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Welcome Ange: To Dare is to Didgeridoo

Robspur12 said:
He didn't change the way we defended though. Our attack created chances in the 1st half.
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I think, respectfully, you know exactly what I mean. He changed formation. The nature of our first-half defending was poor, but both the first and second goals are (IMO) exactly down to shifting things around. That, plus poor control of the ball obviously.
 
5 points in 10 games, and presently sat in 15th place. Forget the injuries, our starting team was far better than Everton's yet we were 3-0 down at half time. This manager is totally out of his depth and looks like a rabbit in the head lights. For crying out live Levy sack this man
 
veryoldspur said:
5 points in 8 games, and we just lost lost against a poor Everton side. Can anyone really tell me the players we had out there today aren't better than theirs? We lost because of stupid naive tactics. Surely anyone can see this manager isn't up to it
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The players we had out there yesterday are not better than theirs no..... Many of the players we had out there yesterday are also massively more fatigued than Everton's.

We have some players in the team yesterday that in a few years' time will likely be better than the players Everton had out there (Gray, Bergvall and perhaps Kinksky) but at present they're not there yet.
 
Finney Is Back said:
The players we had out there yesterday are not better than theirs no..... Many of the players we had out there yesterday are also massively more fatigued than Everton's.

We have some players in the team yesterday that in a few years' time will likely be better than the players Everton had out there (Gray, Bergvall and perhaps Kinksky) but at present they're not there yet.
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What about Spence? what about Kulusevski? Maddison? What about our new back-up GK?
I bet Moyes would take any of those guys.

Come on - i know we agree that there are deep-lying problems that lie elsewhere at the club, but let's not bend over backwards to totally absolve the poor tactics/preparation of Ange here FFS
 
glorygloryeze said:
What about Spence? what about Kulusevski? Maddison? What about our new back-up GK?
I bet Moyes would take any of those guys.

Come on - i know we agree that there are deep-lying problems that lie elsewhere at the club, but let's not bend over backwards to totally absolve the poor tactics/preparation of Ange here FFS
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Moyes would take all of those players into his squad I'm sure. However the likes of Pickford, Braithwaite, Tarkowski, Gueye, Calvert-Lewin, Mangala and Mykolenko would all likely have started for us yesterday.

Was Spence a better left back yesterday than Mykolenko? I don't think he was no. I think Spence would've been a better right back than O'Brien but we're forced into playing a really fatigued Porro on the right because we don't have anyone capable of playing in a similar way to Udogie on the left other than Spence (who is limited by being right footed).

Kulusevski - yes he would've started for Everton yesterday, though I'm not sure if you've noticed how he can now barely run due to playing so many minutes this season.

Maddison or Doucoure? Maddison.

The back-up GK? Lol, there is no way any manager in the premier league would pick him over Pickford.

The key for me is that pretty much throughout the spine of the two teams yesterday (where games tend to be won and lost) you'd typically be picking the players Everton had out over the ones that Spurs were playing. Ignore the future and how 'promising' players are just consider the here and now. We do not have a particularly impressive bunch to choose from right now and that is compounded by an incredible amount of fatigue in some of our experienced players.
 
Finney Is Back said:
The players we had out there yesterday are not better than theirs no..... Many of the players we had out there yesterday are also massively more fatigued than Everton's.

We have some players in the team yesterday that in a few years' time will likely be better than the players Everton had out there (Gray, Bergvall and perhaps Kinksky) but at present they're not there yet.
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I hear you on the argument that our players are not necessarily better I would counter and say you don't always have to have the better players to get a result. Whereas with Ange it seems like he has to have the better players and a 100% fully fit and functioning squad to get a result.

We didn't even draw, we got pummeled, so yes the squad quality is an issue but Ange isn't hitting par with his performances. He's several strokes over par.
 
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Finney Is Back said:
Moyes would take all of those players into his squad I'm sure. However the likes of Pickford, Braithwaite, Tarkowski, Gueye, Calvert-Lewin, Mangala and Mykolenko would all likely have started for us yesterday.

Was Spence a better left back yesterday than Mykolenko? I don't think he was no. I think Spence would've been a better right back than O'Brien but we're forced into playing a really fatigued Porro on the right because we don't have anyone capable of playing in a similar way to Udogie on the left other than Spence (who is limited by being right footed).

Kulusevski - yes he would've started for Everton yesterday, though I'm not sure if you've noticed how he can now barely run due to playing so many minutes this season.

Maddison or Doucoure? Maddison.

The back-up GK? Lol, there is no way any manager in the premier league would pick him over Pickford.

The key for me is that pretty much throughout the spine of the two teams yesterday (where games tend to be won and lost) you'd typically be picking the players Everton had out over the ones that Spurs were playing. Ignore the future and how 'promising' players are just consider the here and now. We do not have a particularly impressive bunch to choose from right now and that is compounded by an incredible amount of fatigue in some of our experienced players.
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Ok then. As things stand, would you prefer Moyes to Ange as a coach of the currently available squad?
 
