Welcome Ange: To Dare is to Didgeridoo

[Finney Is Back]

As i've said, i can seperate out the poor performance of Ange from the ongoing way our club is run. We can get rid of Ange but we will still have to same issues long-term: i.e. a board who are not very ambitious on the football whom will likely have to employ someone similar (and 'back' in a similar way and on the cycle we go..)

Which is one of the reasons I don't want Ange to be sacked. The problem at our club is what leads to him being 'chosen' as our manager in the first place. The same problem will still exist when he gets sacked. One of the things that I really admire about Ange is that he is one of the few managers out there who would be prepared to manage Spurs and be prepared to accept short term pain for long term gain (small, young, squad on low wages).

If we go again we're unlikely to attract anyone particularly good, we're also incredibly unlikely to give them the time and money to make a go of things. That manager is also unlikely to look long term (especially seeing what happens when a manager does that)

Sacking the manager just lets Levy hoodwink the fan base and buy 18 months of peace for him and Lewis. It is precisely why I full expect Ange to get sacked reasonably soon (as soon as the Levy/ENIC out stuff ratchets up a notch or two).

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

we're 6 points away from 5th - looking at the games we've dropped points in and the performances that have gone along with them i think we could easily be around that position if the manager was doing a competent job and if we were in that position then I'd be more than happy with the overall progress being made on & off the field, assuming that performances & bedding in of tactics were also further along.

The managers poor performance to date is the real problem.

Same as where I'm at, the are the average managers in the league who would and should have us around 5th.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

We made huge, brave, possibly stupid calls this summer with the squad
Personally I loved it because I see the plan (maybe naively) but I also thought we couldn’t have injuries like last year (how wrong was I)
So as I’m on gardening leave I thought I’d see the numbers of the transfers (not values as they are always debateable)

Players in, and age and experience in games played at the time we signed them
Solanke 270 games at 26
Gray 44 games at 18
Odobert 66 games at 19
Bergvall 47 games at 18
Yang 38;games at 18
average is 93 games Age avg is 19.8

Players out, who played for Ange at least once and again, age and games played in senior football
Skipp 156 games at 23
Royal 231 games at 25
Rodon 170 games at 26
Lo Celso 313 games at 28
Dier 432 games at 30
Sessegnon 206 games at 24
NDombele 301 games at 26
Perisic 611 games at 35
Tanganga 68 games at 25
Hojbjerg - loan technically 434 games at 28
2922 games total and and average of 292 games per player Average age is 27

Loans out who played for Ange last season
Gil Veliz
Solomon Scarlett

Other notable loans as these are players who could theoretically play for Ange
Devine Philips
Donley Keeley
Vuskovic

We can debate all day who replaces who and the merits of loaning out certain players
What’s clear is we gambled and rolled the dice in on youth over experience when we need experience right now
That has to be addressed in the next 2 windows as we all know we are light in the depth but how do you do that and not make room for the younger guys to come in. I have this weird idea (I think I saw it on a football documentary) where every position in the team had names in it with their back and successor almost like chess pieces, and the transfer targets that fitted the role too. Sounds kinda bond villian esque

I don’t know how we fix it other than doing the buying and trading we need to do but that needs windows and time and money

 

[Finney Is Back]

Re the manager's "poor performance", the Board's perspective on our performance will be heavily influenced by data. Just started reading "How to win the Premier League" by a guy who worked for Decision Technology, (contracted to Spurs by Damien Comolli) before being head hunted by FSG to work for Liverpool. It's essential reading - and if and when a decision is made to replace Ange, it will be because the stats show that the team is underperforming, not because we are in the bottom half of the league or the fans are fed up.

And how do companies stop really good people from leaving when they are head hunted?

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Same as where I'm at, the are the average managers in the league who would and should have us around 5th.

For now
But would we stay there long term would it be sustainable and would it crumble at the first sign of an issue
We don’t know
By the way, I agree we should be higher in the table and I do think Ange has mismanaged the squad rotation

 

[Finney Is Back]

Same as where I'm at, the are the average managers in the league who would and should have us around 5th.

We had Nuno already..... and then sacked him.

 

[DeanoAustin]

100%, the stadium was supposedly aimed to address the gap but in reality all we have done is keep up with the status quo.

A healthy profitable company is more likely to get an offer higher than its real value and I think that’s always been Levy’s plan.

