Im looking forward to the next run of games and how we cope against more attack minded teams
-
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Where is it going wrong in attack?
- Thread starter SUIYHA
- Start date
Im looking forward to the next run of games and how we cope against more attack minded teams
I think we can handle them defensively, it'll be whether we can score that'll be interesting. I have no wories about scoring against Everton or Saudi Sportswashing Machine but the Mancs will be tough.
I
indianspur
Guest
last night emphasised again that once the opposition score against us we struggle to come up with a response in terms of upping the tempo, having a plan b.
the way we play at 0-0 or 1-0 seems very much ingrained into the players, lots of possession and probing and waiting for the right opportunity to score. A goal against and all of a sudden the players do appear lost, confidence seems to disappear. Its like they are shocked that the opposition dared to score against us. Its so unexpected to them.
mental?tactical preparation? both?
the way we play at 0-0 or 1-0 seems very much ingrained into the players, lots of possession and probing and waiting for the right opportunity to score. A goal against and all of a sudden the players do appear lost, confidence seems to disappear. Its like they are shocked that the opposition dared to score against us. Its so unexpected to them.
mental?tactical preparation? both?
Lemonade Money
Luka Modric
This. Don't managers always talk about building a team from the defence up? A good defence is the foundation to build on. One of the reasons Wenger did so well when he arrived, Graham had done that job for him.
Modric THFC
Jimmy McCormick
The issue simply is our central midfield.
They don't create.
And last night when Hull attacked Hull controlled the centre of the pitch.
Paulinho and Dembele aren't good enough at winning the ball back neither. That's why we frequently look better with Sandro in there.
They only work as a defensive screen when teams sit back.
I
indianspur
Guest
Dembele is good at winning the ball back
both Dembele and Paulinho were poor last night. I do think they are shattered though, they have played a lot of minutes so far this season because of Sandro's ongoing recovery process and Capoue unfortunately being out
Capoue being back is so important and I cant wait to see more of him
im not sure the two central midfielders are expected to create. That will have to be the job of the 3 attackers ahead of them. Eriksen, lamela, Siggy, Holtby, and Townsend will have to fathom out ways to break down the opposition.
glorygloryeze
Les Medley
I like to see more detaild replies to this question (Thanks Modric THFC btw...)
ringo
Tim Sherwood
I think parking the bus is a factor but only one of several.
To analyse the problem properly though we would need AVB to answer some questions:
1. Which players or positions do you expect to score goals for us? And in what order of importance in terms of goal contribution?
2. How are you setting up the team in order to make that happen?
Because I don't understand how two DMs and slow build up play, with an emphasis on ball retention over speed of attack, fits with having 4-2-3-1 with one small striker who scores most of his goals from inside the box. It is far too easy to mark him out of the game. And if he is not scoring a high proportion of our goals -who is.
Assuming Soldado is meant to be a main goalscorer we should set the team up in way which gives him the most ball in the box -and therefore the most chance of scoring.
I
indianspur
Guest
4-1-3-2.....Soldado needs a strike partner. Ade or Kane will do atm
ringo
Tim Sherwood
Definitely worth a try. Key position is the middle of the 3. As they need to make sure we don't get overrun in midfield,while linking with the 2.
