*** Tottenham Hotspur vs Crystal Palace***OMT ***

[Bedfordspurs]

Why did Poch make the subs he did?
If he isn't happy with certain players (including capoue apparently) why play him?
It was an atrocious call imo and massively swung the game as he is a clown

 

[DubaiSpur]

Suddenly Benteleb and Mason our world beaters. Amazing. Poch changed formation and brought on two useless players in Capoue and Soldado and yes he lost us the game from that point on. We lost control of midfield and moved Kane out of the position he has been scoring from. SO yes that is all on Poch.

Dembele played well. re-watch the game and pick out the players that really did no play and it was not him or Stambouli. I twas Chadli, Townsend and Eriksen.

Bentaleb and Mason are our most effective DM duo. Do you deny that? They might be world beaters, they might be absolute crap, but they are still our best DM duo, and the only two who have shown any ability to control the flow and direction of a game. We did not have those two today. We did not even have one of the two today. Their replacements were not nearly as good, and we ceded control of the game fairly early on until we were hanging on by our finger tips by the 70th minute.

Again, the only other option that Poch had was Lennon (in terms of immediate subs he could have made), and he wasn't a silver bullet. For better or for worse, I don't think Poch trusts a large number of our players: hell, I don't even think he's completely convinced by Stambouli, our bargain bin Schneiderlin replacement. He has few trusted options to call on to change the flow of a game, and that isn't going to change until we get the players he wants in. So blaming him is pointless, and counter-productive.

 

[Daisuk]

Didn't think we were too bad today, to be honest. :-"

 

[mouville]

I resemble that remark myself Sir. Certainly would not wish to shorten your contributions mate, so just consider them the words of a grump who probably should avoid match threads as they go on ;-)
Be well and COYS!

k:

 

[braineclipse]

Thank you for arriving to post some common sense.

It's best I depart for a while because this thread is starting to do my head in...

Not just you steff.

I just find it strange. Earlier today Chelsea were clearly second best in the first half against Saudi Sportswashing Machine. Liverpool only managed a 1-0 win against a dreadful Sunderland side despite playing against 10 men quite a while, City only managing a draw against Everton that have been in dreadful form. Over the holiday schedule we've seen a lot of upsets and a lot of close fought games.

Yes we played a close fought game against Palace. Yes we should do better in the future. But we're nowhere near a finished product yet and missed key players today. Away against a new manager Palace full of energy a close fought game is no disaster. Today the outcome swung their way.

I just don't get where people got the idea that we should outplay all lower half teams from...

 

[thfcsteff]

Why did Poch make the subs he did?
If he isn't happy with certain players (including capoue apparently) why play him?
It was an atrocious call imo and massively swung the game as he is a clown

I agree that in these situations he simply cannot do that. he had already committed to the sub, but I'd have been happier with Paulinho and trying to keep fluid in the midfield rather than clogging it up with a waster. Hopefully he will learn from that, thus far Poch has shown me personally that he is learning pretty fast.

 

[Gilzeantoscore]

He should have brought Lennon on because Townsend was useless defensively. How many times did he lose the ball in the Palace half and then just stand like a statue? for all the anti Stambouli remarks, at least he got stuck in and retrieved possession a couple of times.

 

[Sandman]

Lets get it down to brass tacks. We lost to a team in the relegation zone when we had a chance to catch Man Yoo in 3rd and stay above the scum. Instread we shagged the chance up. From one great performance to average one. And a loss. Just bloody annoying.

Watching Redknapp show the goals back on sky the second goal annoys me more seeing Capoue and Dembele do nothing to block the shot. Zaha pushed Walker out the way to get that deflected pass.

 

[braineclipse]

Why did Poch make the subs he did?
If he isn't happy with certain players (including capoue apparently) why play him?
It was an atrocious call imo and massively swung the game as he is a clown

Lack of options. Kaboul, Capoue and Lennon have all been linked away fairly heavily. Soldado has been a bit meh. On a fairly poor pitch it was turning into a very physical battle... Between several not great options it's not some horrible choice.

Bentaleb and Mason are our most effective DM duo. Do you deny that? They might be world beaters, they might be absolute crap, but they are still our best DM duo, and the only two who have shown any ability to control the flow and direction of a game. We did not have those two today. We did not even have one of the two today. Their replacements were not nearly as good, and we ceded control of the game fairly early on until we were hanging on by our finger tips by the 70th minute.

Again, the only other option that Poch had was Lennon (in terms of immediate subs he could have made), and he wasn't a silver bullet. For better or for worse, I don't think Poch trusts a large number of our players: hell, I don't even think he's completely convinced by Stambouli, our bargain bin Schneiderlin replacement. He has few trusted options to call on to change the flow of a game, and that isn't going to change until we get the players he wants in. So blaming him is pointless, and counter-productive.

