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OMT: Spurs v Chelsea Thursday, 8pm at Stamford Bridge

Glenda's Legs said:
I'd have liked to have heard one of the journalists ask him about his reasoning for the Bergvall substitution, as that was what led to the ' you don't know what you're doing' chants, rather than just focus on the subsequent ear-cupping. (Or maybe that has been asked/answered and I just haven't come across it yet).
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I assumed it was because Bergvall had been sick during the international break and was still not at full pelt. He definitely dropped way off in the second-half, so has to have been an energy thing?
 
billyiddo said:
Our next manager appointment will provide further evidence as to whether the higher-ups are truly learning from past mistakes.

We've already seen this season that we're becoming less trigger-happy than in previous years. Appointing a replacement who aligns with Ange's general ethos would be a good sign that lessons are being learned and that there's a long-term vision in place.
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Agreed.
I think it is the most important discussion/hope right now, that we stay with the purported vision. I won't hold my breath, albeit in fairness, Ange has lasted longer than anyone would've (or indeed did) under Levy previously. Still, I cannot quite believe the leopard has become a lion...
 
Muttley said:
It wasn't.

I did find it frustrating at the end though when Chelsea just slotted back into a 4-5-1. You know that there isn't a single Ange tactic that can break down a parked bus. It just doesn't work if we can't pull them into our half and then find the open space in theirs to work with.
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The performance wasn't bad, just lacking some cutting edge I thought. I like to gauge the opinion of people I know over this place who don't support Spurs because there is definitely some bias in assessment here regardless of result/performance and my mates have no problem telling me when Spurs played brick but noone suggested so - it wasnt a bad performance at all. But we are in severe need of a quality winger, Son is painful. And I have said for ages that Udogie is not all that, he had a good few months at the start when he was unknown but he has been poor for a hell of a lot longer than he has been good. Spence is good at both right and left back, but I actually think he has put in better performances at LB(not a big sample size I appreciate) and I would have him at LB and Porro RB going forwards.

For me I was still ok waiting until the end of the season with Ange and seeing what he did with a fit again squad, rotating better with a better understanding of the injury situation and seeing where it took us with PL performances and in the EL. But based on last night and nothing to do with the performance, I think he should go because going to the fans when we score cupping his ear is just too much. I've excused him when it is isolated fans going for him trying to wind him up, but lasts night's scenario there is just no excuse. Whether he's right or wrong that's the sort of thing he has to rise above.....
 
thfcsteff said:
I assumed it was because Bergvall had been sick during the international break and was still not at full pelt. He definitely dropped way off in the second-half, so has to have been an energy thing?
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This is one of my bug bears of football. Football fans almost always assume that a player is being subbed because his performance wasn't good enough and don't consider that there are multiple other reasons for a manager taking off a player. As if Bergvall was ever going to be subbed if he was fully fit....
 
Glenda's Legs said:
I'd have liked to have heard one of the journalists ask him about his reasoning for the Bergvall substitution, as that was what led to the ' you don't know what you're doing' chants, rather than just focus on the subsequent ear-cupping. (Or maybe that has been asked/answered and I just haven't come across it yet).
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Probably worth noting at this point that there's a group of coaches on the bench also who will be in discussion the whole time about how the players are performing, based on both what they see and also the data coming back from the body worn kit, if I'm not mistaken?

Bergvall was the only combative performance in midfield last night, Madison doesn't look motivated irrespective of what he says in interviews and Bentancur isn't really on form either. Sarr coming on was a good idea to inject some energy into proceedings but the question has to be asked why in a local blood and guts derby we needed to try to inject energy.

I'm running out of ways to support this manager, principally because the results are going so badly, but also because the flip side to the results previously was that we were a swashbuckling attacking monster. There's very little evidence of that now.

Take the entertainment out of the matches and suddenly we are just losing all the time.