I prefer: 4-1-4-1
x----x---x-----x
--------x------
-x---x---x-----x
--------x----
where the two in the middle join with the DM or the forward as required. That way we are never overloaded in midfield, but we still support Soldado
SteveAWOL
Gary Stevens
FWIW here's how we have fared against teams in the bottom half of the league, compared to the rest of the Top 7, since AVB became our manager... :-k
[table="width: 500, class: grid"]
[tr]
[td][/td]
[td]Played[/td]
[td]Won[/td]
[td]Drawn[/td]
[td]Lost[/td]
[td]Clean Sheets[/td]
[td]Failed To Score[/td]
[td]Goals For[/td]
[td]Goals Against[/td]
[td]Goal Diff[/td]
[td]Points[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]ManU[/td]
[td]24[/td]
[td]22[/td]
[td]0[/td]
[td]2[/td]
[td]11[/td]
[td]1[/td]
[td]62[/td]
[td]23[/td]
[td]+39[/td]
[td]66[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]L'ARSEnal[/td]
[td]27[/td]
[td]19[/td]
[td]6[/td]
[td]2[/td]
[td]11[/td]
[td]4[/td]
[td]59[/td]
[td]23[/td]
[td]+36[/td]
[td]63[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Liverpool[/td]
[td]26[/td]
[td]18[/td]
[td]5[/td]
[td]3[/td]
[td]14[/td]
[td]2[/td]
[td]60[/td]
[td]20[/td]
[td]+40[/td]
[td]59[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Chavs[/td]
[td]24[/td]
[td]17[/td]
[td]4[/td]
[td]3[/td]
[td]10[/td]
[td]3[/td]
[td]58[/td]
[td]20[/td]
[td]+38[/td]
[td]55[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Emirates Marketing Project[/td]
[td]25[/td]
[td]17[/td]
[td]3[/td]
[td]5[/td]
[td]13[/td]
[td]3[/td]
[td]54[/td]
[td]23[/td]
[td]+31[/td]
[td]54[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Spurs[/td]
[td]25[/td]
[td]16[/td]
[td]5[/td]
[td]4[/td]
[td]11[/td]
[td]5[/td]
[td]38[/td]
[td]18[/td]
[td]+20[/td]
[td]53[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Everton[/td]
[td]26[/td]
[td]12[/td]
[td]11[/td]
[td]3[/td]
[td]7[/td]
[td]4[/td]
[td]43[/td]
[td]29[/td]
[td]+14[/td]
[td]47[/td]
[/tr]
[/table]
http://www.statto.com/football/stats/england/premier-league/2012-2013/versus-bottom-half/full
Shows how Manu won the league ..
ringo
Tim Sherwood
SteveAWOL
Gary Stevens
If it wasn't for that 1-0 loss at Carrow Road last November they would've had a perfect record of 20-0-0 against the bottom 10 clubs last season!
Goals for-- (not adequately compensated for by good goals against stat.)
Indeed, does go to show that we have struggled to score more than any of our peers against the teams we are expected to beat and not really keeping that many more clean sheets either.
Last edited:
I
indianspur
Guest
and imagine how many of those sides tried to park the bus against Utd. Made no difference though did it
I am amazed by the level of discontent on this board.
We have won nearly every game we were expected to, many of which with clean sheets.
I am not sure how anyone thinks that having made drastic alterations not only to the personnel in our midfield and attack, but the system used as well, barely 2 months into the season we are magically going to be pasting teams all over the place. That we are 4th in the league and winning games in all competitions should be enough.
Not only is the season still in its infancy, but we have played many different players in the positions that really matter in terms of creating and scoring goals - the trio behind the striker. Once we start to see partnerships flourishing and a cohesive first choice trio the goals will come.
That's without mentioning the adaptation time for all of our foreign imports. Do you really think we have seen all that £27m Erik Lamela has to offer? Soldado? Chadli? Townsend is improving by the day. Even Eriksen will not be used to the Premier League, and he, like many of these players, is nowhere near the finished article either.
I am going to give it a good few months yet before being sucked into kneejerk despair at us... winning games :-k
We have won nearly every game we were expected to, many of which with clean sheets.
I am not sure how anyone thinks that having made drastic alterations not only to the personnel in our midfield and attack, but the system used as well, barely 2 months into the season we are magically going to be pasting teams all over the place. That we are 4th in the league and winning games in all competitions should be enough.
Not only is the season still in its infancy, but we have played many different players in the positions that really matter in terms of creating and scoring goals - the trio behind the striker. Once we start to see partnerships flourishing and a cohesive first choice trio the goals will come.
That's without mentioning the adaptation time for all of our foreign imports. Do you really think we have seen all that £27m Erik Lamela has to offer? Soldado? Chadli? Townsend is improving by the day. Even Eriksen will not be used to the Premier League, and he, like many of these players, is nowhere near the finished article either.
