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Where is it going wrong in attack?
- Thread starter SUIYHA
- Start date
I think if you look at most of our goals this season we are on the counter and we have players breaking from midfield. When we are asked to take the game to the opposition at WHL then we find it very hard in the 4-3-3.
Attacking wise when spurs were at our very best was when we had Berba and Keane up top, they had a real understanding and opposing defences were terrified because of their MOVEMENT. Also, if you remember back to when we beat Saudi Sportswashing Machine 5-0 two seasons ago under Harry Ade and Saha were excellent, their movement was top class. For me at home i think 4-4-2 is the way to go and play Soldado and Ade up top however we know AVB isnt going to play that system so..
The main issue right now is the understanding between midfield and Soldado. Everything is pretty much coming down the middle in this 4-3-3 and Soldado isnt moving enough to create space for balls to be threaded through and also he's not taking defenders away to give other players space. Things are too congested and its very simple for oposing teams now to come and defend at wHL. Soldado needs to up his work rate imo and i think that will come and then he needs someone like Eriksen or Holtby to pick him out.
I watched Emirates Marketing Project last night and Silva and Agureo are the perfect example, of players in harmony. If you watch the City goal the ball is played through prefectly weighted and he knows when Agureo is going to be.
Also Suarez and Sturridge on saturday, one drops in the hole and then the other plays off the shoulder. what we need is more understanding particually between the number 10 (holtby or eriksen) and the number 9. We also need our number 10 to score 10 goals this season. You look at Chelsea and Oscar will easily get 10 goals this season, Suarez will get 20, Rooney 15-20, Ozil 10. I think Eriksen got 10 goals last year for Ajax so it is possible
Attacking wise when spurs were at our very best was when we had Berba and Keane up top, they had a real understanding and opposing defences were terrified because of their MOVEMENT. Also, if you remember back to when we beat Saudi Sportswashing Machine 5-0 two seasons ago under Harry Ade and Saha were excellent, their movement was top class. For me at home i think 4-4-2 is the way to go and play Soldado and Ade up top however we know AVB isnt going to play that system so..
The main issue right now is the understanding between midfield and Soldado. Everything is pretty much coming down the middle in this 4-3-3 and Soldado isnt moving enough to create space for balls to be threaded through and also he's not taking defenders away to give other players space. Things are too congested and its very simple for oposing teams now to come and defend at wHL. Soldado needs to up his work rate imo and i think that will come and then he needs someone like Eriksen or Holtby to pick him out.
I watched Emirates Marketing Project last night and Silva and Agureo are the perfect example, of players in harmony. If you watch the City goal the ball is played through prefectly weighted and he knows when Agureo is going to be.
Also Suarez and Sturridge on saturday, one drops in the hole and then the other plays off the shoulder. what we need is more understanding particually between the number 10 (holtby or eriksen) and the number 9. We also need our number 10 to score 10 goals this season. You look at Chelsea and Oscar will easily get 10 goals this season, Suarez will get 20, Rooney 15-20, Ozil 10. I think Eriksen got 10 goals last year for Ajax so it is possible
I
indianspur
Guest
5 in 5 at home in the league
last season at home was poor too......29 goals scored in 19 home league games.
Bullet
Colin Calderwood
Silva and Aguero is the right idea... or those wee friggers at Woolwich. Not Crouch, nor Benteke.
We have skilful tricksters, but they aren't doing skills nor tricks, just passing, passing, passing. Someone needs to beat their man and cause havoc or get a meaningful shot away, not just pass, pass, pass the buck.
We have skilful tricksters, but they aren't doing skills nor tricks, just passing, passing, passing. Someone needs to beat their man and cause havoc or get a meaningful shot away, not just pass, pass, pass the buck.
I
indianspur
Guest
some interesting comments from Fabregas on certain styles of football.....its about Real Madrid and Bale but can easily apply to us too
Both, like Fabregas, are former PFA young player winners who came of age in England. This will be Fabregas’s fifth league clasico and Bale’s first. The Barcelona man believes the debutant will find his feet at Madrid and, if they play to his strengths, will thrive.