I fear a change is coming, and if Levy has any sense at all it will not be Mason. Watch out for a crazy Tottenham legend appointment designed to mask the mood and under performance. Meaning it will be Klinsmann or Hoddle or Sandro til the end of the year.
 
thfcsteff said:
I assumed it was because Bergvall had been sick during the international break and was still not at full pelt. He definitely dropped way off in the second-half, so has to have been an energy thing?
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Ah, I had missed him being ill.
I mean there was clearly a reason for it, it would just have been helpful to hear it from Ange.
 
harr1984 said:
This is one of my bug bears of football. Football fans almost always assume that a player is being subbed because his performance wasn't good enough and don't consider that there are multiple other reasons for a manager taking off a player. As if Bergvall was ever going to be subbed if he was fully fit....
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For me it wasn't just about this one sub, it's been the frustration building up at his subs in general. Son has been shocking for 90% of the season but hardly ever gets taken off. Odobert was better than Son but was taken off instead. There have been other baffling decisions. On top of that there have been games were we are getting battered and he stands there with his arms folded doing nothing subs wise until after 70 mins.
If he at least explained why Bergvall and Odobert were subbed with Son and Madders left on that would be at least something.
 
Surfless said:
I fear a change is coming, and if Levy has any sense at all it will not be Mason. Watch out for a crazy Tottenham legend appointment designed to mask the mood and under performance. Meaning it will be Klinsmann or Hoddle or Sandro til the end of the year.
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I reckon go for Nicola Berti. He could put on some of his legendary bunga bunga parties to cheer up the players. And there'd be LOLs to cheer up the fans. His song would need updating though - my name is Nicola Berti, I'm now aged about sixty
 
harr1984 said:
The performance wasn't bad, just lacking some cutting edge I thought. I like to gauge the opinion of people I know over this place who don't support Spurs because there is definitely some bias in assessment here regardless of result/performance and my mates have no problem telling me when Spurs played brick but noone suggested so - it wasnt a bad performance at all. But we are in severe need of a quality winger, Son is painful. And I have said for ages that Udogie is not all that, he had a good few months at the start when he was unknown but he has been poor for a hell of a lot longer than he has been good. Spence is good at both right and left back, but I actually think he has put in better performances at LB(not a big sample size I appreciate) and I would have him at LB and Porro RB going forwards.

For me I was still ok waiting until the end of the season with Ange and seeing what he did with a fit again squad, rotating better with a better understanding of the injury situation and seeing where it took us with PL performances and in the EL. But based on last night and nothing to do with the performance, I think he should go because going to the fans when we score cupping his ear is just too much. I've excused him when it is isolated fans going for him trying to wind him up, but lasts night's scenario there is just no excuse. Whether he's right or wrong that's the sort of thing he has to rise above.....
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I might be in the minority here as well. I've seen some fans justifying our performance by saying Chelsea were awful, therefore we were worse. That just isn't true. Chelsea were hot favourites and had a really expensively signed team that has played together a lot. They are fighting for CL football and you could just tell. On the most part, we did well to go toe to toe with them and have 50% possession of the ball.

I could definitely see places where we could have used the ball better and retained it more. The problem is we were trying to do it in our own corners rather than in midfield like they were. Quite honestly, if we had reverted to Ange ball we would have probably lost by 2 or 3. We would have pushed the midfield high, the wingers wide and the full-backs inverted. We would have been picked off. Ange did the right thing trying to keep that shape.

All this will stand us in good stead for the weekend. We will see more expansive football at home against a relegation side. Would never surprise me if the Stamford Bridge experience catalyses some of the things we're trying to do.

As for the relationship with the fans, you are right. He needs to rise above it. By the way, it is the same with the media. That poor guy (doing his job) who interviewed him last night didn't deserve that disrespect. I think it was Patrick Davidson. Ange's ego clearly thinks Pat was not allowed to ask him difficult questions. Ange was trying to make out he was twisting things. He wasn't. In fact Pat made our manager look a right idiot last night by being non-emotional and fact based, something our manager could learn a lot from.
 
harr1984 said:
The performance wasn't bad, just lacking some cutting edge I thought. I like to gauge the opinion of people I know over this place who don't support Spurs because there is definitely some bias in assessment here regardless of result/performance and my mates have no problem telling me when Spurs played brick but noone suggested so - it wasnt a bad performance at all. But we are in severe need of a quality winger, Son is painful. And I have said for ages that Udogie is not all that, he had a good few months at the start when he was unknown but he has been poor for a hell of a lot longer than he has been good. Spence is good at both right and left back, but I actually think he has put in better performances at LB(not a big sample size I appreciate) and I would have him at LB and Porro RB going forwards.

