Rodrigo Bentancur

[harr1984]

My memory is hazy, but as I recall he turned and beat the first press, looked up and no one was available and got caught with the follow up press.
Our lack of movement is criminal and it has been for years, over multiple managers and multiple squads.

You're probably talking about another time, as I know he lost the ball more than once. Here is the example I'm referring to, receiving the ball with his back to goal and a couple of players coming to him but instead of playing a simple pass he tries to dribble around them and loses it putting us in trouble:


PS agree about the lack of movement in general....

 

[harr1984]

His first instinct is to dribble, hes not a pass first player. I kind of think him in CM isn't going to solve the issues. Yes he will drive with it, and at times that's going to open up fantastic situations but I don't think he helps the speed of the ball movement or the speed of its rotation because he's not an expansive passer. Maybe given the role he will add that to his game but for the moment its not his strength.

I'd go for Gray or Sarr right now if we just can't get Bentancur to turn back time and turn back into the mini metronome.

He should be doing what he does well further up the pitch, I don't want to see him receiving the ball as deep as he does at times. As you've said he's not a passer, really think Gray is a better option on these types of positions and as I've said previously Sarr should be playing anyway....

 

[braineclipse]

Bergvall lost the ball because he had no one to release it to.
It's a similar discussion to the kulu holding onto the ball too long from the last couple of seasons, they are progressive players, neither of them will just endlessly pass it backward.
We need to get players around them and moving.

Yes and no imo.

Maddison for example very rarely gives the ball away in that kind of situation while managing to be progressive.

Kulusevski and Bergvall are higher risk. But all of them would benefit from having more progressive passing options.

 

[glasgowspur]

You're probably talking about another time, as I know he lost the ball more than once. Here is the example I'm referring to, receiving the ball with his back to goal and a couple of players coming to him but instead of playing a simple pass he tries to dribble around them and loses it putting us in trouble:
View attachment 20670

PS agree about the lack of movement in general....

Yes, it was at the other end.

 

[braineclipse]

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As Nathan Clark points out small sample size. Also a lot of differences from last season to this season.

But still. Strengthens my view that this is Bentancur playing as instructed.

 

[harr1984]

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As Nathan Clark points out small sample size. Also a lot of differences from last season to this season.

But still. Strengthens my view that this is Bentancur playing as instructed.

Any player that is consistently picked is clearly playing as instructed and it just backs up the eye test as to what we are trying to do. Like you, this style isn't for me however I'd like to think Frank isn't going anywhere anytime soon therefore the current issues/areas to work on are our wingers:

It's clear that it's all about getting it out wide and chucking the ball into the box. Therefore the productivity of our wingers has to improve. I agree that having Solanke in the box will help, but it's not like our forwards have been missing a bucket load of chances - all in all our creation from out wide has been poor.

Kudus who is clearly our best winger has 1 goal and 4 assists in 11 games, that's hardly great. He is on many occasions being double marked therefore Frank should be looking at exploiting the space we have elsewhere when the focus of the opposition is clearly on stopping Kudus. But at the same time Kudus needs to be better in his decision making of what to do with the ball in the final third knowing that he is usually double marked.

On the other side Odobert is showing some skill, but very little end product. Hopefully and I'm sure he is, Frank is working on improving Odobert in that area. But as I think @thfcsteff has said previously for this to work it really needs a quality left winger to get on board. Who on earth are we expecting to score our goals right now? Johnson for all his limitations papered over the cracks last season, our attackers still just are not producing and as much as we hope Frank improves the likes of Kudus, Odobert, Tel and whoever else I can't help but feel we need more significant investment for this to work....

 

[Bishop]

Any player that is consistently picked is clearly playing as instructed and it just backs up the eye test as to what we are trying to do. Like you, this style isn't for me however I'd like to think Frank isn't going anywhere anytime soon therefore the current issues/areas to work on are our wingers:

It's clear that it's all about getting it out wide and chucking the ball into the box. Therefore the productivity of our wingers has to improve. I agree that having Solanke in the box will help, but it's not like our forwards have been missing a bucket load of chances - all in all our creation from out wide has been poor.

Kudus who is clearly our best winger has 1 goal and 4 assists in 11 games, that's hardly great. He is on many occasions being double marked therefore Frank should be looking at exploiting the space we have elsewhere when the focus of the opposition is clearly on stopping Kudus. But at the same time Kudus needs to be better in his decision making of what to do with the ball in the final third knowing that he is usually double marked.

