OMT: Spurs v Chelsea Thursday, 8pm at Stamford Bridge

[Mikey10]

The system isn’t why the players fudge around with it when they need to get it forward
It’s the polar opposite

He’s had two years. If they’re not following instructions, or are incapable of doing so, they should have been out the door or on the bench.

 

[Silly McSilly Face]

So why do we have no organisation, no solid defensive foundation, no structure, no plan even going forward? We look a shambles defensively every friggin game no matter who the players. You’re seriously telling me that’s not on the manager and it’s purely the players making mistakes and lack of leadership?

I've said before that the reason our players look so poor is often because they are too often caught in positions we clearly don't train on so basically they're always thinking about what the best thing to do is rather than instinctively following stuff drilled into them day in and day out on the training pitch. You see it constantly. The encapsulation of this was two of our players literally running into each other trying to run onto the ball to take a shot. Shouldn't be in each other's zones like that in a well drilled team and likewise we too often see opposition players left in acres of space as our defenders are second guessing whether to hold or push up etc so what happens is one does one thing and the other does the other and you end up with a massive gaping hole where the opposition just run through on goal almost surprised by what's happened as per minute 1 in the cup game v Villa which was another "encapsulation" moment of everything that is wrong with the current coaching regime.

 

[Glenda's Legs]

From this morning's press conference and Football London's report

Ange's mistake on celebrating the goal​

I get that is the main talking point after last night, which is kind of consistent as people tend to focus on the internals of Tottenham rather than the externals. I made a mistake last night in that I celebrated a goal. I purposely, I think since VAR came in up in Scotland and in the first game there was four or five incidents and we were standing around, I made a conscience decision that I'm not going to really celebrate goals as there's no point as you have to wait for everything to get checked off.
Last night I felt we needed something and getting that goal which was a cracking goal by Pape but the supporters obviously weren't happy with my decision which is fine. My response was to celebrate and to get them to make some noise and get behind the team. I thought it was a real momentum shifter in that moment because we did finish stronger. I guess my mistake was celebrating a goal that VAR has defeated me again and I won't be doing that again.

I think he is seriously deluded.

 

[Muttley]

I've said before that the reason our players look so poor is often because they are too often caught in positions we clearly don't train on so basically they're always thinking about what the best thing to do is rather than instinctively following stuff drilled into them day in and day out on the training pitch. You see it constantly. The encapsulation of this was two of our players literally running into each other trying to run onto the ball to take a shot. Shouldn't be in each other's zones like that in a well drilled team and likewise we too often see opposition players left in acres of space as our defenders are second guessing whether to hold or push up etc so what happens is one does one thing and the other does the other and you end up with a massive gaping hole where the opposition just run through on goal almost surprised by what's happened as per minute 1 in the cup game v Villa which was another "encapsulation" moment of everything that is wrong with the current coaching regime.

I think I'm going to ask a fair few of you deep thinkers (like me) to add an extra focus on our defensive line and offside tactics when putting this whole thing together. The more I watch, the more I feel that so much of the players discomfort defensively comes from how the line is dictating our play. There was some incredible tight offsides that our defence coordinated last night. It is a joy to watch when it works. However, when one of the players loses their bottle and drop a little, bad things happen. This is perhaps the biggest example of where it is practically impossible to simulate this on the training ground. It is similar to how the players comfortably play that one-touch, two-touch football out of tight spaces on the training ground. Then they all look in shock when the opposition know exactly what they're going to and it doesn't work in a real match day situation.

As you're saying, it's the same things that are happening in an attacking sense. We're not not using the full width of the pitch and we're not creating a creative grid of players that can play one-touch / two-touch football against a team that is behind the ball. We're not creating space because the players are getting in each others way.

The frustrating thing for me is that these issues aren't huge. They are very fixable if we had the right coaching platform in place. There is so much to build on.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

He’s had two years. If they’re not following instructions, or are incapable of doing so, they should have been out the door or on the bench.

