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Where is it going wrong in attack?

I'm pretty sure that's exactly what we're already playing.

What you've posted is like a 4-2-3-1 with one of the two being quite attack minded - like Paulinho.

You could almost call it a 4-1-3-2 when it's working, as the central one of the three will push up with Soldado and Paulinho will fill the role as the central part of the three.

That's why we all need to ignore how Sky Sports lays out the team before matches - it means nothing.

You might be right, but it feels like a 4-2-3-1 most of the time when you watch the game, which suggests that we haven't got the right players in the right positions yet. Paulinho and Dembele sit too deep for my liking, and I think AVB encourages that mindset. But we could be just a couple of players away from it all clicking - we haven't really seen what Capoue will do in that position, for example.

And I do ignore the little Sky diagram, as you suggest.
 
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I thought we looked pretty good attacking at times yesterday, we moved the ball pretty fast, came into advanced attacking positions, but we lack that last incisive pass or initiative too often (that both Siggy and Kane showed on their goals). We just get stuck around the 16-yard box, have no clue what to do when we get there, it seems. As opposed to Hull, who looked like they would create something dangerous everytime they got near our 16-yard box. I'm not really sure what it is, as we at times yesterday had a whole bunch of players in and around the box.
 
As I said earlier, I don't think there is a genuine belief that we are going to score with every attack. We are just going through the motions at times. But looking a little closer, I think it is often just a numbers game. We wonder why the likes of Arsenal and Chelsea don't struggle to score even though teams are camped in their own area.

Well let's look at a few examples here of yesterdays game with Chelsea and us.

I think the full backs of late have not done enough to overload the flanks giving us a chance to change the angle of attack and get to the byline. We can see here:

10533132995_a8e9c87ba9.jpg


Andros is doing what he does, driving at the opposition. Here we don't have Walker up in support on the outside, and Lewis is drifting in too. And for me Soldado is also perhaps a little too easy to mark here. He likes to look for the little give and go's. Occasionally it might be better to hang off the last defender and get on his blind side so he doesn't know where he is. Ok so this is a counter attack, but part of the problem is we are so eager to get at them, particularly Andros that we don't wait for that support to arrive. I don't think we get enough numbers into the box either.

Let's look at a Chelsea example v City:
10533134446_b48c153bfc.jpg


So Ivanovic and Shurrle are both on the flank so they can work a good position. But look how many numbers they have in the box. And better still, look at the positions they take up. In between the lines and off the shoulder of their man. It already looks like a dangerous situation.

And it's something the constantly do well. Here's another example:

10533136556_fe6f4b239c.jpg



When we do get wide and in similar positions up the pitch look at our forwards in the box. Soldado's position looks good but Defoe and Eriksen could push up here. Hull would struggle to deal with that many numbers in the box.

10533170164_a7ba8d8e13.jpg


Here's another example:
10533131055_12d3ae8fb8.jpg


Two men in the box, this looks better. But there needs to be a genuine belief from Soldado and Defoe that they will get on the end of the cross. Perhaps they aren't confident that ball will be delivered by Townsend here. (This is actually where he crashed into the boards).

Here's the pen incident. At least we have two in the box and a few lurking behind. I think Eriksen should be a little further forward or perhaps off the shoulder of the last man.

10533365793_a13d9eacc0.jpg



I think as long as we do get numbers in the box, and Paulinho is good at doing this, timing his runs and making it 2 or 3 in the box, then we need some composure and quality to pick out a man.

Far too often I feel we labour yet don't commit enough into the box or there isn't a genuine belief of those in the box that they will get on the end of a cross or if the cross is even coming. Or we have been too narrow. The full backs are absolutely key to this.

100% agree. Have said so many times in the past. One sees other teams players bust a gut to get forward and add support in the box. Can't think of many examples of our players doing this.

Also, the first 5 minutes is often key. We should start at a fast tempo, close down high up the pitch, try to exert early pressure and hopefully score. This would change the entire complexion of home games. It was the template against Inter last season, so it can be done.
 
You might be right, but it feels like a 4-2-3-1 most of the time when you watch the game, which suggests that we haven't got the right players in the right positions yet. Paulinho and Dembele sit too deep for my liking, and I think AVB encourages that mindset. But we could be just a couple of players away from it all clicking - we haven't really seen what Capoue will do in that position, for example.