For me I was still ok waiting until the end of the season with Ange and seeing what he did with a fit again squad, rotating better with a better understanding of the injury situation and seeing where it took us with PL performances and in the EL. But based on last night and nothing to do with the performance, I think he should go because going to the fans when we score cupping his ear is just too much. I've excused him when it is isolated fans going for him trying to wind him up, but lasts night's scenario there is just no excuse. Whether he's right or wrong that's the sort of thing he has to rise above.....
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It wasn’t bad
It was tepid
It was like drinking cold coffee
None of the players showed any bravery or ambition
They all played within themselves
There was also some incredibly stupid play
Our left side is where we passed ten ball when we wanted to keep it but do nothing
The right side couldn’t control the ball
Chelsea look poor to me. Like they have even over coached
We looked poor because we had a lot of players who looked like they didn’t want to be there
 
harr1984 said:
The performance wasn't bad, just lacking some cutting edge I thought. I like to gauge the opinion of people I know over this place who don't support Spurs because there is definitely some bias in assessment here regardless of result/performance and my mates have no problem telling me when Spurs played brick but noone suggested so - it wasnt a bad performance at all. But we are in severe need of a quality winger, Son is painful. And I have said for ages that Udogie is not all that, he had a good few months at the start when he was unknown but he has been poor for a hell of a lot longer than he has been good. Spence is good at both right and left back, but I actually think he has put in better performances at LB(not a big sample size I appreciate) and I would have him at LB and Porro RB going forwards.

For me I was still ok waiting until the end of the season with Ange and seeing what he did with a fit again squad, rotating better with a better understanding of the injury situation and seeing where it took us with PL performances and in the EL. But based on last night and nothing to do with the performance, I think he should go because going to the fans when we score cupping his ear is just too much. I've excused him when it is isolated fans going for him trying to wind him up, but lasts night's scenario there is just no excuse. Whether he's right or wrong that's the sort of thing he has to rise above.....
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The cutting edge is the thing though. Last night we had some decent spells of general play, also some spells were Chelsea looked like they would just run through us. But in the good spells we get to the edge of the opposition box and we don’t look like scoring. They had a week to prepare for the fixture and from an attacking point of view we were poor, did we even create one chance for Solanke?
The general plan under ange is to get to the byline and pull it back, but several times players are all standing in the same space, need players going front post, penalty spot and back post for it to work.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
The system isn’t why the players fudge around with it when they need to get it forward
It’s the polar opposite
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So why do we have no organisation, no solid defensive foundation, no structure, no plan even going forward? We look a shambles defensively every friggin game no matter who the players. You’re seriously telling me that’s not on the manager and it’s purely the players making mistakes and lack of leadership?
 
Muttley said:
I might be in the minority here as well. I've seen some fans justifying our performance by saying Chelsea were awful, therefore we were worse. That just isn't true. Chelsea were hot favourites and had a really expensively signed team that has played together a lot. They are fighting for CL football and you could just tell. On the most part, we did well to go toe to toe with them and have 50% possession of the ball.

I could definitely see places where we could have used the ball better and retained it more. The problem is we were trying to do it in our own corners rather than in midfield like they were. Quite honestly, if we had reverted to Ange ball we would have probably lost by 2 or 3. We would have pushed the midfield high, the wingers wide and the full-backs inverted. We would have been picked off. Ange did the right thing trying to keep that shape.

All this will stand us in good stead for the weekend. We will see more expansive football at home against a relegation side. Would never surprise me if the Stamford Bridge experience catalyses some of the things we're trying to do.

As for the relationship with the fans, you are right. He needs to rise above it. By the way, it is the same with the media. That poor guy (doing his job) who interviewed him last night didn't deserve that disrespect. I think it was Patrick Davidson. Ange's ego clearly thinks Pat was not allowed to ask him difficult questions. Ange was trying to make out he was twisting things. He wasn't. In fact Pat made our manager look a right idiot last night by being non-emotional and fact based, something our manager could learn a lot from.
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You're right about Chelsea's squad being superior and expensively assembled as well as their position in the table. However, they have been in poor form recently and didn't look confident last night. It was a poor quality game. They weren't great and we were significantly worse, particularly in the first half. Game was riddled with mistakes, poor decision making and poor finishing.
 
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