Where is it going wrong in attack?

[indianspur]

Wow - that video reminds me just how much space teams used to give us.

what i saw was the opposition with the ball, us winning it back and then hitting them on the break. Of course we had more space,we played differently under Redknapp. We never controlled games with possession like we do know under AVB, our passing was more erratic, we lost the ball more, so of course the opposition had a bit more of the ball and with the ball they tried to build attacks and thus lost some of their defensive shape

right now our massive possession and slowness in shifting the ball around allows the opposition to build defensive walls and thus constrict the space we have in which to attack

 

[Nigeyman]

what i saw was the opposition with the ball, us winning it back and then hitting them on the break. Of course we had more space,we played differently under Redknapp. We never controlled games with possession like we do know under AVB, our passing was more erratic, we lost the ball more, so of course the opposition had a bit more of the ball and with the ball they tried to build attacks and thus lost some of their defensive shape

right now our massive possession and slowness in shifting the ball around allows the opposition to build defensive walls and thus constrict the space we have in which to attack

so we cant pull off the tika taka so we should give the ball away more lol.......

you are right in your assessment though as to whats happening.......hopefully speed of passing and of thought will happen in time.

 

[indianspur]

so we cant pull off the tika taka so we should give the ball away more lol.......

you are right in your assessment though as to whats happening.......hopefully speed of passing and of thought will happen in time.

if we had a Messi who banged in 50 goals a season then we could continue with the tiki taka...but we dont

 

[Nigeyman]

if we had a Messi who banged in 50 goals a season then we could continue with the tiki taka...but we dont

nope we have Lamela who will be better :lol:

 

[SteveAWOL]

and imagine how many of those sides tried to park the bus against Utd. Made no difference though did it

Indeed. I thought I'd have a look at how the Top 7 fared at home against the bottom half during Redknapp' reign and unsurprisingly Fergie' ManU top this table with not a single visiting team able to keep a clean sheet at OT, although Chavs and Emirates Marketing Project are only just behind. Once again we trailed well behind the rest of the Sky 4.

Redknapp era	Played	Won	Drawn	Lost	Clean Sheets	Failed To Score	Goals For	Goals Against	Goal Diff	Points
ManU	38	34	3	1	27	0	110	16	+94	104
Chavs	38	34	3	1	22	2	107	22	+85	104
Emirates Marketing Project	38	32	6	0	21	1	95	28	+67	102
L'ARSEnal	38	31	3	4	24	3	92	20	+70	96
Liverpool	38	26	9	3	21	5	80	20	+60	87
Spurs	38	26	8	4	18	6	75	23	+52	86
Everton	38	18	13	7	12	5	66	40	+26	67

Both of these tables are rather distressing.

Comparing AVB and Harry' records against the bottom teams doesn't make for much better reading but AVB is young and still learning his trade so I am confident that he'll get this inexperienced squad crushing the bottom teams, just like a Top 4 side should, before this season is done... [-o<

	Played	Win %	Draw %	Loss %	Clean Sheet %	Failed To Score %	Ave Goals For	Ave Goals Against	Points per game
AVB	12	58.3%	16.7%	25%	42%	33%	1.17	0.75	1.92
Redknapp	38	68.4%	21.1%	10.5%	47%	16%	1.97	0.61	2.26

http://www.statto.com/football/stats/england/premier-league/2012-2013/versus-bottom-half/home

 

[braineclipse]

And Capoue missed easy passes against Arsenal. We'll see. I have no doubt Spurs fans will turn on Capoue after some performances where his passing was poor, it's bound to happen, has there ever been a player that Spurs players have actually liked for the duration of his stay? Fickle bunch. But to say he's better than Sandro, Dembele and Paulinho is silly, then again it doesnt surprise me with some on here, I suppose they only remember his one good performance against Swansea. I'd say Capoue was more N'Zonzi level.

I suppose we will see as the league goes on, but if he starts ahead of the likes of Sandro, I'd be a little worried for AVBs health.

[video=youtube;xz_ne9BWECk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xz_ne9BWECk[/video]

I'll never forget THAT Palacios and like many Spurs fans, I haven't turned against him. Still one of the best few months of any Spurs player in my lifetime, the guy was unplayable and the first name on the team sheet.

