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Transfer speculation

braineclipse said:
Trippier is a red herring in this conversation imo. Either Pochettino rates KWP highly enough or we'll sign someone.

Are you excluding Wimmer? Or is there some idea that both Wimmer and Vertonghen must play as the left centre back even in a back ? I think Alderweireld, Wimmer, Vertonghen as our back 3 with Wanyama as the DM seems absolutely fine to me. That's one injury to Dier.

If Vertonghen, Wimmer and Dier as a back 3 with Wanyama as the DM isn't good enough then it's a question of Wimmer or Dier not being good enough as centre backs, not a question of numbers.

Take out both of Vertonghen and Alderweireld. The best centre back pair in the league most on here would agree. A loss that would be a blow to any team. We can field a 4-2-3-1 with Wimmer and Dier at the back with Wanyama as the DM. We're not as good as with the Belgians, but that's still pretty strong. Again, if that's not good enough it's a problem with the quality of Dier/Wimmer, not with quantity.

Formation flexibility is a strength for us, not a weakness. It allows us to deal with injuries in different ways. That flexibility doesn't mean that we must sign players to be able to play both formations without playing younger players even when struggling significantly with injuries.
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Yes, the tactical flexibility that Poch has installed really helps us out.

One way to test @AdamB 's point out would be to apply these scenarios to our top 6 rivals. At bare minimum it would show whether he is being over cautious.
 
billyiddo said:
Honestly thought I don't really see the issue here with an extra man in this area - it's one thing to have a streamlined squad that could get by unless we pickup a couple of injuries in certain positions and another to be knowinglly weak in two or three positions which is where I see us atm
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The issue is we are paying for a monstrous stadium and need to be incredibly careful about how we spend our money. Getting a luxury center back would be great, but not at the expense of real right back cover and one more who can play in AM or CM. Also, are the guys we could sign for 20-30 mil even better than what we have? I haven't watched much of Boro, but I don't feel confident that Gibson (who currently costs 30 million) is better than Wimmer. Same goes for guys like Maguire or Keane. Defending in a low block behind two defensive midfielders isn't really how we play.

And don't forget, Poch recently said that CCV could become one of the best CBs in England. At some point, he's got to play.

I think this conundrum shows why we were interested in Foyth, and I just don't see us splashing out big money on a back-up CB when we already have a few who can cover there.
 
ricky2tricky4city said:
Yes, the tactical flexibility that Poch has installed really helps us out.

One way to test @AdamB 's point out would be to apply these scenarios to our top 6 rivals. At bare minimum it would show whether he is being over cautious.
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Great point. Look at our rivals. All of them besides United and LFC figure to play some 3CB XIs.And they all have a ton more money than we do. If you look at this list, I'd argue that you wouldn't swap our CBs for any of them, except mayyybe United?

THFC: Ald, Vertonghen, Dier, Wimmer, CCV

CFC: Luiz, Cahill, Rudiger, Azpi, Christiansen
They have a tiny bit more depth at CB, but they have literally zero back-up wingbacks for Alonso and Moses.

LFC: Matip, Lovren, Klavan, Gomez,
No comment. Their best CB isn't as good as any of our top 3.

AFC: Kosc, Mustafi, Gabriel, Holding, Mertesacker
Meh. Their first two are OK, but Gabriel and Mertesacker are liabilities at this point.

MUFC: Bailly, Smalling, new Swedish guy I can't remember, Jones, Rojo,
Yeah, they are the richest club in the world, and Jose is their coach. Not surprising that they are well-stocked in this department.

MCFC: Stones, Otamendi, Kompany, Mangala, Adarabiyoyo
This is a ridiculously thin CB rotation. Stones and Otamendi are dicey, and Kompany is always hurt. Surprised that more people aren't talking about this.
 
I guess my overall point is that, while it would be nice to sign a CB — Virgil Van Dijk is available :) — I don't think it's one of our most pressing issues.

Let's get a right back and another dynamic midfielder, then maybe we can boost our CB depth.
 
SpurSF said:
I guess my overall point is that, while it would be nice to sign a CB — Virgil Van Dijk is available :) — I don't think it's one of our most pressing issues.

Let's get a right back and another dynamic midfielder, then maybe we can boost our CB depth.
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I think a RB that can also play as a RCB (like Davies does on the left) would be worthwhile.
 
We have to trust Poch to some degree.

In seasons gone by,some players who are nailed on first 11 now we're just about considered squad fillers.

We were heading into one season all talking about Mason and Bentaleb as the two midfielders and Dembele looking surplus as we didn't see how he'd fit in , and in no time him and the newly converted Dier are the pairing from heaven:).

I do think we will sign a couple though.
 
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Never ever got the Mason "hype" always reminded me of a championship sort of player.

One thing (I'm sure I'm being paranoid) is that we possibly don't need someone that can challenge the first XI immediately, but could give us a real headache for options off the bench as a start.

I look at how Dele forced his way into the starting line up and think what balls he had.