Again I’m talking about the last 2/3 minutes of extra time where the players should use all the years of coaching and experience
Just like the Chelsea players did
Instead we made dumb passes and fouls. That not tactical, that’s sheer stupidity

 

[Muttley]

Again I’m talking about the last 2/3 minutes of extra time where the players should use all the years of coaching and experience
Just like the Chelsea players did
Instead we made dumb passes and fouls. That not tactical, that’s sheer stupidity

So when Johnson commits that foul in the corner, is that stupidity or just a sign that the Ange way just isn't as important as it could be? If we were in 4th position in the league, and fighting for a CL place, would it happen?

We do certainly have some dumbasses in our squad. We also don't have a guy like Johnson getting any feedback from his team mates for being that impetuous in the moment.

 

[elyid]

From this morning's press conference and Football London's report

Ange's mistake on celebrating the goal​

I think he is seriously deluded.

He’s not deluded, he’s just talking bs.

He has nothing to lose and prob wants to hang on a long as possible so has seemingly decided to adopt the position he can spout any old rubbish.

 

[Bishop]

So why do we have no organisation, no solid defensive foundation, no structure, no plan even going forward? We look a shambles defensively every friggin game no matter who the players. You’re seriously telling me that’s not on the manager and it’s purely the players making mistakes and lack of leadership?

That's reads like a manager who has totally failed at his job of motivating his players physically and tactically. I know Bedford wants to abdicate responsibility from Ange and purely on to the player for whatever reason but it still reflects terribly on Ange's reign and his ability to impact games and the structure.

 

[Bishop]

I think I'm going to ask a fair few of you deep thinkers (like me) to add an extra focus on our defensive line and offside tactics when putting this whole thing together. The more I watch, the more I feel that so much of the players discomfort defensively comes from how the line is dictating our play. There was some incredible tight offsides that our defence coordinated last night. It is a joy to watch when it works. However, when one of the players loses their bottle and drop a little, bad things happen. This is perhaps the biggest example of where it is practically impossible to simulate this on the training ground. It is similar to how the players comfortably play that one-touch, two-touch football out of tight spaces on the training ground. Then they all look in shock when the opposition know exactly what they're going to and it doesn't work in a real match day situation.

As you're saying, it's the same things that are happening in an attacking sense. We're not not using the full width of the pitch and we're not creating a creative grid of players that can play one-touch / two-touch football against a team that is behind the ball. We're not creating space because the players are getting in each others way.

The frustrating thing for me is that these issues aren't huge. They are very fixable if we had the right coaching platform in place. There is so much to build on.

I'd suggest you watch Barcelona under Hansi Flick this season. Its everything Ange is trying to achieve, the halfway based defensive line, the intensive press, the increasingly intricate passing patterns before goal. Its just done with far batter players and far better coaching. The other key difference is that their FBs don't tend to invert and instead keep the width. I do find it interesting watching them and seeing the Ange system done right, they are so much more organised defensively, the players clearly know how to react and respond and even given that they do occasionally get caught out but it's no where to the degree that we do.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

That's reads like a manager who has totally failed at his job of motivating his players physically and tactically. I know Bedford wants to abdicate responsibility from Ange and purely on to the player for whatever reason but it still reflects terribly on Ange's reign and his ability to impact games and the structure.

Your talking balls
I’ve never said that
But I just don’t get how the players get excused from failing in the basics and it’s always deemed to be tactical
That Effort they had in the first 40 seconds came because two £45m centre backs didn’t deceive between them whi would mark their ONE striker. That’s awful. Truly weak from the pair of them and fudging naive
Similarly at the end when we’re chasing the game and we have djed, Bentacur and Tel receiving the ball we have no one do sing to receive it. Nine of these superstar, mega star, mega paid players realised they needed to help the other players out. Again that’s shocking from the players
Ange has issues but these players are fudging dumb

 

[Bishop]

Your talking balls
I’ve never said that
But I just don’t get how the players get excused from failing in the basics and it’s always deemed to be tactical
That Effort they had in the first 40 seconds came because two £45m centre backs didn’t deceive between them whi would mark their ONE striker. That’s awful. Truly weak from the pair of them and fudging naive
Similarly at the end when we’re chasing the game and we have djed, Bentacur and Tel receiving the ball we have no one do sing to receive it. Nine of these superstar, mega star, mega paid players realised they needed to help the other players out. Again that’s shocking from the players
Ange has issues but these players are fudging dumb

You don't need to say it, it's the undercurrent in your posts. Under a different manager these same players with different instruction and tuition won't appear so dumb. They are far from perfect but Ange just exacerbates their weaknesses.

