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Welcome Ange: To Dare is to Didgeridoo

Muttley said:
I genuinely don't think people watched him closely enough, apart from maybe the England supporters who didn't have the Spurs bias. They would go crazy at Harry on the terraces, especially in the the Euros at Wembley where he was an absolute disgrace. Just ask Kyle Walker who could have throttled Harry for not showing and putting in a shift. We were all glad to see a proper leader like Hendo come on the pitch.

Also remember that City fiasco was when he was 27 years old. After that slight injury in 2021, Harry never returned to full commitment even at his peak years. I was posting on another site until recently and we would discuss in games when Harry would pull out of many headers and tackles. We used to ID them and there was plenty of nodding heads on the subject. I remember at one point where he cost us 3 goals in 4 games and something like 4 points in the league. All the happy clappers wanted to talk about was the goals. I'd advise anyone to back and watch Harry for 90 mins in the infamous AC Milan home game. Harry's attitude absolutely stunk.

When you think about what you said above about Harry and Jose, that is actually more passive aggressive BS from them. Of course Harry would say that because he knew that Jose let him get away with not putting in a proper shift. He let him amble about and wasn't strong enough to sub him, leave him on the bench or get him to shut down properly. Jose knew Harry was bigger than him at THFC. Personally, I think Ange was secretly glad Harry moved on and allowed us to get stronger characters around the place.

Said this many times, Harry has elite level abilities, especially finishing, but he doesn't have anywhere near an elite level mentality. It's a gap in his build.
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We've got 99 problems but.....
 
Bishop said:
I said at the time beating United wasn't the coup Raziel felt it was. United are genuinely brick, dog brick. We absolutely should be beating them because even with them being brick they are also a shambles. The only we could lose against them is via self destruction, well we did see that against Brighton.
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United are dog brick, but saw a stat saying the have more points over the last 35 games than we have.

Why 35? I have no idea
 
glorygloryeze said:
Hmm, very interesting detail, thanks.

Personally, i give Harry some slack in that he put his body on the line for us many times, to his and our detriment sometimes.
I suspect in those later periods where you noticed his effort dropping, he was probably starting to think that he needed to protect his longevity as a footballer: plus we were more and more showing little to no ambition when compared to what he (and we) must have thought before he signed that 6 year deal in 2018.


Overall, some of that could have been avoided if the club actually went and bought some competition so we didn't have to rely some much on Harry and his physical exertions: he'd a) have been able to rest his body more and b) have known that he'd not automatically play if he wasn't able to put the level of effort in required and so maybe would have had less of an eye on prolonging his career and just making sure he was fit instead of rushing back

Ultimately, how things went with Harry is a symptom of how things went with the club and how when it comes to the crunch they really don't 'push on' when they are in great positions to succeed.


I bare no ill-feeling to Harry whatsoever because of the last point, we would do well to get close to the very best levels he took us to in the next few years imo
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You are of course right about a couple of key areas.

Llorente, Jannsen and Vinicius weren't what our club needed to achieve what you mention. Saying that Ronaldo and Messi didn't need anyone pushing more effort levels out of them when they were under 30. It was a given, to go with their obvious talents.

Also, Harry did have a repetitive injury on that left ankle. Problem is, he told the world in his passive aggressive manner that it wasn't a problem and he was fully fit and giving 100%. Players in his position that only touch the ball less than 30 times in a match are lying when they say that.

Anyway, Danny boy optimised the situation in the end and got us the money for Venom, VDV, Madds, Johnson etc. We obviously couldn't have had Harry and all these new players. Ange seems happy with the boys he got with the Kane money. Harry also seems happy scoring for fun in the German Sunday pub league.
 
Muttley said:
You are of course right about a couple of key areas.

Llorente, Jannsen and Vinicius weren't what our club needed to achieve what you mention. Saying that Ronaldo and Messi didn't need anyone pushing more effort levels out of them when they were under 30. It was a given, to go with their obvious talents.

Also, Harry did have a repetitive injury on that left ankle. Problem is, he told the world in his passive aggressive manner that it wasn't a problem and he was fully fit and giving 100%. Players in his position that only touch the ball less than 30 times in a match are lying when they say that.

Anyway, Danny boy optimised the situation in the end and got us the money for Venom, VDV, Madds, Johnson etc. We obviously couldn't have had Harry and all these new players. Ange seems happy with the boys he got with the Kane money. Harry also seems happy scoring for fun in the German Sunday pub league.
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Where are you getting this passive aggressive bs from? He's always been nothing but professional in his interviews.
 
