***Tottenham Hotspur vs. Manchester United OMT***

[Robspur12]

Good crosses from out by the touchline? Not for me.

Unless you are against an entirely unorganised defence then that kind of ball needs a massive mistake to end up in a goal.

If he had a brain he'd have been crossing from around the edge of the box where it's more effective.

Nah sorry, what we do very well is pass pass pass around the edge of the box. You need to have variety, work the goal keeper with some high balls into the box, cut backs etc. The problem is the lack of movement from our offensive players we have become to predictable.

 

[ringo]

Sissoko came on and did more more in 20 minutes than Eriksen, Alli, Kane, Dembele or Wanyama managed all game...and three of those stayed on the pitch for the full 90. Yet, he gets slated here.

C'est la vie, I suppose. Personally, I thought he tried harder and did more than a lot of our sacred cows in the starting eleven.

Difficult to describe our performance, really. It was turgid, listless, utterly abject...United were bang average and we made them look like world-beaters, while we couldn't control the simplest passes and turned every simple pass into some Herculean labor just to retain possession. It was almost comical to watch our collection of supposedly Premier League level footballers control the ball and move like drunken OAPs after a fry-up the night before.

We were beaten, and deserved to lose by a lot more. Kane was abjectly awful, Alli and Eriksen likewise. Wanyama did little of note save for missing that glorious chance from the free-kick. Toby and Jan were alright, Rose and Walker were miserably bad.

I don't know if Poch got out-coached by Mourinho, but his team was simply brushed aside by a United side which struggled against bloody Everton and the like but looked eminently comfortable today..*after* playing Zorya Luhansk away at midweek. While we couldn't manage 5 minutes of energy after not leaving London for the past two-odd weeks.

Just a pathetic game from us all round, really. And that leads to what I said prior to the game...

@alekaras , We. Do. Not. Handle. Crunch. Moments. Well. When even the tiniest bit of pressure is applied to us, or expectations placed on us, or opportunities given to us, we fold like a pack of cards and expose our innate submissiveness and spineless nature for all to see. This transcends managers and teams, this is a thread running through the spine of our club that only superhuman efforts can dispel. You said last season was last season - against Chelsea and now, we proved that last season is this season, as far as dealing with crunch moments is concerned.

It's why I *hate* Walker and co. coming out and talking about how they can 'handle' the pressure, because they can't. They never have been able to, and they never will. We do our best work when nobody notices. Pochettino has not changed this, despite what his more ardent admirers would have you believe. Nothing earth-shattering has changed in our mentality from Harry's days down to today - the only differences are small and game-by-game, not a substantive change of our ethos. Poch has made some improvements, but he hasn't changed the underlying character of Tottenham Hotspur at all yet - and that yawning collapse last season deserves to be more acutely remembered given how we're still folding in crunch situations. As we folded today.


Sigh. I suppose I should have seen it coming the moment City lost and we had an opportunity to head into the top four - we would blow it, and royally so. And so we did.

Next time, let's just shut the f*ck up and work out of the spotlight. This team cannot handle pressure at all.

I don't think you can put it down to pressure otherwise we would lose to all the top teams. i think the issue is that last year we had a system- 4-2-3-1, high pressing, and a relatively settled side. And the squad players were easily slotted into that system. That was good for the players and our performances.

Now we have a variety of types of player, the potential to play a number of different systems, and Poch can't really make his mind up what the best team and system is. So we have an unsettled side, with changing personnel. Which is not good for the players or our performances.

If I were Poch I would have two main approaches - system A - as close to last year as possible with same personnel where possible, high pressing etc. And system B - something more radical -say 3-5-2 - for when we need to change the momentum or chase a game. (And maybe a set up for playing on the break.)

 

[braineclipse]

Remember Saudi Sportswashing Machine. Was Wanyama there? Fact is Dele and Kane didnt play well today. The defence and DMs did ok. The forward line didnt show up today.

The DMs did ok if what you expect from your two DMs is to defend and stand around doing nothing when your team attacks. I expect more. I've seen Carrick, Modric and Huddlestone in lillywhite just in the last decade. I expect much more. Today their ok performance made me long for Bentaleb, never mind the previously mentioned trio.

The forward line didn't show up because they got very little service.

 

[Mulletperm]

Found this interesting. The highest pass combination was Dembele to Wanyama and then Walker to Sissoko, who came on after 57 mins!

 

[paxtonwolf]

One thing's for sure, we had better not play like that in the reverse fixture in May. Because if we bow out at the lane with a performace similar to that it will be embarassing

 

[Kandi1977]

Really? And thanks for the personal insult. I shall remember to pay you the same respect when you go on your ranting attacks of players. And to the main point away from your insult. You really believe that the price of the player does not set expectations? I don't think so. Typically how much a player costs reflects how good a player should be. The three players you said were worse than Sissoko today have been better then him all season. And in their previous seasons. And one of them is 20 and previously played League one football. But perhaps that doesn't count either.

Do you think any of those players would be sold for less than Sissoko? Your logic is getting worse by the minute!