A great coach fosters a system and a way of playing that mitigates the weaknesses of the players he has. Ange's system actively isolates their weaknesses and highlights them for all of the opposition to see.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

You don't need to say it, it's the undercurrent in your posts. Under a different manager these same players with different instruction and tuition won't appear so dumb. They are far from perfect but Ange just exacerbates their weaknesses.

A great coach fosters a system and a way of playing that mitigates the weaknesses of the players he has. Ange's system actively isolates their weaknesses and highlights them for all of the opposition to see.

Great coaches do many things
Doesn’t excuse these players failing at the most basic things

 

[yiddo37]

That Chelsea team is pretty average

It is. Despite the money spent, without Palmer they'd be near where we are.

 

[K.D.D.D.D.Soc]

Your talking balls
I’ve never said that
But I just don’t get how the players get excused from failing in the basics and it’s always deemed to be tactical
That Effort they had in the first 40 seconds came because two £45m centre backs didn’t deceive between them whi would mark their ONE striker. That’s awful. Truly weak from the pair of them and fudging naive
Similarly at the end when we’re chasing the game and we have djed, Bentacur and Tel receiving the ball we have no one do sing to receive it. Nine of these superstar, mega star, mega paid players realised they needed to help the other players out. Again that’s shocking from the players
Ange has issues but these players are fudging dumb

Totally agree in any walk of life you have to accept responsibility for your actions, the players are making basic mistakes and appear happy to let the manager take the blame. No matter how bad you think Postercoglus tactics are I'm sure he's not instructed players to give up possession and leave players unmarked. I've never looked so forward to the end of a season as this. The manager will get the sack which may postpone the continual moaning but I'm sure there are some who will carry on at least until Christmas.
I think Postercoglu has his idea of how the game should be played and I have a lot of respect for that, he has had to put up the worse injury list since the Munich crash and constant sniping in the media and his own fans, the pressure on him is unbearable to my mind and I'm not surprised by his reactions.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

It is. Despite the money spent, without Palmer they'd be near where we are.

Their fans know it too
Although they are venting more at the manager
Their best player was Chalobah for me along with Fernandez
Chalobah bossed the area

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Totally agree in any walk of life you have to accept responsibility for your actions, the players are making basic mistakes and appear happy to let the manager take the blame. No matter how bad you think Postercoglus tactics are I'm sure he's not instructed players to give up possession and leave players unmarked. I've never looked so forward to the end of a season as this. The manager will get the sack which may postpone the continual moaning but I'm sure there are some who will carry on at least until Christmas.
I think Postercoglu has his idea of how the game should be played and I have a lot of respect for that, he has had to put up the worse injury list since the Munich crash and constant sniping in the media and his own fans, the pressure on him is unbearable to my mind and I'm not surprised by his reactions.

Seeing players kick the ball 2 yards short
Or trying some weird drag back
Or just not even controlling it
That’s not tactics or coaching. That’s the players not performing to a minimum level
Ange doesn’t help himself though which is why he is gone this summer

 

[Silly McSilly Face]

Their fans know it too
Although they are venting more at the manager
Their best player was Chalobah for me along with Fernandez
Chalobah bossed the area

Chelsea have overspent 100%. Other than Palmer I don't think any other of their players gets a sniff at Liverpool, Arsenal or City for example.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Chelsea have overspent 100%. Other than Palmer I don't think any other of their players gets a sniff at Liverpool, Arsenal or City for example.

They have

 

[thfcsteff]

Ah, I had missed him being ill.
I mean there was clearly a reason for it, it would just have been helpful to hear it from Ange.

Well...we heard from him...and I was wrong! He just made a bizarre decision!!!!! Surely Bergvall, Maddison and Sarr would've been the mix at that time???

 

[thfcsteff]

This is one of my bug bears of football. Football fans almost always assume that a player is being subbed because his performance wasn't good enough and don't consider that there are multiple other reasons for a manager taking off a player. As if Bergvall was ever going to be subbed if he was fully fit....

Sadly, it appears maybe both of us were wrong. I certainly appear to hve been :-(