Tim Sherwood…gone \o/

[Pirate55]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Er...isn't that what he actually did?? You seem to be flip-flopping - I thought you blamed AVB for the fact that he didn't play him??

Not me. I blamed AVB for not maximizing his resources. You surely aren't arguing he got the best out of Ade. Or are you?

 

[Pirate55]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

??? Bale has credited AVB with helping improve his game. And then it happened. There was no public challenge to the manager's authority and the whole relationship worked extremely well for both parties. Who did Bale jump into the arms of when he scored the winner at West Ham?

Bale also credited Harry with improving his game. My point was that it took Bale to go to AVB to insist he played centrally. AVB didn't recognize this potential until Bale pointed it out to him.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

In the immediate instance you may have, but as we lost and drew games we should be winning due to Bale no longer being there to score last minute screamers and keep us high up the league table, you and pretty much everyone else on here would eventually start to scream for him to be re-instated. This didn't happen with Ade because obviously he's not Gareth Bale and no one expected him to perform this way. However the fact remains that once he was re-instated, he's scored goals for fun.



I'm not sure he did say that. According to AVB he said 'He wasn't happy, he was disillusioned with his role in the team'. That doesn't sound like 'help me improve my game' to me. Again, you are assuming that you know what 'ideas' Ade was talking about. We don't know what they were, but everyone is assuming they are something along the lines of 'I'm Ade, I'm amazing, make me the main man'. No one has any idea.



Unfortunately AVB's job should have been to build Spurs into a club that could punch even further above his weight. In reality (wrongly on Levy's part IMO), his job was to get us into the top 4 this season. If he understood this to be his job, he stood a much better chance of succeeding with Ade in the team. I would have liked to have seen him put a little more effort into making it work. However, that being said, I do respect him for standing his ground if he truly felt what Ade done warranted the reaction he gave him. I'm just not sure it did.

Equally, maybe he didn't understand that this was his job as Levy may not have made it clear/shifted the goal posts half way through. If this was the case, then Levy is to blame.

Honestly if we are losing and drawing games with Bale out of the team but Bale hasn't come out and publicly apologies for dissenting in front of everyone then I still wouldn't want him in the team. It's about something bigger than short term results.

Whatever the ideas were with Ade isn't really the point. The point is that he already got his answer, and then decided to bring it up in front of the group. At this point I'm sure Ade is clever enough to know that he isn't going to get what he wants by making a public point, he's simply doing it to make AVB's position weaker. He got everything he deserved from him.

And however Bale did it, it was clear it wasn't a public challenging of AVB's authority. AVB did listen, in a private conversation. And he listened to the extent that Bale became phenomenal, and they had such mutual respect that Bale ran into the arms of AVB after scoring the winner at West Ham.

I would have liked to have seen more effort from Levy in making it worth with AVB, as you would have between AVB and Ade. There has been a failure this season to have a clear, consistent strategy.

 

[glorygloryeze]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Not me. I blamed AVB for not maximizing his resources. You surely aren't arguing he got the best out of Ade. Or are you?

You criticise on one hand that if his authority was undermined he should have gone to the board and said "sell him" or "he will not play a part in my squad". He did that.

But then you criticise him for not utilising him/getting the maximum resources from him? But then you said if his authority is undermined he should 'get rid'?

I'm confused? What do you criticise him for???
You can't criticise him for BOTH

(Unless of course in your mind AVB could do no right..)

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

And to get the best out of some payers they need an arm round them , not humiliated or " taken down a few dozen pegs". Shows a total lack of man management skills IMO

So the appropriate man management response to a player that has challenge your authority is to 'put an arm around them?'

 

[glorygloryeze]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Bale also credited Harry with improving his game. My point was that it took Bale to go to AVB to insist he played centrally. AVB didn't recognize this potential until Bale pointed it out to him.

Unless you can back this up with creditable quotes, you're again painting lovely pictures...:-"

 

[glorygloryeze]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

So the appropriate man management response to a player that has challenge your authority is to 'put an arm around them?'

I'd give up BOL; the Pirate has tied himself in knots on this one.