Bentaleb and Mason are our most effective DM duo. And the step down in quality behind them is unacceptable. This is not only true, it's old news by now.

Like Steff says I'm sure Poch and the club are aware. After all there's a reason why those two have become first choice.

 

[DubaiSpur]

I agree that in these situations he simply cannot do that. he had already committed to the sub, but I'd have been happier with Paulinho and trying to keep fluid in the midfield rather than clogging it up with a waster. Hopefully he will learn from that, thus far Poch has shown me personally that he is learning pretty fast.

Yeah, he probably did feel that he had nothing to lose when throwing these guys in, and that perhaps they'd redeem themselves somewhat. Gamble that backfired. Ah, well.

 

[90sSpursBook]

On my way back now. Very disappointed by our unprofessional performance in last half hour. Just seen replay of their pen and it was wrong call but thought fazio very fortunate in first half but this is a different argument.

 

[Sandman]

He should have brought Lennon on because Townsend was useless defensively. How many times did he lose the ball in the Palace half and then just stand like a statue? for all the anti Stambouli remarks, at least he got stuck in and retrieved possession a couple of times.

It always seems on here that there is an agenda against certain players no matter how they play. If they play well that means they were ok. But if the play ok then they were poor. I want Townsend to do well. he has all the qualities needed. But he was dire today. Lennon seems to be in the dog house at the moment, but why did Capoue get on? Poch changing the formation messed us up. Were under pressure at that point. putting an extra body up front was not helful.

 

[Gilzeantoscore]

I agree that Capoue was poor but what about Townsend? What does he bring to team? He has been crap in every game I have watched him start in.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I agree that in these situations he simply cannot do that. he had already committed to the sub, but I'd have been happier with Paulinho and trying to keep fluid in the midfield rather than clogging it up with a waster. Hopefully he will learn from that, thus far Poch has shown me personally that he is learning pretty fast.

I think paulinho is awful too but at least it would have been more of a like for like and we would have gone 4-3-3...
We looked **** after that sub and were hardly flying before hand.

Yeah the pen decisions had an impact and he got theirs right and ours wrong... But their right decisions

For me Poch had no answers today which was really disappointing

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I agree that Capoue was poor but what about Townsend? What does he bring to team? He has been crap in every game I have watched him start in.

He wasn't great but we looked as though we had a shape with him on and he knew his Job

As soon as crapoue came on we rejigged the shape and we were significantly worse and they had the momentum too

 

[Gutter Boy]

Completely disagree. Dembele and Stambouli bossed the first half but the three behind kane offered them no options and no chances for early release. Second half Dembele picks out some nice early passes and Kane lifts us. But Chadli and Townsend were poor and Eriksend was ok. So with out three creative players doing nothing in front of them what was we supposed to do. So Poch changed it up. Went 4-4-2 and we lost it all over the pitch from that point on.

It's all about transitioning speed.

Mason and Bentaleb enable our AMs by getting them the ball quickly.

Today we were as ponderous getting the ball to them as some of the games early last season

 

[shaney]

I did not say we lost because of the ref FFS. Once again someone says something and it's taken off to the races...I said the ref was shocking and any luck we've had was negated.
You going to deny that?
Not a pen, we had a clear one denied and the ref gave us very little.
Do you deny that those things happened?
If you accept they did, then you have to accept they contributed to the result.

As I have tried to clearly say, Poch is dealing with a squad which is not as strong as people think and has some issues.

Apologies if you thought I was putting words in your mouth mate, it was more a general statement on the amount of posts by people about the ref. I can see why the ref gave the penalty, it was the stupidity of our player to blame, not the refs fault. Of course we could have had one too, but how much luck have we had this season ? A fair quota I would say.

We were poor today and Im very frustrated that Poch cannot get us up for games against relegation fodder. As I said earlier the squad is not thst strong, I agree, but the squad is better then Crystal Palace. But we still lost.

In truth, it doesnt actually hurt as much as I thought it would as it was 100% expected. I understand tour points completely mate. Lets move on to the next game. Jan is a massive month for us.

 

[DubaiSpur]

Bentaleb and Mason are our most effective DM duo. And the step down in quality behind them is unacceptable. This is not only true, it's old news by now.

Like Steff says I'm sure Poch and the club are aware. After all there's a reason why those two have become first choice.

I know you know, braine. Not aimed at you.

 

[Mumorn]

Youd all have taken 3 points from Chelsea and Palace if given to you at the end of last year.

 

[Rorschach]

Ref had a big say in the result but our biggest fault today was we were toothless in attack IMO. Nothing really stuck up top. Townsend, Chadli were poor and Eriksen and Kane not a lot better. I thought Dembele was decent enough, the best of our lot really, but with Stambouli I don't see anything that warrants his inclusion going forward. Capoue was no better though. A missed opportunity to be sure.