The model in my opinion has always been don’t get relegated, try to get the most out of player sales and purchases, without eating into finances. Build the best infrastructure possible and attract a buyer who will pay over the odds for a turn key business.

Don’t blame him as you only live once but like I’ve said before he’s gone stale and can’t keep flogging a dead horse to the fans in terms of actually pushing the boat out and genuinely trying to win.

Shake my hand and all the best Danny you have done really well to get us this far but the next step is beyond your capabilities.

I would wholeheartedly agree with this if we know what the alternative is. Not just anybody is a better alternative to Levy and ENIC. There are lots of potential owners who would be worse than Levy. Just look at clubs like Everton and Man U.

 

[Finney Is Back]

We made huge, brave, possibly stupid calls this summer with the squad
Personally I loved it because I see the plan (maybe naively) but I also thought we couldn’t have injuries like last year (how wrong was I)
So as I’m on gardening leave I thought I’d see the numbers of the transfers (not values as they are always debateable)

Players in, and age and experience in games played at the time we signed them
Solanke 270 games at 26
Gray 44 games at 18
Odobert 66 games at 19
Bergvall 47 games at 18
Yang 38;games at 18
average is 93 games Age avg is 19.8

Players out, who played for Ange at least once and again, age and games played in senior football
Skipp 156 games at 23
Royal 231 games at 25
Rodon 170 games at 26
Lo Celso 313 games at 28
Dier 432 games at 30
Sessegnon 206 games at 24
NDombele 301 games at 26
Perisic 611 games at 35
Tanganga 68 games at 25
Hojbjerg - loan technically 434 games at 28
2922 games total and and average of 292 games per player Average age is 27

Loans out who played for Ange last season
Gil Veliz
Solomon Scarlett

Other notable loans as these are players who could theoretically play for Ange
Devine Philips
Donley Keeley
Vuskovic

We can debate all day who replaces who and the merits of loaning out certain players
What’s clear is we gambled and rolled the dice in on youth over experience when we need experience right now
That has to be addressed in the next 2 windows as we all know we are light in the depth but how do you do that and not make room for the younger guys to come in. I have this weird idea (I think I saw it on a football documentary) where every position in the team had names in it with their back and successor almost like chess pieces, and the transfer targets that fitted the role too. Sounds kinda bond villian esque

I don’t know how we fix it other than doing the buying and trading we need to do but that needs windows and time and money

Or we could double down. History shows us that we aren't going to do anything noteworthy by looking short term.

We could therefore continue to try to add really good young players at a similar rate over the next 3 or 4 windows, while allowing our existing talented young players to carry on developing and maybe, just maybe, actually have a team that could have a go at doing something noteworthy the season after next?

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Or we could double down. History shows us that we aren't going to do anything noteworthy by looking short term.

We could therefore continue to try to add really good young players at a similar rate over the next 3 or 4 windows, while allowing our existing talented young players to carry on developing and maybe, just maybe, actually have a team that could have a go at doing something noteworthy the season after next?

That’s the even braver call
It’s what I think we will do
I think the fans will have kittens
But if it pays off totally shows a philosophy like we see at Dortmund and RB for example
I’m not adverse to it but I have accepted that we are where we are and I go now to be entertained. That just my view of course

 

[Lemonade Money]

Same as where I'm at, the are the average managers in the league who would and should have us around 5th.

And that's the problem. We could have someone who consistently has us about 5th, but to win the league, we need to take a risk on finding the next big thing. Ange was worth the risk, and if he learns from his mistakes this season, and if we get the players in he needs this summer, there is a potentially high ceiling. Or we can swap him for someone safer, and plod along around 5th place.

 

[harr1984]

Same as where I'm at, the are the average managers in the league who would and should have us around 5th.

With Europa League football and this squad?! Nah....

 

[billyiddo]

Ok then, if we sacked Postecoglou tomorrow, how do YOU think things would pan out? What do YOU think club would do this January and in the summer?

These questions lack any context or thought/reasoning as to why they are being asked - how can you expect me to answer them?

If Postecoglou is sacked - is there a manager lined up or is it a caretaker jobby till the summer? Answer will vary depending

We'll do what any club does in the transfer window, try to bring in players to improve the team/squad - some of the players at the top of our list will come, some we will miss out on - some will be a success, others will not.

 

[glorygloryeze]

Or we could double down. History shows us that we aren't going to do anything noteworthy by looking short term.