AVB = Satan in his eyes and no matter what he did with Ade it would have been WRING WRONG WRONG dontchaknow

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Bale also credited Harry with improving his game. My point was that it took Bale to go to AVB to insist he played centrally. AVB didn't recognize this potential until Bale pointed it out to him.

I think we're really reaching here if we're saying it was all Bale, that he had to bash it into the oblivious AVB's eyes and that the manager had nothing to do with it. Bale came to AVB, and said he wasn't as involved in the games as he would like to be. AVB listened (good man management I guess?) and worked with him on his game to the extent where he became the world's most expensive player. They developed such a strong relationship to the point where Bale made it fairly freaking obvious how much he respected AVB through his goal celebrations, and his support for him this season when the rumours were that AVB was done remained.

I don't understand how the Bale situation is being used to make any point. Well done to Bale for caring enough to seize an opportunity to better himself. Well done to AVB for taking it on board and working with him. It has nothing to do with Ade, who went to AVB, didn't like the answer he got and then publicly challenged the manager in front of the squad. Last season loads of players said that AVB's door was always open and that they could talk to him about anything. There's probably so many instances of discussions that were had that we aren't aware of, that lead to positive contributions on the pitch.

 

[glorygloryeze]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

It's called AVB-bashing-to-cover-for-TS-deficiencies, BOL

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I'd give up BOL; the Pirate has tied himself in knots on this one.

AVB = Satan in his eyes and no matter what he did with Ade it would have been WRING WRONG WRONG dontchaknow

I am actually genuinely confused now. AVB should have made it clear that he didn't want Ade (as if dropping him and making him train with the youth team wasn't making that clear) and should have tried to sell him (which obviously was attempted to have happen in the summer but AVB isn't the final decision maker on that, particularly when Ade's got a hefty contract he won't want to lose out on) and should have put an arm around him once his authority was publicly challenged. But he also should have played Ade because everyone knew from his form last season that he would have solved all our problem's this time around right?

And somehow Bale's ridiculous improvement is being used to hold something against AVB which I still haven't quite been able to figure out yet.

 

[glorygloryeze]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I am actually genuinely confused now. AVB should have made it clear that he didn't want Ade (as if dropping him and making him train with the youth team wasn't making that clear) and should have tried to sell him (which obviously was attempted to have happen in the summer but AVB isn't the final decision maker on that, particularly when Ade's got a hefty contract he won't want to lose out on) and should have put an arm around him once his authority was publicly challenged. But he also should have played Ade because everyone knew from his form last season that he would have solved all our problem's this time around right?

And somehow Bale's ridiculous improvement is being used to hold something against AVB which I still haven't quite been able to figure out yet.

Those who have been defending TS with every bit of zeal (including throwing as much mud as possible to put down the previous manager) are getting more desperate by the week as TS's deficiencies get too hard for them to defend.

So expect soon claims that AVB wanted to sell Bale in the summer he started so that he could buy Moutinho and another defensive midfielder.

Well, you heard it here first8-[

 

[Pirate55]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

You criticise on one hand that if his authority was undermined he should have gone to the board and said "sell him" or "he will not play a part in my squad". He did that.

But then you criticise him for not utilising him/getting the maximum resources from him? But then you said if his authority is undermined he should 'get rid'?

I'm confused? What do you criticise him for???
You can't criticise him for BOTH

(Unless of course in your mind AVB could do no right..)

Do you read my posts? I said he should have sold Ade in the summer. It was clear the were not compatible.

Is that clear enough for you?

Or are you still arguing AVB could do no wrong?

 

[Pirate55]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I think we're really reaching here if we're saying it was all Bale, that he had to bash it into the oblivious AVB's eyes and that the manager had nothing to do with it. Bale came to AVB, and said he wasn't as involved in the games as he would like to be. AVB listened (good man management I guess?) and worked with him on his game to the extent where he became the world's most expensive player. They developed such a strong relationship to the point where Bale made it fairly freaking obvious how much he respected AVB through his goal celebrations, and his support for him this season when the rumours were that AVB was done remained.

