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Archie Gray

Bullet said:
I didn't realise Gray had started 4 out of 5... Resmin is not wrong.
Gray played with Bentancur vs PSG, with Palhinha vs Fulham, only got 5 minutes vs Newcash (Sarr started with Bentancur), played with Bentancur vs Brentford and with Palhinha tonight.

He's so good and so young and so fit, what an excellent purchase that was.
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The way I've seen it in the PSG game it was more of a diamond with Gray as the most advanced. Against Fulham it was Palhinha anchoring with Gray and Bergvall box to box. Brentford and Slavia being the first games in some time where he's started as a more clearly defined deep midfielder.

Obviously your point seems more about game time and not disagreeing. He is getting that game time and he is really good. I really hope him playing quite a lot, but also him playing clearly in a deeper role continues. Him getting subbed yesterday was to me hopefully because he'll be starting in a similar role come the weekend. He can play well in other roles too, no doubt. But that to me is where we get the most out of him now.
 
i love watching Gray play - he has a quick mind and has the urgency to release the ball fast, and it all comes off so effortlessly.

i think he had a near perfect passing game but I would like to see him take more risks. still young i know !

braineclipse said:
Yeah Bergvall is way more risky on the ball than Bergvall. Though I also think Bergvall is better a bit deeper and showed last season what he can do in a role like that.

But Gray is up there as one of our players with the most control and composure on the ball in tight areas and in terms of then also doing useful things with the ball in those situations. He also seems to have a good awareness defensively.
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metalgear said:
i love watching Gray play - he has a quick mind and has the urgency to release the ball fast, and it all comes off so effortlessly.

i think he had a near perfect passing game but I would like to see him take more risks. still young i know !
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Great close control too and ability to get out of tight spaces with quick feet.

Perhaps sometimes he could take more risk. Personally I'd like to see us use him more, give him the ball even more rather than he himself taking more risk.
 
thfcsteff said:
he has a maturity and selflessness in that regard that is outstanding. I wonder if he might make a late bid for the World Cup squad?
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The irony of course is that he pretty much had old man Hendo in his pocket for a lot of this game. Problem is that Hendo has been the unofficial captain of England for a very long time. Kane knows who's in charge when they play together. Hendo's been the best captain around for a decade or so.

Tuchel has it good. He has Rice, Anderson, Wharton, Mainoo and O'Reilly. He also has attacking midfielder Bellingham, Rogers, Foden etc and will struggle to include them all. Gray will probably have to bide his time.
 
El Dante said:
I think he could. He can play and cover multiple positions which is invaluable. So if he performs well and gets called up in the next International break then he has a good chance.
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I suppose -in fairness- we will need to see him as a regular starter for us before that could become a possibility. It just seems that he has a unique mentality I do not see in any other talent of his age, including a temperament which is frankly unbelievable!
 
El Dante said:
I think he could. He can play and cover multiple positions which is invaluable. So if he performs well and gets called up in the next International break then he has a good chance.
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Should've played for that other lot down the road, and he'd be in the squad in an instant. Walcott mrk II.
 
thfcsteff said:
I suppose -in fairness- we will need to see him as a regular starter for us before that could become a possibility. It just seems that he has a unique mentality I do not see in any other talent of his age, including a temperament which is frankly unbelievable!
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I don't actually think he's playing well enough to make the England squad. He's done alright so far, very good against Brentford, I felt pretty anonymous versus Slavia. He would need a consistent period of playing at a higher level than he's shown at the moment to really even get into England contention.

Next summer's tournament is going to come too soon in terms of his developing. He might be a serious option at some point next season if he can achieve that higher performance and consistently.
 
Bishop said:
I don't actually think he's playing well enough to make the England squad. He's done alright so far, very good against Brentford, I felt pretty anonymous versus Slavia. He would need a consistent period of playing at a higher level than he's shown at the moment to really even get into England contention.

Next summer's tournament is going to come too soon in terms of his developing. He might be a serious option at some point next season if he can achieve that higher performance and consistently.
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I didn't say 'right now', I suggested that if he continues his trajectory and establishes himself in the first eleven, then it is possibly on the cards.

Anonymous v Slavia? That's part of the point, he's doing all the stuff others haven't been in terms of intelligent play and positioning for the team and not necessarily for himself. I don't disagree that next summer might well be one too soon though; be interesting to see. There's usually one late surprise.
 
thfcsteff said:
he has a maturity and selflessness in that regard that is outstanding. I wonder if he might make a late bid for the World Cup squad?
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Absolutely. And discipline.

He looks experienced way beyond his years, but also way beyond his actual experience. Said this before, but with a few exceptions those deep midfielders tend to develop a bit later.
thfcsteff said:
I suppose -in fairness- we will need to see him as a regular starter for us before that could become a possibility. It just seems that he has a unique mentality I do not see in any other talent of his age, including a temperament which is frankly unbelievable!
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He would have to become a regular starter in bigger games first, and do really well in them. If he can do that he could have a chance, but the competition is tough.

For me I hope he's given the chance for us to proce himself in bigger games to over the season. He's had not so good games in the past sure, but he's consistently risen to every challenge put ahead of him. He's taken to rather challenging situations (like playing CB and FB in an injury plagued struggling side) with relative ease.

Our better performances in the last couple of games isn't only because of him of course, but he's come in to a deeper role in a team that really struggled with ball progression and press resistance and immediately done well.

Until/unless he actually looks out of his depths at some point I won't stop believing that he'll rise to the next challenge put in front of him too.
 
thfcsteff said:
I didn't say 'right now', I suggested that if he continues his trajectory and establishes himself in the first eleven, then it is possibly on the cards.

Anonymous v Slavia? That's part of the point, he's doing all the stuff others haven't been in terms of intelligent play and positioning for the team and not necessarily for himself. I don't disagree that next summer might well be one too soon though; be interesting to see. There's usually one late surprise.
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I agree he does some of the things that an 8 should actually do but we shouldn't confuse someone doing things that no one else does with them doing them to an elite level (not saying you are yet). Gray is showing loads of potential and he fits well but a lot of that is simply because we don't really have an alternative 8 who is both comfortable in a deeper space and also progressive in his passing (Bergvall and Sarr to a lesser extent are line breakers rather than passers). Gray can and will play the short game, keep his position, then move into a support role etc he's got the key ingredients not doubt.



However I was at the Slavia game and me and my friend watch him intently. In the first half he seemed lost, positionally he wasn't sure where to position himself it's a large part of the reason he had so few touches in the 1st half because whenever we had the ball he tended to be in a dead space ie. He wasn't somewhere where a pass to him opened the game or was a better option. In the 2nd half he spaced himself better and made a much bigger impact even just with the simple things in terms of spacing and the options his positioning made possible.
 
Bishop said:
However I was at the Slavia game and me and my friend watch him intently. In the first half he seemed lost, positionally he wasn't sure where to position himself it's a large part of the reason he had so few touches in the 1st half because whenever we had the ball he tended to be in a dead space ie. He wasn't somewhere where a pass to him opened the game or was a better option. In the 2nd half he spaced himself better and made a much bigger impact even just with the simple things in terms of spacing and the options his positioning made possible.
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this is what happens to anyone playing alongside palhinha. he is a bit obsessed with tackling - all good when you have to nail down playmakers, but can get easily dragged out of position against a team using the full length and width of the pitch
 
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