Who has claimed that Capoue is better than Sandro, Dembele and Paulinho?

It's a frequency thing, (essentially) all players occasionally miss easy passes. Capoue hasn't showed anything to indicate that he will be anywhere near what Palacios showed in the second part of his spell. I haven't turned on Palacios either by the way, I have a lot of time for him.

 

[braineclipse]

what i saw was the opposition with the ball, us winning it back and then hitting them on the break. Of course we had more space,we played differently under Redknapp. We never controlled games with possession like we do know under AVB, our passing was more erratic, we lost the ball more, so of course the opposition had a bit more of the ball and with the ball they tried to build attacks and thus lost some of their defensive shape

right now our massive possession and slowness in shifting the ball around allows the opposition to build defensive walls and thus constrict the space we have in which to attack

Agree about slowness of shifting the ball around, disagree about possession.

Would you mind mentioning some top teams that successfully draw out teams like West Ham by purposefully having less possession?

 

[Spursalot]

Who has claimed that Capoue is better than Sandro, Dembele and Paulinho?

It's a frequency thing, (essentially) all players occasionally miss easy passes. Capoue hasn't showed anything to indicate that he will be anywhere near what Palacios showed in the second part of his spell. I haven't turned on Palacios either by the way, I have a lot of time for him.

Am also a bit confused about how people know where capoue will currently fit in the scheme of things.

He's barely played, been injured for the vast majority of his time here.

 

[Rossi22]

Those tables ... jeez. Especially the one where we've scored 14 in 12 against the lower teams whilst our competitiors are well into the 30s

 

[milo]

What are people's views on merging this thread with AVB - Making Tottenham His Own? We seem to have some parallel discussions going on.

 

[glorygloryeze]

what are people's views on merging this thread with avb - making tottenham his own? We seem to have some parallel discussions going on.

noooooooooooo

 

[milo]

noooooooooooo

OK then [-(

 

[braineclipse]

Am also a bit confused about how people know where capoue will currently fit in the scheme of things.

He's barely played, been injured for the vast majority of his time here.

Where he fits into the team is easy enough, one of the deep roles in a 4-2-3-1 or the anchor role in a 4-3-3 (4-1-2-2-1)

But I suppose the question is more "who does he replace?" Between himself, Paulinho, Sandro and Dembele we have a very close fight to start. For me it makes more sense to play Capoue or Sandro in most of those games as neither of them push forward all that successfully most of the time. Those midfielders have a tough fight on their hands to make themselves a regular starter in the league. Who will actually win out is tough to say at this point, but at the very least Capoue will put himself in contention - that I'm sure of.

 

[diego_maradona]

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2013/nov/03/tottenham
Interesting read

 

[AdamB]

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2013/nov/03/tottenham
Interesting read

EXACTLY what I've been banging on about for weeks. Eriksen needs to be playing and our wingers need to support Soldado more as he gets totally isolated

 

[africanspurs]

EXACTLY what I've been banging on about for weeks. Eriksen needs to be playing and our wingers need to support Soldado more as he gets totally isolated

but this isnt news.

the key is why dont they?

one other thing...much like when lennon and bale last ....how come lloris, F.U.C.K.I.N.G H.E.R.O, made decision on if he would come on or off?

 

[Hootnow]

but this isnt news.

the key is why dont they?

one other thing...much like when lennon and bale last ....how come lloris, F.U.C.K.I.N.G H.E.R.O, made decision on if he would come on or off?

I'm actually not sure Lloris should have stayed on to be honest.

 

[SPURSphenomenon]

I think its going "wrong" (or isnt flowing as well as we'd like), because we are adjusting to inverted wingers. We have never done it, and in my view, right now, we dont mix it up enough.

1. Teams defend a little deeper against us now so when the wide man comes in we end up running into a field of players or popping it off to a midfielder of our own by playing it square.
2. We do not get the ball in the box enough to create the danger because where Bale and Lennon would go wide and deliver, we have a situation where the wide player cuts in as above.
3. The wide men cutting in is no problem if you have full backs stretching play on both flanks, with Rose out at the moment this isnt happening (although Vertonghen did a v good job today, he was the one coming inside)
4. We need whoever is playing in the 10 position to get closer to Soldado to make the inverted winger more effective ala Sig vs Chelsea/Swansea, yet to see Townsend link up with the front man yet.*

Its going to take time, we have a lot of respect from teams and its a new system with a lot of new signings. I would only expect to see the fruits (in terms of quality football) in Feb/March. For now, as long as we win the games we should i'm not fussed.