And I do ignore the little Sky diagram, as you suggest.

I've seen this suggestion crop up a few times now, and it perplexes me - I think Paulinho is one of the most attacking central midfielders in the league! He's constantly getting in and around the box, and Townsend is the only Spurs player who has had more shots than him per game.
 
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I asked the question before, but no-one really responded; isn't the main problem that we just don't have as many (proven quality) creative players as the other top teams?
 
I asked the question before, but no-one really responded; isn't the main problem that we just don't have as many (proven quality) creative players as the other top teams?

How would you address this with our current squad? Or would you buy better creative players?
 
I asked the question before, but no-one really responded; isn't the main problem that we just don't have as many (proven quality) creative players as the other top teams?

So, is that £100m plus up the swanney then, in your opinion?
 
So, is that £100m plus up the swanney then, in your opinion?

a) I don't think it's up the swanney, but I do think Lamela, Soldado, and Paulinho weren't the great value that we're accustomed to over recent years.

b) Much of that £100m worth of talent hasn't been playing regularly, to varying degrees.

c) A lot of that £100m was spent on young and / or foreign players, who may take time before we see the best of them.
 
How would you address this with our current squad? Or would you buy better creative players?

I think we have to be patient with Lamela and Eriksen, who from what I've heard have the potential to be top quality creative players.

I think we have to be patient with Soldado, who I think could have taken more of the chances he's had (given that that's what he apparently excels at).

I think the coaching team have to try and develop Townsend's ability / inclination to look for passes and one-twos from the edge of the box, rather than always shooting.

I think Capoue should be a mainstay in the team, as I think he is a better passer from deep than the rest of our quartet.
 
Play Eriksen deeper and axe one of the Jenases in our midfield

Home:
........................Soldado................
Sigurdsson..........Lamela...........Townsend
..............Eriksen...........Sandro..............

Away:
........................Soldado................
Sigurdsson..........Eriksen...........Townsend
..............Paulinho...........Sandro..............

?
 
Home:
........................Soldado................
Sigurdsson..........Lamela...........Townsend
..............Eriksen...........Sandro..............

Away:
........................Soldado................
Sigurdsson..........Eriksen...........Townsend
..............Paulinho...........Sandro..............

?

If Eriksen is taking time to adapt to the English game, switching his position between home and away games is hardly going to help.
 
If Eriksen is taking time to adapt to the English game, switching his position between home and away games is hardly going to help.

dont see how it'd make a difference. you adapt to the english game by playing the english game.
 
dont see how it'd make a difference. you adapt to the english game by playing the english game.

But adapting to two positions at the same time is not going to make that any easier. He would have to learn two sets of moves during passages of play and he would have less chances to form parternships with the players immediately around him in each position.
 
But adapting to two positions at the same time is not going to make that any easier. He would have to learn two sets of moves during passages of play and he would have less chances to form parternships with the players immediately around him in each position.

I personally think if he played deeper, he'd get a better understanding, with his deeper position on the pitch he could have a better look at how everything goes on. I can't wait to see how Eriksen or even Holtby does in central midfield and I hope in them games where Paulinho/Sandro need resting we partner one with either Dembele or Capoue.
 
I personally think if he played deeper, he'd get a better understanding, with his deeper position on the pitch he could have a better look at how everything goes on. I can't wait to see how Eriksen or even Holtby does in central midfield and I hope in them games where Paulinho/Sandro need resting we partner one with either Dembele or Capoue.

My point was not which position was best for him but that settling into two positions at the same time is going to be harder than settling into one. If he is key to our success this season, then successfully introducing him into the team should be a priority and we should not make it harder than we need to.
 
Where is it going right would be a better question.
Harry might be the answer.

Townsend, Sig, Lennon is fit again, we are not overly reliant on one player, we have signed good new players even if they are not playing to their full ability yet, we are winning games in spite of the performances...
 
I asked the question before, but no-one really responded; isn't the main problem that we just don't have as many (proven quality) creative players as the other top teams?

The problems are (i) that we lack creativity in CM and (ii) our wide men play too wide and leave Soldado isolated
 
Townsend, Sig, Lennon is fit again, we are not overly reliant on one player, we have signed good new players even if they are not playing to their full ability yet, we are winning games in spite of the performances...

We are.
 
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