He says: ‘The question is, “How do they play with him in the side?” If Madrid want to dominate possession, then he will find it more difficult because he will not have that space in front of him — Madrid will have the ball and the opposition will close up defensively and sit deep.
But if they are not going to dominate possession, as has been the case for the last few years with Jose Mourinho, then opposition teams think “Great, we’ve got the ball”, they grow in confidence and they move up the pitch and, bang! A counter-attack and a goal, and he will really enjoy that.’
Is there a danger for Barcelona that he will begin really enjoying himself today against a team who love to dominate possession and play high up the pitch?
‘Well, Madrid in recent years have not liked it when other teams let them have the ball and waited for them deep inside their own half. Cristiano Ronaldo finds himself with two lines of four in front of him. Now Bale will be in the same position. They like the opposition to grow in confidence and come out with the ball so they can win it back and, in two passes, they are back down the other end of the pitch. They have such powerful players going forward and they do a lot of damage.
‘In the last few clasicos they have done things very well against us. You have to give them credit for how they have gone about things. They have waited for us and let us play. They have aggressive players at the back, they have won possession from us and made it very difficult for us on the counter-attack.’
.......................
i think we have to let the opposition have more of the ball. We have to draw them out of their half, make them lose their shape, and then we smartly win it back and hit on the counter.
Both, like Fabregas, are former PFA young player winners who came of age in England. This will be Fabregas’s fifth league clasico and Bale’s first. The Barcelona man believes the debutant will find his feet at Madrid and, if they play to his strengths, will thrive.
He says: ‘The question is, “How do they play with him in the side?” If Madrid want to dominate possession, then he will find it more difficult because he will not have that space in front of him — Madrid will have the ball and the opposition will close up defensively and sit deep.
But if they are not going to dominate possession, as has been the case for the last few years with Jose Mourinho, then opposition teams think “Great, we’ve got the ball”, they grow in confidence and they move up the pitch and, bang! A counter-attack and a goal, and he will really enjoy that.’
Is there a danger for Barcelona that he will begin really enjoying himself today against a team who love to dominate possession and play high up the pitch?
‘Well, Madrid in recent years have not liked it when other teams let them have the ball and waited for them deep inside their own half. Cristiano Ronaldo finds himself with two lines of four in front of him. Now Bale will be in the same position. They like the opposition to grow in confidence and come out with the ball so they can win it back and, in two passes, they are back down the other end of the pitch. They have such powerful players going forward and they do a lot of damage.
‘In the last few clasicos they have done things very well against us. You have to give them credit for how they have gone about things. They have waited for us and let us play. They have aggressive players at the back, they have won possession from us and made it very difficult for us on the counter-attack.’
.......................
i think we have to let the opposition have more of the ball. We have to draw them out of their half, make them lose their shape, and then we smartly win it back and hit on the counter.
Interesting how we look at things ... not sure I agree with much of those observations
- Berbatov and Keane had to make things happen because our midfield was poor and quite often bullied out of games. A lot of our goals were route 1 to Berbs who used his insane ability to bring down a really poor pass and get it to Keane. Robbo/Dawson -> Berbs -> Keane -> goal. We play a bit better than that now.
- Chelsea? their players like Oscar and Matta have to score because their strikers have been misfiring for 3 seasons now, it's not a design of the system (some stat this week-end said Torres actually only had 2 or 3 shots on target for season before this week-ends game in PL.
- City? Aguero, Silva, Toure are 3 of the best players in the world, all on probably upwards of 200K a week, might as well say we would be better if we had Messi or Ronaldo in side
- for Pool, I actually don't think clubs sit as deep against them as us or any of the top 4.
Our issue is simple, teams sit back with 10/11 men and squeeze the pitch, options?
- Get ball wide, use pace and get behind, e.g. use some combination of Lennon/Townsend/Chadli together
- Pass the ball quicker, find a space and have intelligent runs into the box.
For me, we haven't had Lennon/Chadli/Townsend fit and playing together in any real way. And Paulinho/Holtby/Eriksen/Lamela just have learnt each other and their runs yet. Couple of cases with Holtby/JD and Eriksen/Siggy it has come off, but watch our games closely, lot of "almost" stuff that hopefully time will fix.