*I love Townsend, but you can see Soldado begging for some support from him sometimes when in good positions.

 

[Spurs852]

Palacios, after his drop in form, was nothing like Capoue is currently. Palacios frequently misplaced those easy passes you say is all Capoue is capable of. Palacios then went into hiding and didn't even want to receive the ball becoming a complete passenger for us when we were attacking. Capoue on the other hand averaged the second most passes of any player in League 1 last season and topped at least once in the same stat for us in one of the games he was able to take part in.

I also disagree about Capoue only being able to play easy passes. The majority of his passes will be low risk, that comes with the position. But I think he's shown himself capable both of moving the ball fairly quickly and of playing some purposeful forward passes. All of this is a question of degrees though, no one is claiming that he's at the level of Modric, people are saying that he's better at this than Sandro, Dembele and Paulinho.

Spot on.

=D>

 

[Rossi22]

André Villas-Boas issued a staunch defence of Tottenham Hotspur's goals record this season as his side missed the chance to go second in the Premier League at Everton.

Both Everton and Spurs were unable to close the gap on the leaders, Arsenal, after producing a lacklustre goalless draw at Goodison Park, albeit one with nine minutes of added time after Hugo Lloris suffered a head injury in an accidental collision with Romelu Lukaku. The visiting goalkeeper was able to continue having refused to leave the field and it was the Everton striker who ultimately departed with a thigh problem.

The draw means Spurs have scored only nine league goals this season – three of them penalties. Only Hull have scored fewer among the top 10 teams in the Premier League. Villas-Boas, however, bristled at the post-match questions over his team's lack of penetration and pointed to a return of 30 goals from 17 matches in all competitions – including 15 in the Europa League and six in the Capital One Cup – as evidence of a functioning cutting edge.

"I don't think it is dramatic," said Villas-Boas. "We are on 30 goals in 17 games and it is the second highest ever at the club at this stage so I don't worry about that. Hull are sitting 10th and we are fourth. The chances are coming and sometimes they go your way and the opponent is not there to stop it. The team is creating more chances and more shots. I can carry on about all the good statistics and others can carry on about all the negative statistics and the debate will go nowhere.

"At the moment it is results that have put us in fourth and in one of the spots for the Champions League. You can have more goals, less goals. We all want excitement but right now the team is doing extremely well."

But the Spurs manager conceded his team should have been more clinical during a dominant first-half display. He added: "I am not disappointed with that result. In the end it was a good result and the only time Everton had a good go at us was in the last 25 to 30 minutes. We had a very good game and could have been a bit more clinical.

"I am still happy with the team, but because of what Everton did in the final stages it was a fair result. We couldn't be more happy with the players. They pressed well and had great motivation. There was a lot at stake for both teams with the chance to go second and I think we did extremely well."

Lloris required lengthy treatment after taking that blow to the head from Lukaku but Villas-Boas eventually agreed to the goalkeeper's request to continue. "Hugo still doesn't recall everything about the incident," he said. "It was a very difficult moment for us and I am happy he is well.

"I made the call to keep him on the pitch because of the signs he was giving. He was determined to continue and looked concentrated, driven and focused enough for me not to make the call to replace him. The saves he made after the incident proved that right."

Villas-Boas accepted the referee, Kevin Friend, was correct not to award a penalty when Jan Vertonghen fell under a Seamus Coleman challenge in the first half and again when the roles were reversed in the second half. "There was minimal contact," he said. Everton's manager, Roberto Martínez, however, believed Vertonghen should have been punished for his touch on the defender.

"They tell you decisions level themselves out over a season but it doesn't happen," said Martínez. "We had a similar situation at Villa and at the Etihad [Stadium]. Seamus gets impeded. He doesn't over-react, he gets back on his feet and it should have been a penalty."

:-k