Muttley said:
You are of course right about a couple of key areas.

Llorente, Jannsen and Vinicius weren't what our club needed to achieve what you mention. Saying that Ronaldo and Messi didn't need anyone pushing more effort levels out of them when they were under 30. It was a given, to go with their obvious talents.

Also, Harry did have a repetitive injury on that left ankle. Problem is, he told the world in his passive aggressive manner that it wasn't a problem and he was fully fit and giving 100%. Players in his position that only touch the ball less than 30 times in a match are lying when they say that.

Anyway, Danny boy optimised the situation in the end and got us the money for Venom, VDV, Madds, Johnson etc. We obviously couldn't have had Harry and all these new players. Ange seems happy with the boys he got with the Kane money. Harry also seems happy scoring for fun in the German Sunday pub league.
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To me your devaluing the general point of the post with a few snide jabs, if you're trying to play the role of bitter ex it's mission accomplished! The Kane = Passive aggressive thing is reaching to stretch armstrong levels, you can say it as many times as you like and it'll still be miles off the reality of it. As for the German Sunday pub league thing, I just don't get what that is trying to achieve but as long as it makes you feel warm and fuzzy then crack on. Jaded middle aged men describing obscure European semi pro leagues as pub / farmer leagues online is already fairly pitiful but adding the label to one of the highest profile leagues in the world? As respectfully as I can put it, it might be worth winding your neck in with that one, unless the general aim is to come off as absurd, like a Jeremy Clarkson "Saying outlandish things until someone calls you out and then jumping at them for not being able to take a joke" kind of vibe.

Llorente was a good signing imo, sure he wasn't up to his neck in goals but scored some key ones - But if the general point was that Kane needed more genuine competition during his time with us I can definitely agree with that.

I'm not sure how this has come up in the Ange thread tbh and I'm not sure it's worth getting to the bottom of it. Not a great time to have put in a performance like we did before the international break, I doubt Ange is thrilled about having so much time to reflect on it, the feeling being mutual with the fans no doubt.
 
Legohamster said:
United are dog brick, but saw a stat saying the have more points over the last 35 games than we have.

Why 35? I have no idea
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I have also seen some stats along those lines. I think it's supposed to be games since we lost to Chelsea 1-4. they have 3 more points apparently.

Either way we are inconsistent and at times I've felt the way we attempt to play doesn't really work with the players we have/had but united are pure moments. I keep saying it but just watch them they are actually brick and should have finished 13th last season. We have games we should have reasonable expectations to have won they have games they should have definitely lost.
 
I keep seeing comments belittling our result at Old Trafford and how brick Man U are, and of course they are not the team they were. Yet when it comes to big games at home they constantly raise their game. In the last year they have only lost to Emirates Marketing Project and Arsenal at home - whilst beating Villa, Chelsea and drawing with Liverpool and us. That whilst factoring in the fact we have a poor history and Old Trafford and constantly brick the bed in the past regardless of how good or bad Man U are - a 3-0 win they is a damn good result by any metric.....
 
harr1984 said:
I keep seeing comments belittling our result at Old Trafford and how brick Man U are, and of course they are not the team they were. Yet when it comes to big games at home they constantly raise their game. In the last year they have only lost to Emirates Marketing Project and Arsenal at home - whilst beating Villa, Chelsea and drawing with Liverpool and us. That whilst factoring in the fact we have a poor history and Old Trafford and constantly brick the bed in the past regardless of how good or bad Man U are - a 3-0 win they is a damn good result by any metric.....
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What are you talking about re the bold bit; off the top of my head i can think of them losing at home to the likes Brighton, Palace, Bournemouth before even thinking about Emirates Marketing Project or Arsenal....are you secretly ETH's agent in disguise??
 
glorygloryeze said:
What are you talking about re the bold bit; off the top of my head i can think of them losing at home to the likes Brighton, Palace, Bournemouth before even thinking about Emirates Marketing Project or Arsenal....are you secretly ETH's agent in disguise??
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Well in the sentence before I said 'big games at home' - perhaps we have different ideas as to who the big games for them are :).....
 
harr1984 said:
I keep seeing comments belittling our result at Old Trafford and how brick Man U are, and of course they are not the team they were. Yet when it comes to big games at home they constantly raise their game. In the last year they have only lost to Emirates Marketing Project and Arsenal at home - whilst beating Villa, Chelsea and drawing with Liverpool and us. That whilst factoring in the fact we have a poor history and Old Trafford and constantly brick the bed in the past regardless of how good or bad Man U are - a 3-0 win they is a damn good result by any metric.....
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I wasn't trying to belittle the result it's just I've watched enough of them to see the truth, they are brick. They scumbagged the wins against Liverpool and Chelsea and in the draw against us we were just too inept to win the game.