Given up on the "Chuck money at it", but instead crave another Dele, Dier, Kane, Rose, Lloris. All named due to different success stories.

I would love to stick two fingers up at the money teams and have sustained success using our model.

A few tweaks and levy would have cracked the code.

THFC as always the trailblazers!
 
Gazza said:
Never ever got the Mason "hype" always reminded me of a championship sort of player.

One thing (I'm sure I'm being paranoid) is that we possibly don't need someone that can challenge the first XI immediately, but could give us a real headache for options off the bench as a start.

I look at how Dele forced his way into the starting line up and think what balls he had.

Given up on the "Chuck money at it", but instead crave another Dele, Dier, Kane, Rose, Lloris. All named due to different success stories.

I would love to stick two fingers up at the money teams and have sustained success using our model.

A few tweaks and levy would have cracked the code.

THFC as always the trailblazers!
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It was an interesting comment made by the commentator in last nights Madrid v Man u game. He mentioned that Madrid had quite a smattering of youth/academy players either getting game time or regularly making the bench, which in light of the superstar/galaticos impression that the club portrays is an interesting direction (if true of course).

Obviously they also have the 3 or 4 real special players that will take you to the highest level (and so they should, they are Real Madrid after all) BUT maybe clubs (well some) realise that homegrown players are loved by the supporters, are cheap, and possibly will show a bit more loyalty in the face of temptation.?

Since Jack Walker and then Chelski and Emirates Marketing Project i always thought that money would win out BUT it's nice to think that 'other ways' are in with a shout.
 
SpurSF said:
Great point. Look at our rivals. All of them besides United and LFC figure to play some 3CB XIs.And they all have a ton more money than we do. If you look at this list, I'd argue that you wouldn't swap our CBs for any of them, except mayyybe United?

THFC: Ald, Vertonghen, Dier, Wimmer, CCV

CFC: Luiz, Cahill, Rudiger, Azpi, Christiansen
They have a tiny bit more depth at CB, but they have literally zero back-up wingbacks for Alonso and Moses.

LFC: Matip, Lovren, Klavan, Gomez,
No comment. Their best CB isn't as good as any of our top 3.

AFC: Kosc, Mustafi, Gabriel, Holding, Mertesacker
Meh. Their first two are OK, but Gabriel and Mertesacker are liabilities at this point.

MUFC: Bailly, Smalling, new Swedish guy I can't remember, Jones, Rojo,
Yeah, they are the richest club in the world, and Jose is their coach. Not surprising that they are well-stocked in this department.

MCFC: Stones, Otamendi, Kompany, Mangala, Adarabiyoyo
This is a ridiculously thin CB rotation. Stones and Otamendi are dicey, and Kompany is always hurt. Surprised that more people aren't talking about this.
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Interesting to see this laid out. Some comments:
- For us, I think including CCV is a bit of a stretch given he hasnt played in the PL yet and other teams probably have CCV-like people. Also, as I've been saying, Dier needs to cover DM where a lot of people believe he's also best...and he might even have to cover RB as well! Make those two adjustments, and we're thin on the ground particularly if 3 at the back is our main formation - we kind of have 3.5 CBs
- Chelsea apparently are looking to sign three more players this window. I agree about your point about their wing back cover, and i think that's their main weakness, similar to ours at CB given that they'd need to move Azpi to Rb to cover Moses. They do have 4 international CBs though.
- Liverpool: need to add Sakho. I'd also say that I think Matip is a very decent CB and would happily have him at Spurs
- Agree about your comments re Utd and Man C. I actually think Utd will do very well this year - De Gea, Bailyy and the swede at CB, Herrera, Pogba and Matic in CM, Lukaku up top..
 
braineclipse said:
No. Not DM. We have Wanyama injured, Dier plays there. Choice between Wimmer, Davies if Rose is fit, CCV or a simple move to a 4-2-3-1. Again, flexibility, options. Not sure how many times we lined up like that last season, but it wasn't because that option wasn't there, rather because other options were preferred by Pochettino.

if Wanyama is out we can bring Dier in, no problem there... the problem is the knock on effect it has on the rest of the defense/team - we either play CCV who is atm not trusted by the manager to fill in (see Alderwierelds injury last season), shift the back three around to accommodate Wimmer who himself doesn't seem to be in favor since the City away game early last season or go to a back 4 and have to alter our whole approach to how we play in the upcoming games - none of which compares to just having a replacement RCB to allow Dier to cover Wanyama - which means less disruption and also that we retain our flexibility to use in our favor over the run of games which Wanyama misses.

Yes, RB. But again, either KWP or we sign a new right back before the window closes.

i hope we do because as of now we are currently weaker in the first XI for not having Walker and weaker in reserve because we dont have Trippier - thats first team and squad weakened from last season.