 

[We are Tottenham]

His price tag is totally irrelevant! HE did not set the price tag, and and this is about performance today and not price or previous performance you knob! Kane was utter utter brick today, Sissoko was not. That is the fact weather you like it or not.

The thing is you have to play your best players IMO..
I did stress how worried I would be if Sissoko played for us again in his thread!. OK ...Kane Erikson Ali etc were apparently playing below par but they are proven players.
Good players can inspire others and the best subs should have played in the game to try and salvage something.
At least the lazy Adebayor could play a bit and even score when a red hot poker was shoved up his arsenal but with Sissoko unfortunately, he has no end product as far as I can tell.

 

[DubaiSpur]

Agree entirely. Barring the odd exception, we have been doing year in, year out for as long as I can remember. and it seems it doesnt matter whether we play first or last.
Sat 12.30pm the chance to go top , etc: we blow it. Play last seeing other teams trip up giving us the chance to move up the table, we blow it.

Notable exceptions as you say have been the glorious night at The Etihad and for me an amazing night at Stoke last April (one of the best performances I have witnessed live). But those days/nights are few and far between and you can almost know beforehand what is going to happen if we have the chance to gain ground/open up a gap against a direct rival.
It;s been said many times...It's in our DNA

The Etihad was phenomenal - it was the culmination of a full-throated repudiation of our Spursiness for two glorious months. We looked to all the world like we would go 'sexy' again after folding and losing to f*Cking Popmpey in the FA Cup semi...our season was over, with Arsenal, Chelsea, United and City yet to play in the final few games.

But my GHod, how we fought, how we battled, how we won!

Same thing with 2012-2013 - unlike in 09/10, we didn't get the reward at the end, but GHod did we keep the race running all the way through to the end. Ultimately, it wasn't us who faltered, it was just Arsenal who went on an unreal run of form to deny us. But we ground out result after result after result, in a phenomenally consistent season. That sort of consistency in the face of adversity also felt very un-Spurslike to me.

It's why I'm so fond of AVB and (to a lesser extent) Harry - they repudiated our sexy nature, if only for a limited time.

For all of Poch's good work, he hasn't done so yet. Thus, I'm still looking at him through a pair of relatively unemotional lens.

Anyway, if you mention that we're genetically predisposed to horribly crumbling under pressure, you'll get a lot of disagreement from posters who earnestly believe that we shouldn't talk about it for whatever reason - so there's that to look forward to.

 

[scaramanga]

Nah sorry, what we do very well is pass pass pass around the edge of the box. You need to have variety, work the goal keeper with some high balls into the box, cut backs etc. The problem is the lack of movement from our offensive players we have become to predictable.

What do you consider a good cross?

For me, any pass that doesn't end up with one of our players receiving the ball is a poor one.

The worse thing about crossing from out there is that even if our forward gets to them, they're really difficult to score from.

It's just a complete lack of brains to play in such a low return manner like that - especially against a Mourinho side that you just know is desperate to counter.

 

[ringo]

Found this interesting. The highest pass combination was Dembele to Wanyama and then Walker to Sissoko, who came on after 57 mins!

I'd much rather it was the other way around.

 

[Kandi1977]

The thing is you have to play your best players IMO..
I did stress how worried I would be if Sissoko played for us again in his thread!. OK ...Kane Erikson Ali etc were apparently playing below par but they are proven players.
Good players can inspire others and the best subs should have played in the game to try and salvage something.
At least the lazy Adebayor could play a bit and even score when a red hot poker was shoved up his arsenal but with Sissoko unfortunately, he has no end product as far as I can tell.

Why are they proven players? Because they have been playing for us more than 4 months. Sissoko hasn't had a pre-season, he got a concussion early on, and haven't had many opportunities. I'm not saying he's a world beater, far from it, but come on, give him some slack.

Sent with Miele C1 Vacuum cleaner

 

[SteveAWOL]

https://twitter.com/x/status/807983426146025473

https://twitter.com/x/status/807981183405621248

https://twitter.com/x/status/807983041591250944

https://twitter.com/x/status/807982668864491520

 

[jabbathehut]

Maybe they did a good Job of stifling us.Its no secret how we and mourinho is no mug.They are slowly getting their act together. Had it been dier rather than wanyama we might have come away with a draw.Fortunatly City lost so we didn't lose any ground on them.Next stop hull a team full of ex players desperate to show we were wrong to discard them.We should win but they won't roll over for sure

 

[scaramanga]

https://twitter.com/x/status/807983426146025473

https://twitter.com/x/status/807981183405621248

https://twitter.com/x/status/807983041591250944

https://twitter.com/x/status/807982668864491520

That dot for Wanyama's chance should fill half the screen

 

[DubaiSpur]

I don't think you can put it down to pressure otherwise we would lose to all the top teams. i think the issue is that last year we had a system- 4-2-3-1, high pressing, and a relatively settled side. And the squad players were easily slotted into that system. That was good for the players and our performances.

Now we have a variety of types of player, the potential to play a number of different systems, and Poch can't really make his mind up what the best team and system is. So we have an unsettled side, with changing personnel. Which is not good for the players or our performances.

