course, we look to be talking about two different things here.


Raziel said:
What I do see is players who give their all (most days) and it isn't working, the results aren't happening, and their belief has to be shaken, the sheer number of losses at home has to get to you, it gets to the fans.
Click to expand...

I agree.


Raziel said:
And RDZ is trying to play complicated stuff, said it before, really worried this is the wrong era of PL for that. And if he doesn't get wins soon (and a few of them), no amount of leadership is going to stop the spiral.
Click to expand...

Again, I am not sure if we are talking about 'characters' and 'leadership' here.

I do not doubt the effort and will of these players at all.
I never did.
When everyone bashed them during the Ange era I said the same.

I was pretty clear in what I meant and I stand by it. We will need more than Gallagher. Porro is certainly one of those 'energies', as is Bergvall to be fair (Brentford away not withstanding).

I'll say it again because frankly it tinkled me off...nowhere did I say anything about them 'not caring'.
Read what I said again without misdiagnosing my opinion with your contextual take of it.
If you disagree, fantastic and onwards.
 
thfcsteff said:
OK, that's your opinion. I am simply going on what I'm seeing which is confidence sinking away as minutes in each game have gone on, and other than a couple of players here and there, no fire to resurrect/reinvigorate.

I was pretty clear in what I meant and I stand by it. We will need more than Gallagher. Porro is certainly one of those 'energies', as is Bergvall to be fair (Brentford away not withstanding).

I'll say it again because frankly it tinkled me off...nowhere did I say anything about them 'not caring'.
Read what I said again without misdiagnosing my opinion with your contextual take of it.
If you disagree, fantastic and onwards.
Click to expand...

Take it easy mate, it's perspetive, and clearly I didn't explain my clearly enough.

When I hear leaders/mentality, I feel we are misdiagnosing, and placing our bets on something that won't solve the problem. Pick the best leader you can think of football wise, put them in this team (replacing a player of equal talent, so you are not rasing the skill level), I don't think said leader changes the results.

The reason our results were brick under Ange and Frank in the PL was tactics, and RDZ seems to be the same, his tempo is off, he plays the wrong person in the 10, doesn't adapt the style to accommodate said 10, tries to play Bentancur/Tonali and Fernandes in midfield, plays Solanke, list goes on.

Basically we come out the blocks at an unsustainable pace, the opposition does a "rope a dope" and rides it out, hits us on a counter and then gets to sit even deeper and play same tactic for another 60 minutes. Not sure how leadership changes that, or even a better striker (sure, we might have won a game because we have slightly better finishing, but the system as it is, seems too slow and open)
 
Robspur12 said:
IMHO Robertson was not needed and has not added the leadership we needed unlike Palhinha last season. We were well covered on that side and it meant Souza went out on loan. Regarding JPVH I agree. He’s a ball playing defender which is great but not at the expense of defending your own box. That what Danso was so good at. Getting rid of Danso (and vuskovic) are the biggest mistakes of the summer alongside not signing a number 9.
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The plan to go more football focussed is great buts it been built on sand defensively
I made my thought on JPVH on day 1
The fact it means we lost played who I rated too, doesn’t really help me, but it’s not my opinion that matters

I don’t think it’s easy to see what leadership is and isn’t happening on the pitch at the moment. Always feels to me like we’re a very quiet side
 
Bedfordspurs said:
I dont mind it
Experience and depth now on the side of the pitch we have struggled with
The one I’ve never got was JPVH… bad defensively, great with the ball
Vuskovic kinda fitted that ball but with possible better defensive nous and exceptional aerial ability
Cost us Danso too, although Tosin was good mid week
Click to expand...

The only issue with Robbo is he gets caught on the front foot, ala the Brentford goal. Wingers seem to get in behind him fairly easily now
 
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