Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

[ricky2tricky4city]

Sure, there will be examples of it. But the tone on this thread is consistently something else - can appreciate with some of the subject matters things are going to get heated at times, but still. Anyway, nothing I say is going to change anything, but do agree with Finney on this one.

Some very good points get shouted down/ridiculed easily on this thread which is a shame. Enjoy reading a lot of the discussion you and others have on here nonetheless....

It's the culture wars, innit.

 

[thfcsteff]

Let me introduce to you the concept of a forum where people are allowed to be offensive to each other

It would be great if people looked to be better than what they're allowed to be mate.

 

[LutonSpurs]

I'm not going to highlight individual posts and posters for this, not that it would be that difficult. I agree with Finney - if you don't that's cool, no biggie ....

Fair enough. I was just looking to learn

It would be great if people looked to be better than what they're allowed to be mate.

People are more offended at being called a bellend than being accused of bigotry. But OK I'll hear you big bro

 

[LutonSpurs]

I did years of being nice when I was baited. Kind of had enough. But if you find me calling you names here and there unpalatable then tell me. I won't.

 

[Silly McSilly Face]

Making rich people pay some tax? Focusing on society and community, rather than fluffing corporate oligarchs? The terror!

Rich people pay more tax than anyone else, quick google, 2023 to 2024 tax year:

Income tax revenue:
- top 1% of earners pay c. 30% of all income tax, a percentage that is at its highest level in 20 years.
- top 10% of earners pay c. 60% of all income tax.
- the top 0.1% of earners pay more income tax than the bottom 50% of earners combined.

Fairness:
The top 1% share of total income is c. 13% but they pay 30% of all income tax.

Those earning over £200k a year or holding over £2 million in assets paid 25% of all UK tax revenue from personal taxes (including income tax).

Moving on to discuss the green's wealth tax policies, wealth taxes are almost always bad and never achieve what they set out to achieve. Many countries that implemented them have withdrawn them.

In terms of the Green's proposed tax of 1% on all assets above £10 million, to see how much the devil would be in the detail of this policy and how potentially unworkable it would be, i will just discuss the issue of how you'd deal with shares in a limited company:

I am Mr A. I have set up a new business using inheritance of £100k and a bank loan of another £100k.

I incorporate a limited company, A Limited, which issue to me 100 ordinary shares with a fully paid up value of £1 a share.

After a number of years the business has taken off. I am managing to pay myself a director's salary of £100K a year and dividends of £50k a year. I employ 15 people full time.

I receive an offer from a large business in my sector to buy the business for £20 million. I reject the offer because i want to continue growing the business and i get my own valuation done that values the business at £30 million. My ownership of the business still manifests itself as 100 £1 ordinary shares.

How are you treating Mr A's ownership of A Limited for the purposes of this wealth tax?

If it is wealth of £100 then the wealth tax is completely worthless and will easily be avoided.

If it is £30 million, then you are asking Mr A to find £300K when he only earns £150K. Even if he scrapes the money together HMRC will be back for another £300K the next year.

You have totally disincentivised business and growth...

 

[thfcsteff]

People are more offended at being called a bellend than being accused of bigotry. But OK I'll hear you big bro

Oh I get your point there for sure mate, and equally think the initial point you made was sadly accurate. I just wish the world would strive for better.
I am old-fashioned in that sense; I still send texts with 'hi hope all is well', 5 words most people consider absolutely unnecessary in a text LOL!
Put it this way, when Roy Keane said 'no' is a sentence, it blew my mind hahahaha...

 

[thfcsteff]

I did years of being nice when I was baited. Kind of had enough. But if you find me calling you names here and there unpalatable then tell me. I won't.

I know you've copped it too many times. And absolutely, I get that you're reaching a limit with regards to tolerance.

On a general point I was saying it is a shame that we are here. As you know I avoided this specific area of the forum for a long time because discussion was not happening. It was baiting and reaffirmation of set positions.
I dipped back in and am thinking it might be time to dip back out again. @ricky2tricky4city offered some good advice my way earlier that got me thinking.
Stay strong my friend, stay strong. And yeah, wherever possible, take the lift to the upper floors

 

[LutonSpurs]

I know you've copped it too many times. And absolutely, I get that you're reaching a limit with regards to tolerance.

On a general point I was saying it is a shame that we are here. As you know I avoided this specific area of the forum for a long time because discussion was not happening. It was baiting and reaffirmation of set positions.
I dipped back in and am thinking it might be time to dip back out again. @ricky2tricky4city offered some good advice my way earlier that got me thinking.
Stay strong my friend, stay strong. And yeah, wherever possible, take the lift to the upper floors

Appreciated.

 

[Glenda's Legs]

Fair enough, the kicks to the head seemed excessive to me no more no less, granted I havent been in that scenario.

Leaving aside the continued kicks to the head, I still question how kicking someone in their body and standing on their back (on their rucksack) is the wisest course of action when you believe the person might be concealing an explosive device (as Mark Rowley explicitly said was the case here).
But it seems that’s accepted practice.

 

[Silly McSilly Face]

Put Capital Gains on the same rate as Income Tax

Merge NI into Income Tax

Replace Council Tax and Business Rates with a Land Value Tax

And Rent Caps

Combined that would shift the tax burden away from worker and onto the parasite class

The capital gains tax is a tax you need to be really careful with, as it is a tax on positive investment outcomes and investment is what you need to keep happening for the economy to function.

Its a tax that is part of a whole environment where you are essentially trying to remain competitive internationally. Decisions such aa where to base your European headquarters, which global stock market should i list on...which stocks should i invest in...these decisions are all impacted by things like the capital gains tax rate.

Income is more guaranteed, whereas capital gains are often punts that have worked out. They are returns on sometimes risky investments and for every gain there will also be losses. The tax is set lower comparatively to reflect that and no to disincentivise investing.

Uk companies raise money by issuing stocks, and other assets to market for investors to purchase. If they are able to do so less and less because investors are going elsewhere to other markets in other countries as the conditions are unfavourable in the UK then you are going to get a diminishing economy or even a crash.

On business rates and council tax, these are local authority taxes that raise money for local services. There are national land taxes e.g. SDLT for land and property transactions.