I am going to give it a good few months yet before being sucked into kneejerk despair at us... winning games :-k
SteveAWOL
Gary Stevens
And here's our home record against teams in the bottom half of the league, compared to the rest of the Top 7, since AVB became our manager... 
Hopefully things improve once our new recruits bed in... [-o<
[table="width: 500, class: grid"]
[tr]
[td][/td]
[td]Played[/td]
[td]Won[/td]
[td]Drawn[/td]
[td]Lost[/td]
[td]Clean Sheets[/td]
[td]Failed To Score[/td]
[td]Goals For[/td]
[td]Goals Against[/td]
[td]Goal Diff[/td]
[td]Points[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]ManU[/td]
[td]13[/td]
[td]12[/td]
[td]0[/td]
[td]1[/td]
[td]5[/td]
[td]0[/td]
[td]36[/td]
[td]14[/td]
[td]+22[/td]
[td]36[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Chavs[/td]
[td]13[/td]
[td]10[/td]
[td]2[/td]
[td]1[/td]
[td]5[/td]
[td]2[/td]
[td]35[/td]
[td]10[/td]
[td]+25[/td]
[td]32[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]L'ARSEnal[/td]
[td]13[/td]
[td]10[/td]
[td]2[/td]
[td]1[/td]
[td]3[/td]
[td]1[/td]
[td]39[/td]
[td]16[/td]
[td]+23[/td]
[td]32[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Liverpool[/td]
[td]13[/td]
[td]10[/td]
[td]2[/td]
[td]1[/td]
[td]9[/td]
[td]1[/td]
[td]28[/td]
[td]6[/td]
[td]+22[/td]
[td]32[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Emirates Marketing Project[/td]
[td]11[/td]
[td]10[/td]
[td]0[/td]
[td]1[/td]
[td]8[/td]
[td]0[/td]
[td]31[/td]
[td]6[/td]
[td]+25[/td]
[td]30[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Everton[/td]
[td]12[/td]
[td]8[/td]
[td]4[/td]
[td]0[/td]
[td]4[/td]
[td]1[/td]
[td]23[/td]
[td]12[/td]
[td]+11[/td]
[td]28[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Spurs[/td]
[td]12[/td]
[td]7[/td]
[td]2[/td]
[td]3[/td]
[td]5[/td]
[td]4[/td]
[td]14[/td]
[td]9[/td]
[td]+5[/td]
[td]23[/td]
[/tr]
[/table]http://www.statto.com/football/stats/england/premier-league/2012-2013/versus-bottom-half/home
Hopefully things improve once our new recruits bed in... [-o<[table="width: 500, class: grid"]
[tr]
[td][/td]
[td]Played[/td]
[td]Won[/td]
[td]Drawn[/td]
[td]Lost[/td]
[td]Clean Sheets[/td]
[td]Failed To Score[/td]
[td]Goals For[/td]
[td]Goals Against[/td]
[td]Goal Diff[/td]
[td]Points[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]ManU[/td]
[td]13[/td]
[td]12[/td]
[td]0[/td]
[td]1[/td]
[td]5[/td]
[td]0[/td]
[td]36[/td]
[td]14[/td]
[td]+22[/td]
[td]36[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Chavs[/td]
[td]13[/td]
[td]10[/td]
[td]2[/td]
[td]1[/td]
[td]5[/td]
[td]2[/td]
[td]35[/td]
[td]10[/td]
[td]+25[/td]
[td]32[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]L'ARSEnal[/td]
[td]13[/td]
[td]10[/td]
[td]2[/td]
[td]1[/td]
[td]3[/td]
[td]1[/td]
[td]39[/td]
[td]16[/td]
[td]+23[/td]
[td]32[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Liverpool[/td]
[td]13[/td]
[td]10[/td]
[td]2[/td]
[td]1[/td]
[td]9[/td]
[td]1[/td]
[td]28[/td]
[td]6[/td]
[td]+22[/td]
[td]32[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Emirates Marketing Project[/td]
[td]11[/td]
[td]10[/td]
[td]0[/td]
[td]1[/td]
[td]8[/td]
[td]0[/td]
[td]31[/td]
[td]6[/td]
[td]+25[/td]
[td]30[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Everton[/td]
[td]12[/td]
[td]8[/td]
[td]4[/td]
[td]0[/td]
[td]4[/td]
[td]1[/td]
[td]23[/td]
[td]12[/td]
[td]+11[/td]
[td]28[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Spurs[/td]
[td]12[/td]
[td]7[/td]
[td]2[/td]
[td]3[/td]
[td]5[/td]
[td]4[/td]
[td]14[/td]
[td]9[/td]
[td]+5[/td]
[td]23[/td]
[/tr]
[/table]http://www.statto.com/football/stats/england/premier-league/2012-2013/versus-bottom-half/home
Modric THFC
Jimmy McCormick
In fairness last night. We were set up to play against a defensive team sitting deep with Lamela, Siggy and Eriksen all linking up on the edge of the box. And we played really well until the Hull sub.