With the way a lot of the reports are worded about Levy backing him, it seems he has 2 games to turn it around or he is gone.
 
Finney Is Back said:
Suspect Levy will sack him after the transfer window closes so he has an excuse not to strengthen the team ;)
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Either that or he'll wring him dry and stumble to a bottom half finish, and when he sacks him, say they did all they could to let him work through it. Levy's in a relative win win right now; if Ange turns it around, Daniel stuck by him. If Ange largely fails, Daniel gave him every chance. I am not saying he planned it this way, however the cards have fallen that way..:
 
Finney Is Back said:
Moyes would take all of those players into his squad I'm sure. However the likes of Pickford, Braithwaite, Tarkowski, Gueye, Calvert-Lewin, Mangala and Mykolenko would all likely have started for us yesterday.

Was Spence a better left back yesterday than Mykolenko? I don't think he was no. I think Spence would've been a better right back than O'Brien but we're forced into playing a really fatigued Porro on the right because we don't have anyone capable of playing in a similar way to Udogie on the left other than Spence (who is limited by being right footed).

Kulusevski - yes he would've started for Everton yesterday, though I'm not sure if you've noticed how he can now barely run due to playing so many minutes this season.

Maddison or Doucoure? Maddison.

The back-up GK? Lol, there is no way any manager in the premier league would pick him over Pickford.

The key for me is that pretty much throughout the spine of the two teams yesterday (where games tend to be won and lost) you'd typically be picking the players Everton had out over the ones that Spurs were playing. Ignore the future and how 'promising' players are just consider the here and now. We do not have a particularly impressive bunch to choose from right now and that is compounded by an incredible amount of fatigue in some of our experienced players.
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What's changed over the years? Why is 2 games a week too much effort for a footballer who doesn't hold down a job? These are young very fit men and asking them to run around three hours a week surely isn't too much to ask
 
thfcsteff said:
Either that or he'll wring him dry and stumble to a bottom half finish, and when he sacks him, say they did all they could to let him work through it. Levy's in a relative win win right now; if Ange turns it around, Daniel stuck by him. If Ange largely fails, Daniel gave him every chance. I am not saying he planned it this way, however the cards have fallen that way..:
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I think the club have been very fair with Ange. The hiring and firing question really comes down to questions like these:

1) Do the club feel that the squad will always be under a continuous state of injuries under Ange due to his methodologies?

2) Will Ange's tactics bring consistency on the pitch and eventually bring CL football and other trophies? Would Ange's tactics work even with a fully fit squad and more transfers?

3) Is Ange adapting his management quick enough from his prior experiences to what is required in the PL?

4) Is Ange capable of participating and leading some areas of the huge cultural shift required within the club.

I can see why an earlier argument would have been about him playing good football and being so much nicer than the prior incumbents. For some, that was a reason not to fire the gun. What we needed was 2-3 years of consistency with the manager. Perhaps that is a factor.

When I look at my own questions, I have huge concerns about Ange and 1. No smoke without fire there. No individual injury is down to the manager but there have been so many red zone injuries. I could also deep dive 2 and 3 and it wouldn't be that favourable for Ange on the defensive side. The goals for column is massively encouraging though. As for 4, I think this is where he is perhaps strongest. To me, he does talk absolute nonsense at times, but if I can even remember being in that 18-25 age range I'm sure I would see it differently and believe.

I do think he can save his job in the next couple of weeks, but that would mean punting some underlying faults with the guy down the road.
 
thfcsteff said:
Either that or he'll wring him dry and stumble to a bottom half finish, and when he sacks him, say they did all they could to let him work through it. Levy's in a relative win win right now; if Ange turns it around, Daniel stuck by him. If Ange largely fails, Daniel gave him every chance. I am not saying he planned it this way, however the cards have fallen that way..:
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I agree that it's a difficult situation. By now Levy would have realised that Ange is totally useless, however he would struggle to find a decent manager that would join us, and he surely remembers the flack he got when he sacked Jose before a cup final. I therefore suspect he is safe until Liverpool trounce us in a few weeks.
 
Muttley said:
I can see why an earlier argument would have been about him playing good football and being so much nicer than the prior incumbents. For some, that was a reason not to fire the gun. What we needed was 2-3 years of consistency with the manager. Perhaps that is a factor.
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It's strange you say that, I find him to be arrogant and thoroughly unlikeable
 
veryoldspur said:
I agree that it's a difficult situation. By now Levy would have realised that Ange is totally useless, however he would struggle to find a decent manager that would join us, and he surely remembers the flack he got when he sacked Jose before a cup final. I therefore suspect he is safe until Liverpool trounce us in a few weeks.
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Or the praise from fans like me for kicking the narcissist out of my club. My criticism of Levy was not doing it earlier.

Saying that Jose should have stayed for the cup final was always going to be a cheap dig at Levy.
 
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