On the other side Odobert is showing some skill, but very little end product. Hopefully and I'm sure he is, Frank is working on improving Odobert in that area. But as I think @thfcsteff has said previously for this to work it really needs a quality left winger to get on board. Who on earth are we expecting to score our goals right now? Johnson for all his limitations papered over the cracks last season, our attackers still just are not producing and as much as we hope Frank improves the likes of Kudus, Odobert, Tel and whoever else I can't help but feel we need more significant investment for this to work....

You're hitting the tickle my balls with a feather. Frankly our attackers are mediocre and there's this inbuilt need to be positive that stops so many just seeing the truth. None of this is new, we had the exact same problems last season but so many are blinded but really simple things and that need to be blindly positive.

Frank can improve players but he's not a magician. Far too much is being expected in terms of development improvement. We actually need to sign better.

 

[Stiff_Swede]

Best 40 min from Bentancur in a long time! Looks on it today and is more agressive!

 

[thfcsteff]

You're hitting the tickle my balls with a feather. Frankly our attackers are mediocre and there's this inbuilt need to be positive that stops so many just seeing the truth. None of this is new, we had the exact same problems last season but so many are blinded but really simple things and that need to be blindly positive.

Frank can improve players but he's not a magician. Far too much is being expected in terms of development improvement. We actually need to sign better.

NO-ONE is 'blinded' to that. I think most of us (well, I'll speak for myself) are hoping the likes of Tel can really kick on (Odobert too but I fear he won't). It is unfair to judge Johnson currently IMO. Kudus is very good however he cannot be the only one. But the facts are that unless we play football using the middle of the pitch (like Bergvall did today for our third) then we are reliant on crosses. And we have no-one on the left who is consistent, plus no CF fit who can do anything with them. And we can all see that. We should've signed Semenyo in the summer; Muani is tough to judge because he has not been fit but I think he will prove very useful...

 

[Bishop]

NO-ONE is 'blinded' to that. I think most of us (well, I'll speak for myself) are hoping the likes of Tel can really kick on (Odobert too but I fear he won't). It is unfair to judge Johnson currently IMO. Kudus is very good however he cannot be the only one. But the facts are that unless we play football using the middle of the pitch (like Bergvall did today for our third) then we are reliant on crosses. And we have no-one on the left who is consistent, plus no CF fit who can do anything with them. And we can all see that. We should've signed Semenyo in the summer; Muani is tough to judge because he has not been fit but I think he will prove very useful...

Bro I've been saying it's been mediocre for nearly 3 years and all I ever got was push back. So yes for me people have been blind to this truth. And why can't we judge Johnson right now? This is his 3rd season here, you don't think you have a good understanding of the player that he is at this point?

I do get the hopes regarding improving players, I'm the reverse of you. I think Odobert has more potential than Tel, although i'm not especially confident regarding either of them but time will tell with where they end up.

 

[thfcsteff]

Bro I've been saying it's been mediocre for nearly 3 years and all I ever got was push back. So yes for me people have been blind to this truth. And why can't we judge Johnson right now? This is his 3rd season here, you don't think you have a good understanding of the player that he is at this point?

I do get the hopes regarding improving players, I'm the reverse of you. I think Odobert has more potential than Tel, although i'm not especially confident regarding either of them but time will tell with where they end up.

The player he is does not reflect the player we need him to be in our system. Third season and hardly playing. Top scorer last season and scored plenty season before. I have been critical of his abiity to impose himself in the past personally, but generally, he scores goals because he ends up in the right positions.

Indeed, we will see who ends up better, hopefully both ascend to heights.

Honestly, if we're going to evaluate relative mediocrity in the sense you do wind that dial back to 2018/2019 because it was the last time we were special. Since then we have absolutely flogged the coatails of Kane and Son (well, managers have decided to build teams around serving them - and they have both delivered)...

 

[glasgowspur]

Bro I've been saying it's been mediocre for nearly 3 years and all I ever got was push back. So yes for me people have been blind to this truth. And why can't we judge Johnson right now? This is his 3rd season here, you don't think you have a good understanding of the player that he is at this point?

I do get the hopes regarding improving players, I'm the reverse of you. I think Odobert has more potential than Tel, although i'm not especially confident regarding either of them but time will tell with where they end up.

Johnson was in position score two goals today if vdv or Sarr hadn't beaten him to it.
He also did well helping out against their winger.