When Hull attacked, if we had Lennon and Townsend playing we would have destroyed them on the counter.
When Hull attacked, if we had Lennon and Townsend playing we would have destroyed them on the counter.
I'm pretty sure that's exactly what we're already playing.
What you've posted is like a 4-2-3-1 with one of the two being quite attack minded - like Paulinho.
You could almost call it a 4-1-3-2 when it's working, as the central one of the three will push up with Soldado and Paulinho will fill the role as the central part of the three.
That's why we all need to ignore how Sky Sports lays out the team before matches - it means nothing.
Hootnow
Jermaine Jenas
And here's our home record against teams in the bottom half of the league, compared to the rest of the Top 7, since AVB became our manager...
[table="width: 500, class: grid"]
[tr]
[td][/td]
[td]Played[/td]
[td]Won[/td]
[td]Drawn[/td]
[td]Lost[/td]
[td]Clean Sheets[/td]
[td]Failed To Score[/td]
[td]Goals For[/td]
[td]Goals Against[/td]
[td]Goal Diff[/td]
[td]Points[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]ManU[/td]
[td]13[/td]
[td]12[/td]
[td]0[/td]
[td]1[/td]
[td]5[/td]
[td]0[/td]
[td]36[/td]
[td]14[/td]
[td]+22[/td]
[td]36[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Chavs[/td]
[td]13[/td]
[td]10[/td]
[td]2[/td]
[td]1[/td]
[td]5[/td]
[td]2[/td]
[td]35[/td]
[td]10[/td]
[td]+25[/td]
[td]32[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]L'ARSEnal[/td]
[td]13[/td]
[td]10[/td]
[td]2[/td]
[td]1[/td]
[td]3[/td]
[td]1[/td]
[td]39[/td]
[td]16[/td]
[td]+23[/td]
[td]32[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Liverpool[/td]
[td]13[/td]
[td]10[/td]
[td]2[/td]
[td]1[/td]
[td]9[/td]
[td]1[/td]
[td]28[/td]
[td]6[/td]
[td]+22[/td]
[td]32[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Emirates Marketing Project[/td]
[td]11[/td]
[td]10[/td]
[td]0[/td]
[td]1[/td]
[td]8[/td]
[td]0[/td]
[td]31[/td]
[td]6[/td]
[td]+25[/td]
[td]30[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Everton[/td]
[td]12[/td]
[td]8[/td]
[td]4[/td]
[td]0[/td]
[td]4[/td]
[td]1[/td]
[td]23[/td]
[td]12[/td]
[td]+11[/td]
[td]28[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Spurs[/td]
[td]12[/td]
[td]7[/td]
[td]2[/td]
[td]3[/td]
[td]5[/td]
[td]4[/td]
[td]14[/td]
[td]9[/td]
[td]+5[/td]
[td]23[/td]
[/tr]
[/table]http://www.statto.com/football/stats/england/premier-league/2012-2013/versus-bottom-half/home
Both of these tables are rather distressing.