We could therefore continue to try to add really good young players at a similar rate over the next 3 or 4 windows, while allowing our existing talented young players to carry on developing and maybe, just maybe, actually have a team that could have a go at doing something noteworthy the season after next?

If we do 'double-down' as you put it, what league finish would be acceptable this season, assuming we don't win a trophy again?

 

[Gazza]

I would wholeheartedly agree with this if we know what the alternative is. Not just anybody is a better alternative to Levy and ENIC. There are lots of potential owners who would be worse than Levy. Just look at clubs like Everton and Man U.

But but but the clubs motto is to dare is to do. You have to be brave etc … no point standing still either. The club is not going anywhere anytime soon with our current modus operandi.

Of course there is always a risk associated but if it’s a risk well managed then I think you have to go for it. I don’t think anyone is advocating a sports washing sheik or shoot from the hip American. There are some very astute rich people out there that could do a job and hungry enough to want success.

But yes I think it will take someone very smart, diligent, motivated and hungry to make this club fantastic in every aspect.

I wouldn’t sell anytime soon if I was Levy he is going to cream it in as long as we keep being somewhat relevant and maximise the profit taking from the stadium.

 

[Finney Is Back]

Same as where I'm at, the are the average managers in the league who would and should have us around 5th.

With this squad and the injuries we've suffered? Sorry but I just don't see it. We got 6th place last season after a great start. Since then we've jettisoned a host of players with experience of PL football and replaced them with some kids who may well be good in the future as well as significantly adding to the team's workload due to playing two games a week.

If we were playing one game a week then I think we'd probably be somewhere between 4th and 7th. However we don't have that luxury and we didn't do anything in the summer window to make the squad more equipped to play two games a week, in fact we did the inverse of that and made it less equipped to do so, or more pertinently to do so successfully.

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

And that's the problem. We could have someone who consistently has us about 5th, but to win the league, we need to take a risk on finding the next big thing. Ange was worth the risk, and if he learns from his mistakes this season, and if we get the players in he needs this summer, there is a potentially high ceiling. Or we can swap him for someone safer, and plod along around 5th place.

He is not going to learn. He said he never changes.

 

[Finney Is Back]

And that's the problem. We could have someone who consistently has us about 5th, but to win the league, we need to take a risk on finding the next big thing. Ange was worth the risk, and if he learns from his mistakes this season, and if we get the players in he needs this summer, there is a potentially high ceiling. Or we can swap him for someone safer, and plod along around 5th place.

I don't think we'd plod along around 5th place. There are too many teams really trying to raise the bar and spend up to (and even beyond) their financial fair play limits to do all they can to improve their football performance. Liverpool, Emirates Marketing Project, Arsenal, Chelsea, Man Utd, Aston Villa and Saudi Sportswashing Machine are all more ambitious clubs than we are in terms of what resources they will put into the football team. There are then the clever clubs who run much much better recruitment departments than us as well. Any manager that can get us consistent 5th place finishes is doing really, really well.

 

[Finney Is Back]

These questions lack any context or thought/reasoning as to why they are being asked - how can you expect me to answer them?

If Postecoglou is sacked - is there a manager lined up or is it a caretaker jobby till the summer? Answer will vary depending

We'll do what any club does in the transfer window, try to bring in players to improve the team/squad - some of the players at the top of our list will come, some we will miss out on - some will be a success, others will not.

I'll have a go at answering them. We would put Mason in charge as caretaker. We would then commence a manager search that largely plays out in public with a bunch of respected managers turning us down. Eventually, as we get more desperate, we'll offer a high enough salary for somebody to take the bait. They're unlikely to be a particularly inspiring choice though.

 

[Finney Is Back]

If we do 'double-down' as you put it, what league finish would be acceptable this season, assuming we don't win a trophy again?

It depends on when exactly we exit the Cups (especially the Europa League). If we go out of the Europa League in the next round then I think top half is fine. If we go deep in the Europa league (say to at least the semis) then just not being involved in a relegation fight is fine.

 

[glasgowspur]

We had Nuno already..... and then sacked him.

After the crowd turned on him and started chanting against him after was it three months?
Since before we moved into the new stadium all I've heard from fans is that we need a rebuild, we need to start fresh with new ideas and new personnel, it will take time but it will be worth it.
The fans talk the talk but do not want to walk the walk.
We can clear out ange, levy might sell, we can move on Richie, son, Johnson and any other players you want to mention, but at some point we the fans need to start looking at the role we play in this.