If I were Poch I would have two main approaches - system A - as close to last year as possible with same personnel where possible, high pressing etc. And system B - something more radical -say 3-5-2 - for when we need to change the momentum or chase a game. (And maybe a set up for playing on the break.)

We lost to Chelsea and United away, drew to Arsenal away and Liverpool and Leicester at home, and beat City at home.

Notice a pattern? Very small sample size, but we haven't actually done all that great against the top sides. I don't think we're predisposed to losing against them all the time, mind - I do think we'll probably lose to them whenever something is at stake, like a place in the top four or a chance to put them out of the running for the same. For what it's worth, when the media and the fans start expecting anything of the team, they will immediately fold - when we don't expect anything of them, they'll excel. Simple as that.

As for our tactical system, we haven't changed it much, if at all - Wanyama seems to have displaced Dier as Poch's first-choice DM, which is probably the only major change. Today was as close to a full 2015/2016 4-2-3-1 as we've seen this season (minus Dier and Lamela), and we looked thoroughly, unremittingly awful.

 

[Robspur12]

What do you consider a good cross?

For me, any pass that doesn't end up with one of our players receiving the ball is a poor one.

The worse thing about crossing from out there is that even if our forward gets to them, they're really difficult to score from.

It's just a complete lack of brains to play in such a low return manner like that - especially against a Mourinho side that you just know is desperate to counter.

Isn't that how Arsenal equalized against this mob? Giroud running onto an Oxlade Chamberlain cross? We just don't get enough people in the box and our runs off the ball are not good enough.

 

[scaramanga]

We lost to Chelsea and United away, drew to Arsenal away and Liverpool and Leicester at home, and beat City at home.

Notice a pattern? Very small sample size, but we haven't actually done all that great against the top sides. I don't think we're predisposed to losing against them all the time, mind - I do think we'll probably lose to them whenever something is at stake, like a place in the top four or a chance to put them out of the running for the same. For what it's worth, when the media and the fans start expecting anything of the team, they will immediately fold - when we don't expect anything of them, they'll excel. Simple as that.

As for our tactical system, we haven't changed it much, if at all - Wanyama seems to have displaced Dier as Poch's first-choice DM, which is probably the only major change. Today was as close to a full 2015/2016 4-2-3-1 as we've seen this season (minus Dier and Lamela), and we looked thoroughly, unremittingly awful.

If you take out two of any team's best players they'll look poor

 

[paxtonwolf]

The Etihad was phenomenal - it was the culmination of a full-throated repudiation of our Spursiness for two glorious months. We looked to all the world like we would go 'sexy' again after folding and losing to f*Cking Popmpey in the FA Cup semi...our season was over, with Arsenal, Chelsea, United and City yet to play in the final few games.

But my GHod, how we fought, how we battled, how we won!

Same thing with 2012-2013 - unlike in 09/10, we didn't get the reward at the end, but GHod did we keep the race running all the way through to the end. Ultimately, it wasn't us who faltered, it was just Arsenal who went on an unreal run of form to deny us. But we ground out result after result after result, in a phenomenally consistent season. That sort of consistency in the face of adversity also felt very un-Spurslike to me.

It's why I'm so fond of AVB and (to a lesser extent) Harry - they repudiated our sexy nature, if only for a limited time.

For all of Poch's good work, he hasn't done so yet. Thus, I'm still looking at him through a pair of relatively unemotional lens.

Anyway, if you mention that we're genetically predisposed to horribly crumbling under pressure, you'll get a lot of disagreement from posters who earnestly believe that we shouldn't talk about it for whatever reason - so there's that to look forward to.

I am among the minority, I enjoyed the Harry days, although not as much as the Jol era (the atmosphere at WHL in those few seasons was amazing). Really wanted AVB to succeed, just his style wasn't the Tottenham way, although he wasnt fully backed, as in, he didnt get the players he wanted like Hulk and Moutinho

 

[scaramanga]

Isn't that how Arsenal equalized against this mob? We just don't get enough people in the box and our runs off the ball are not good enough.

On that logic, if I want a piece of meteorite I'll go and stand where the last one landed!

You're right about runs off the ball, we miss Lamela and Dier there badly.

 

[Spur of the moment]

Getting sick and tired of the Dembele - Wanyama partnership.

Carrick at 35, nowhere near his best, is so far ahead of both of them it's close to embarrassing.

I'm not Dier's biggest fan, but on form he's clearly superior to Wanyama in our setup and I hope he's soon given the chance to play his way back to form as a DM.

People go on and on about our front 4. But they showed against Swansea and CSKA what they can do if given the ball in a bit of time and space. Can anyone name a single time when our deep midfielders managed to find one of our front 4 in a bit of time and space in the final third today?

You do realise there's a just a SLIGHT difference between the amount of space and time we were given vs Swansea and CSKA compared with what we got today against Manyoo?

United were far more at it today than either of the clubs you mention and it was clear that Mourinho had set his team up specifically to deny us space or time near their box. It was the main reason the likes of Alli and Kane played so poorly, they were never allowed a look-in.