Yes, if we lose one of our best centre backs and one of our best defensive midfielders to injury at the same time we're weaker, but it's not a crises. Same as most of our competitors. Or arguably we're a bit stronger actually.

two injuries in this one area and i can understand the need to shift things around to the extent we'd currently see with one player out - you can't cover all eventualities without having to make sacrifices after all - however my issue is that straight off the bat with one injury we're having to change a whole bunch of players around which brings disruption, which is entirely avoidable.

Another player means most likely:

A. Very limited game time for CCV as surely the new guy must be given game time to be able to perform. Last season even Wimmer wasn't happy with his game time...

that is part and parcel of modern football - working with players that arent getting as much game time as they think they should be getting and is not a reason to not buy players imo. besides across four competitions with a strong squad i expect us to be able to keep two XI's worth of players happy game time wise.

C. Or we just keep the new guy or Wimmer in reserve, without getting game time. Just in case enough players get injured. Meaning most likely he won't actually be ready to perform if needed and a year from now he'll be unhappy and want away. We end up selling at a loss and replacing him with a new backup for the backup to sit around just in case costing us money.

loss of money will be minimal over the time frame you're suggesting and can be offset by the benefits of having a better caliber of squad player to call upon.

I would rather trust CCV.

as of now i do not and seemingly with his lack of game time neither does the manager.

Pochettino hasn't seemed too fond of the strategy you propose.

without knowing who we have targeted in the market over this summer and last we can not say one way or the other
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listen i understand where you are coming from mate - we do have a variety of options in those areas and that is a big plus, however my issue is that in my opinion those options should be a safety net, worst case scenario type options not our go-to remedy for a first team player being injured - in my mind if you have an injured player the best way to overcome that is a straight swap like for like in that one position thus being able to leave the rest of the side unchanged - continuity and all that... if your hands are tied in to playing players out of their natural position and/or altering the formation then in my mind that is not ideal as you're having your team shape being dictated by the absence of one player, rather than being in a position to choose the set up you want, which i do understand is part and parcel of the game but for me only when you have a particularly bad slice of luck regarding injuries - it shouldn't be the first line of defense - im not sure any of our rivals are in a similar position of having to alter the team so much in order to cover for one injured player.


edit : fudged that up, lost half my bloody post :mad:
 
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ricky2tricky4city said:
It was an interesting comment made by the commentator in last nights Madrid v Man u game. He mentioned that Madrid had quite a smattering of youth/academy players either getting game time or regularly making the bench, which in light of the superstar/galaticos impression that the club portrays is an interesting direction (if true of course).

Obviously they also have the 3 or 4 real special players that will take you to the highest level (and so they should, they are Real Madrid after all) BUT maybe clubs (well some) realise that homegrown players are loved by the supporters, are cheap, and possibly will show a bit more loyalty in the face of temptation.?

Since Jack Walker and then Chelski and Emirates Marketing Project i always thought that money would win out BUT it's nice to think that 'other ways' are in with a shout.
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What money does though is enable you to swoop in and dismantle any smaller sides that start to look threatening. You will always be up there, looking to challenge. Unfocused spending for the sake of it could easily lead to a Manu situation though.
 
SpurSF said:
Great point. Look at our rivals. All of them besides United and LFC figure to play some 3CB XIs.And they all have a ton more money than we do. If you look at this list, I'd argue that you wouldn't swap our CBs for any of them, except mayyybe United?

THFC: Ald, Vertonghen, Dier, Wimmer, CCV

CFC: Luiz, Cahill, Rudiger, Azpi, Christiansen
They have a tiny bit more depth at CB, but they have literally zero back-up wingbacks for Alonso and Moses.

LFC: Matip, Lovren, Klavan, Gomez,
No comment. Their best CB isn't as good as any of our top 3.

AFC: Kosc, Mustafi, Gabriel, Holding, Mertesacker
Meh. Their first two are OK, but Gabriel and Mertesacker are liabilities at this point.

MUFC: Bailly, Smalling, new Swedish guy I can't remember, Jones, Rojo,
Yeah, they are the richest club in the world, and Jose is their coach. Not surprising that they are well-stocked in this department.

MCFC: Stones, Otamendi, Kompany, Mangala, Adarabiyoyo
This is a ridiculously thin CB rotation. Stones and Otamendi are dicey, and Kompany is always hurt. Surprised that more people aren't talking about this.
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I've been saying about city and Chelsea for some time... no one has a balanced squad but we're in a beneficial position that most of our squad players have had genuine EPL games time last season and performed (or we wouldn't have come second)

I'll add that united have no footballing centre backs just cloggers from what I can see

And Holding is IMO arsenals best centre back already
 
I really like that Mensah fella who has gone from Man U to Palace. I will also be keeping an eye on Billing at Huddersfield this season as I saw him last season in the Championship and he really impressed me.
 
Bullet said:
Holy crap that surprised me. It's just a loan. Tim Fosu Mensah was brilliant against us and would be such a perfect signing for us now Walks left
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Cash + player if Mourinho is involved and I bet you can guess who would be the player?
 
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