Now stick 10 opposition circles in there and I think you can begin to see why we struggle, we even compound that by playing inverted wide men which condenses the space even more. I would move Hugo up 20 yards but it won't let me.
Yes, but it makes our game safer for the most part.
Moving our 10 back may create some more space by drawing the opposition forward, but also gives them more ball opportunities in our half.
We simply have to work it out, AVB is a safety first coach, possession in the area you have highlighted, makes it very hard for opposition to pressure your goal.
screen nayim
John Gorman
Fully agree with this. Love Sandro, but not needed at home to bus parkers.
Modric THFC
Jimmy McCormick
I knew the spacing wasn't good yesterday but I didn't realise it was quite this bad ....
Townsend and Lennon swapped sides so the average of their wide positions is the middle of the pitch. The other 3 were definitely stuck in that zone if you check the passing chalkboards.
Modric THFC
Jimmy McCormick
The reason to use him woudl be to sit beside an attacking central midfielder like Eriksen or Holtby.
Now stick 10 opposition circles in there and I think you can begin to see why we struggle, we even compound that by playing inverted wide men which condenses the space even more. I would move Hugo up 20 yards but it won't let me.
You know those players aren't to scale, right?
ALtottenham_hotspur
Jamie Redknapp
I knew the spacing wasn't good yesterday but I didn't realise it was quite this bad ....
I dont mind playing with attacking forwards/inverted wingers it does work.
Yesterday it didnt work and it was only late in the 2nd half before Lennon and Townsend did swap sides and it didnt last long. Hull were playing wing backs the best way to play against that formation is high wingers pinning the wing back back to the touchline, this then leaves space for your full back to attack and get crosses in.
We didnt do that yesterday we kept going with the same game plan. Worryingly this has happened a few times under AVB
Think it was very bold move by AVB to moan about the fans, its gonna go one of to ways next home game fans will lift the roof off or one poor result and the fans will be on his back!
You don't come here often do you, if you listen carefully you'll hear the knives being sharpened by a few posters as you read this.
thfcsteff
Garth Crooks
As I said earlier, I don't think there is a genuine belief that we are going to score with every attack. We are just going through the motions at times. But looking a little closer, I think it is often just a numbers game. We wonder why the likes of Arsenal and Chelsea don't struggle to score even though teams are camped in their own area.
Well let's look at a few examples here of yesterdays game with Chelsea and us.
I think the full backs of late have not done enough to overload the flanks giving us a chance to change the angle of attack and get to the byline. We can see here:
Andros is doing what he does, driving at the opposition. Here we don't have Walker up in support on the outside, and Lewis is drifting in too. And for me Soldado is also perhaps a little too easy to mark here. He likes to look for the little give and go's. Occasionally it might be better to hang off the last defender and get on his blind side so he doesn't know where he is. Ok so this is a counter attack, but part of the problem is we are so eager to get at them, particularly Andros that we don't wait for that support to arrive. I don't think we get enough numbers into the box either.
Soladado needs a midfielder coming in to that MASSIVE space behind him, the sort of area where Paulinho or Eriksen would be coming into. If Holtby is in the side instead of Eriksen, I expect him to be in there mate...Soldado LOVES to move fast, problem is with a player like Andros you simply do not know when he is going to release the ball, or even if. 'Tis the price we pay for a player of that verve, and I think he is developing for sure, but it simply underscores how much of our side is still a work in progress!
thfcsteff
Garth Crooks
I just want to point out that post-Spammers, the furor because he DIDN'T play was deafening.
punk_is_back`
Ilie Dumitrescu
Benteke's physicality and technique can make opportunities for himself; whereas Soldado is reliant purely on intelligent movement. If a defender is quicker or stronger than him; its more difficult for him to hold the ball up or to reach the ball if it's played into space. It's not the issue of space itself, but that Benteke will actually give CBs something to worry about as its not just his movement that will occupy a defender but his speed and strength and his technique is underrated.
Modric THFC
Jimmy McCormick
How is he gonna get the ball? Because Soldado doesnt get the ball passed to him.
Why would that change if it Benteke up there?
Long high balls no doubt. Great.