Us winning the game was more about ourselves then anything they could do. I said before the match we must beat them. No excuses accepted. 😅:tearsofjoy:
 
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Bishop said:
I wasn't trying to belittle the result it's just I've watched enough of them to see the truth, they are brick. They scumbagged the wins against Liverpool and Chelsea and in the draw against us we were just too inept to win the game.

Is winning the game was more about ourselves then anything they could do. I said before the match we must beat them. No excuses accepted. 😅:tearsofjoy:
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It wasn't directed specifically at you mate, and I agree for the most part but you're making excuses for why Man U won games and it doesn't matter how they won those games - they did, and the reason they didn't this time against us was that we were very good. I'm not trying to over sell the victory, but a 3-0 win away at Old Trafford is good under any circumstances....
 
They also went down to 10 men at the end of the first half. Despite the fact we were absolutely pummelling them, i'd have been more confident that the red card would have made no difference to the outcome if we had been 2-0 or 3-0 up by that point, but a result is a result.

They are absolutely brick though and it would have been more a reflection on us rather than them if we hadn't won tbh.

Sadly, the follow-up league result at Brighton puts it more into perspective or where we are still struggling: we can talk about how 'well' we've played in the league all season (save for maybe the Brighton second half, though some may say we just got punished by conceding when other times we've played that way in that second half we haven't..) but the fact is all our wins have been against teams who are in the bottom half of the table...we still don't seem to be able to overcome good to decent teams and haven't since March....
 
harr1984 said:
I keep seeing comments belittling our result at Old Trafford and how brick Man U are, and of course they are not the team they were. Yet when it comes to big games at home they constantly raise their game. In the last year they have only lost to Emirates Marketing Project and Arsenal at home - whilst beating Villa, Chelsea and drawing with Liverpool and us. That whilst factoring in the fact we have a poor history and Old Trafford and constantly brick the bed in the past regardless of how good or bad Man U are - a 3-0 win they is a damn good result by any metric.....
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The arsenal game, was it not really tight, utd got a goal chopped off really late and arsenal scored with the last kick of the game?
 
glasgowspur said:
The arsenal game, was it not really tight, utd got a goal chopped off really late and arsenal scored with the last kick of the game?
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That was at the Emirates. And Arsenal scored two late goals in injury time to win after Man Utd had thought they themselves had scored a winner, which was ruled offside.

@harr1984 is talking about Man Utd's HOME games. Arsenal won 1-0 at Old Trafford but it was one of the most conformable 1-0s you'll ever see
 
glorygloryeze said:
That was at the Emirates. And Arsenal scored two late goals in injury time to win after Man Utd had thought they themselves had scored a winner, which was ruled offside.

@harr1984 is talking about Man Utd's HOME games. Arsenal won 1-0 at Old Trafford but it was one of the most conformable 1-0s you'll ever see
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I just remember turning it on as utd scored, watching a couple of minutes then turning it off in disgust at their jamminess.
 
glorygloryeze said:
They also went down to 10 men at the end of the first half. Despite the fact we were absolutely pummelling them, i'd have been more confident that the red card would have made no difference to the outcome if we had been 2-0 or 3-0 up by that point, but a result is a result.

They are absolutely brick though and it would have been more a reflection on us rather than them if we hadn't won tbh.

Sadly, the follow-up league result at Brighton puts it more into perspective or where we are still struggling: we can talk about how 'well' we've played in the league all season (save for maybe the Brighton second half, though some may say we just got punished by conceding when other times we've played that way in that second half we haven't..) but the fact is all our wins have been against teams who are in the bottom half of the table...we still don't seem to be able to overcome good to decent teams and haven't since March....
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Sometimes great, sometimes brick. Would be good if we were great more of the time and average when not instead of brick.

I do think there's progress though and although as you point out there's an unfortunate pattern in results I don't think it's the same pattern repeating itself with regards to performances and "how we fail".
 
glasgowspur said:
That one and the shot that hit the post, came out, hit the back of keeper and then went in. Was that Brentford?
And fluking a win against city very late on, they really did ride their luck last season.
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Yeah, they certainly had a fair share of memorable moments that swing big-time in their favour...you hope it'd be balanced out over time...but then i'm sure many thought the same would happen with United under SAF, so.....
 
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