I don't understand how the Bale situation is being used to make any point. Well done to Bale for caring enough to seize an opportunity to better himself. Well done to AVB for taking it on board and working with him. It has nothing to do with Ade, who went to AVB, didn't like the answer he got and then publicly challenged the manager in front of the squad. Last season loads of players said that AVB's door was always open and that they could talk to him about anything. There's probably so many instances of discussions that were had that we aren't aware of, that lead to positive contributions on the pitch.

My point here is that it was Bale that had to go to AVB and initiate this switch, not the other way round. I haven't said AVB played no part in his development as you infer. The fact is that it was Harry that first played Bale centrally.

 

[glorygloryeze]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Do you read my posts? I said he should have sold Ade in the summer. It was clear the were not compatible.

Is that clear enough for you?

Or are you still arguing AVB could do no wrong?

And I state again, perhaps the board tried to sell him but couldn't get rid? So he then did WHAT YOU SAID HE SHOULD and decided not to use him in his squad.
But you then STILL criticise him.

No, it's YOU arguing whichever way it suits to say AVB can do no right.

 

[glorygloryeze]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

My point here is that it was Bale that had to go to AVB and initiate this switch, not the other way round. I haven't said AVB played no part in his development as you infer. The fact is that it was Harry that first played Bale centrally.

I ask again, WHERE are the quotes for this??

 

[Pirate55]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I am actually genuinely confused now. AVB should have made it clear that he didn't want Ade (as if dropping him and making him train with the youth team wasn't making that clear) and should have tried to sell him (which obviously was attempted to have happen in the summer but AVB isn't the final decision maker on that, particularly when Ade's got a hefty contract he won't want to lose out on) and should have put an arm around him once his authority was publicly challenged. But he also should have played Ade because everyone knew from his form last season that he would have solved all our problem's this time around right?

And somehow Bale's ridiculous improvement is being used to hold something against AVB which I still haven't quite been able to figure out yet.

The issues are completely different. In one, the manager agreed with the players suggestions. In the other, he did not. So there was no issue in the first scenario of his principles being opposed in any way. When they were challenged so publicly that it became a matter of principle/power/authority, then either the player or the manager has to go. AVB should have made this crystal clear to Ade - and the board has to back him on this or he is toast.

 

[Pirate55]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

And I state again, perhaps the board tried to sell him but couldn't get rid? So he then did WHAT YOU SAID HE SHOULD and decided not to use him in his squad.
But you then STILL criticise him.

No, it's YOU arguing whichever way it suits to say AVB can do no wrong.

But that's just it, he didn't banish Ade. he didnt say to him you are no longer any part if my plans. you can chose to stay and train with the reserves, or you can **** off.

Instead, he kept him in the squad, humiliated him, played him infrequently and in silly games. A real manager would have banished him forever no matter how good he is for the sake of the squad and his own authority. See what Wenger and Mancini did with the very same player.

This should have been a quitting issue for AVB if he had any gumption.

 

[Pirate55]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I ask again, WHERE are the quotes for this??

Generally accepted, see BOL above.

 

[glorygloryeze]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

But that's just it, he didn't banish Ade. he didnt say to him you are no longer any part if my plans. you can chose to stay and train with the reserves, or you can **** off.

Instead, he kept him in the squad, humiliated him, played him infrequently and in silly games. A real manager would have banished him forever no matter how good he is for the sake of the squad and his own authority. See what Wenger and Mancini did with the very same player.

This should have been a quitting issue for AVB if he had any gumption.

By all accounts in the end it was.

Actions speak louder than words: Ade was effectively banished.

You are still making it damned if he does and damned if he doesn't.

As I say no matter what AVB did you are finding a reason to criticise. It's clear enough from your posts that you have an anti-AVB agenda. Who cares really, when this is the TS thread.

I think I've said enough about this anyway.

Only thing I'm waiting for now is those quotes about Bale having to go t AVB to initiate him being played centrally. If you can't find such quotes well.....

 

[Pirate55]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

So the appropriate man management response to a player that has challenge your authority is to 'put an arm around them?'

No the appropriate response is to acknowledge that you can't work with said individual and get rid.